I hate every false way...

[Eventide]

Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

 

[Eventide]

Some people may think or believe that HATE is the opposite of love..

It's NOT..

HATE is an absolutely essential aspect of LOVE.. because to truly love something, you will hate what is contrary to it..

The true opposite of love imo is INDIFFERENCE.. and so many are completely indifferent to false teaching today... OH, it's no big deal, why can't we all just get along... that sort of thing..

There's no true love there imo.

 

[Mitspa]

Some people may think or believe that HATE is the opposite of love..

It's NOT..

HATE is an absolutely essential aspect of LOVE.. because to truly love something, you will hate what is contrary to it..

The true opposite of love imo is INDIFFERENCE.. and so many are completely indifferent to false teaching today... OH, it's no big deal, why can't we all just get along... that sort of thing..

There's no true love there imo.

I agree! but also like you and I have some different views, Love must be patient with those who are in error, dont you think?

Also, I do agree many we must save by fear

Jud 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jud 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Jud 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

 

[Eventide]

I agree! but also like you and I have some different views, Love must be patient with those who are in error, dont you think?

To a certain point, sure.. although imo it soon becomes obvious as to whether a person is open to the truth of the scriptures or if they're just pushing their own agenda so to speak..

How many people in here do we see day after day who can't speak of anything but Calvinism for example.. how that they're the elect, that the atonement of Christ was limited to them.. that they couldn't believe unless God allowed them to, etc etc..

Isn't it obvious where the heart is in these cases.. ?

Also, I do agree many we must save by fear

Fear of the LORD is the beginning of understanding..

 

[Mitspa]

To a certain point, sure.. although imo it soon becomes obvious as to whether a person is open to the truth of the scriptures or if they're just pushing their own agenda so to speak..

How many people in here do we see day after day who can't speak of anything but Calvinism for example.. how that they're the elect, that the atonement of Christ was limited to them.. that they couldn't believe unless God allowed them to, etc etc..

Isn't it obvious where the heart is in these cases.. ?

Yes! and I like you take the time to feel them out, so to say. I think even in those camps they may be some you have found sincere faith? I do believe they are many who seem to be as the scribes of the Lords days on the earth. They search scripturesfor in them they think they have eternal life, but they never seem to understand that its all about Him
Like the Jews of His day, they are full of pride and think the scriptures are about them? They seek to steal away His Glory by their doctrines

 

[Eventide]

Yes! and I like you take the time to feel them out, so to say. I think even in those camps they may be some you have found sincere faith? I do believe they are many who seem to be as the scribes of the Lords days on the earth. They search scripturesfor in them they think they have eternal life, but they never seem to understand that its all about Him
Like the Jews of His day, they are full of pride and think the scriptures are about them? They seek to steal away His Glory by their doctrines

WE can't judge anyone's salvation, although we should certainly speak out against any false teaching.. and the Lord tells us plainly that many can't believe because they receive honour of one another... they'd rather listen to the so called brilliant scholars of the day rather than to the simplicity which is in Christ Jesus our LORD.

 

[Sinthesis]

I suspect that sometimes God uses even 'brilliant scholars' to convey the simplicity which is in Christ Jesus our LORD, through all the noise that less-than-brilliant scholars put out. That said, presenting truth to the deceived should not be done in the spirit of rabid zealotry, rather with gentleness and respect.

 

[Eventide]

I suspect that sometimes God uses even 'brilliant scholars' to convey the simplicity which is in Christ Jesus our LORD, through all the noise that less-than-brilliant scholars put out. That said, presenting truth to the deceived should not be done in the spirit of rabid zealotry, rather with gentleness and respect.

I enjoy commentary as much as the next guy although it's obviously important to verify things which men say to what God says in His word.

I agree.. It gets tiring at times with the 'free will religion is the man of sin' type threads etc..

 

[Eventide]

One thing that can help with reading commentaries from men is Paul's statement in Romans 3.. it's within the context of the ORACLES OF GOD being committed to the nation of Israel..

Let GOD be TRUE, but EVERY MAN a liar..

IMO what men say concerning the oracles of God should line up with the rest of scripture.. and that is simply the maximum (if I can use that word) GLORIFICATION of God's beloved SON.

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

 

[Eventide]

If any man speak..

And that reminds me of what the Apostle Peter says..

If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God...

IMO that's perhaps the most amazing use of the word as...

 

[Eventide]

Majority rules

I'd like to ask a favor of every conservative Christian here, and have you consider what I believe is an extremely important issue with respect to the upcoming presidential election for our country.

IMO it almost doesn't matter WHO you vote for as much as what PARTY you cast your vote for... And the reason should be obvious.. Because the majority PARTY rules in this nation of ours.

I know that many Christian voters are likely to cast their vote for the best man so to speak... But that's not always the best use of your vote..

Again, here's why...

Let's say that Christian wants to vote for an INDEPENDENT candidate because of their conservative views on many of the things that are important to you... There's certainly nothing wrong with thinking that way although you certainly could also be throwing your vote away and helping the liberal left get exactly what they want... Majority and control.

Here's why..

There is not a snowballs chance in hell of an independent candidate getting elected. Period.

Think about it... All you're actually doing is taking a conservative vote away from the party which normally votes more conservative... The Republican party.

All I'm asking is that you think about this if you're considering voting for an independent candidate in this extremely important upcoming election.

 

[smaller]

Kinda makes ya wonder why Jesus didn't stick around in His post rez body, and, you know, set things straight.

I'd suggest that 'Mormon' choices aren't going to be much different than liberal choices.

s

 

[Eventide]

Kinda makes ya wonder why Jesus didn't stick around in His post rez body, and, you know, set things straight.

I can surely see that DAY coming when He does set things straight.. The Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ.

I'd suggest that 'Mormon' choices aren't going to be much different than liberal choices.

s

I'm not so sure about that... But the point is that hopefully people consider the simple fact of the matter that it's either going to be the Democratic PARTY or the Republican PARTY.. And whoever has MAJORITY is going to have CONTROL.

It's practically all that matters... And there's no doubt in my mind that Rep are GENERALLY more conservative than Dems.

 

[smaller]

I can surely see that DAY coming when He does set things straight.. The Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ.

I hold the same hope fwiw. That leads me to try to understand the 'current' dilemma's and the Divine Reasons for the continuing dilemmas.

I'm not so sure about that... But the point is that hopefully people consider the simple fact of the matter that it's either going to be the Democratic PARTY or the Republican PARTY.. And whoever has MAJORITY is going to have CONTROL.

It's practically all that matters... And there's no doubt in my mind that Rep are GENERALLY more conservative than Dems.

Let's see? Vote for a war monger (greatly increased defense spending to protect .corp's resource stripping of the world and potentially kill and displace a lot of people around the globe) but he's pro life?

nah...no choices there for me. I'll stick to my first hope above without much hope at all for the world as it is currently.

Morality is something each of us individually contend with. It is not easily forced upon the lawless masses and when it is it will usually result in even more problems.

There is a more interesting principle when it comes to law enforcing morality. I've observed this Divine Principle to be quite sound in it's workings and intentions:

Romans 7:13
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

When law is thrown upon the workings of lawlessness it's like throwing gasoline on a fire. And in fact that is exactly what God meant to happen.

s

 

[Eventide]

I hold the same hope fwiw. That leads me to try to understand the 'current' dilemma's and the Divine Reasons for the continuing dilemmas.

Let's see? Vote for a war monger (greatly increased defense spending to protect .corp's resource stripping of the world and potentially kill and displace a lot of people around the globe) but he's pro life?

nah...no choices there for me. I'll stick to my first hope above without much hope at all for the world as it is currently.

Morality is something each of us individually contend with. It is not easily forced upon the lawless masses and when it is it will usually result in even more problems.

There is a more interesting principle when it comes to law enforcing morality. I've observed this Divine Principle to be quite sound in it's workings and intentions:

Romans 7:13
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

When law is thrown upon the workings of lawlessness it's like throwing gasoline on a fire. And in fact that is exactly what God meant to happen.

s

So you don't vote.. that's understandable.. this isn't for you then.. it's intended for those who do vote and might vote conservatively but not necessarily for the party which we will all ultimately be subject to etc.

Not that difficult to understand imo, although perhaps important if independents take ~5 % of the votes which are generally conservative.

 

[childeye]

I agree.. It gets tiring at times with the 'free will religion is the man of sin' type threads etc..

Respectfully, to me freewill religion is a relative term. Hence to some every false way is not at the behest of a free will for the false way entertains only the the proud and ignorant. While for others the false way is the opportunity for a freewill to exist. The terms are both therefore relative to God, for we are all subject to the highest power of Truth one way or the other. Without God there is no false way nor true way.

 

[Eventide]

An argument from silence...

Respectfully, to me freewill is a relative term.

Typically free will discussions are built upon a false premise which states that man in His Adamic state (or nature), can not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ...

Therefore, many teach that man must be first regenerated so that he will believe..

Strangely enough though... Many of those who teach that regeneration comes first can't show when regeneration actually takes place in a person... and they typically reject the biblical examples provided as regeneration... For example Eph 1:13 which speaks of God sealing a person with the Holy Spirit of promise after they hear the truth and believe.. Or 1 Cor 12:13 which speaks of our being baptized into that one body by the same Spirit.

All because of the false premise to begin with... That man can't believe on the Lord Jesus Christ unless he is regenerated first.

It's the old saying... One bad thing leads to another...

 

[childeye]

Re: An argument from silence...

Typically free will discussions are built upon a false premise which states that man in His Adamic state (or nature), can not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ...

Therefore, many teach that man must be first regenerated so that he will believe..

Strangely enough though... Many of those who teach that regeneration comes first can't show when regeneration actually takes place in a person... and they typically reject the biblical examples provided as regeneration... For example Eph 1:13 which speaks of God sealing a person with the Holy Spirit of promise after they hear the truth and believe.. Or 1 Cor 12:13 which speaks of our being baptized into that one body by the same Spirit.

All because of the false premise to begin with... That man can't believe on the Lord Jesus Christ unless he is regenerated first.

It's the old saying... One bad thing leads to another...

As usual I see two lines of reasoning wherein the terms change accordingly. I'm sorry, I can't help it. There are semantics. For what if Adam first believed in God to begin with, without having to witness the Christ? And by that I mean Adam trusted God and knew not otherwise. For what if Adam himself was the very image of God and knew God, yet he was persuaded to doubt God by doubting himself? Then it could be said that Adam didn't actually need to be regenerated before being persuaded to doubt, since he was perfect the way he was made. Yet he doubted this, which means he had to be regenerated. And this is what I think is meant by a defiled conscience.

And yet in the bigger picture, is it not inevitable that God would someday become suspect according to the pride that began in Satan? Are we not become Satan's children when we presume to doubt the Character of God?

So how does a man believe in the Christ without believing the Word of God embedded in the heart? Why do some men see the righteousness of God and others see a fool? For some did not believe and even now do not see. I fail to see how any man could not believe once he has seen. There is therefore a blindness and this is why the Gospel makes the blind seeing and the seeing blind. There, I hope I said that right.

 

[Eventide]

Re: An argument from silence...

As usual I see two lines of reasoning wherein the terms change accordingly. I'm sorry, I can't help it. There are semantics. For what if Adam first believed in God to begin with, without having to witness the Christ? For what if Adam himself was the very image of God and knew God, yet he was persuaded to doubt God by doubting himself? Then it could be said that Adam didn't actually need to be regenerated since he was perfect the way he was made. Yet he doubted this which means he had to be regenerated. And this is what I think is meant by a defiled conscience.

And yet in the bigger picture, is it not inevitable that God would someday become suspect according to the pride that began in Satan? Are we not become Satan's children when we presume to doubt the Character of God?

If you'd like to call it semantics then that's fine... I see it as a distinct dividing line amongst Christians today.. Because the simple fact of the matter is that many are being taught falsely that man can not believe unless he is regenerated first... That's the bottom line in these conversations... That's the basis..

Another thing which I know that you disagree with is the simple fact that Adam was not deceived, he was disobedient.. The woman was deceived but Adam was not.. It was outright disobedience and therefore the judgment fell upon him... For death has passed upon all men..

What's your pov.. Can a person in their Adamic state believe on the Lord Jesus Christ ? Or do you believe that regeneration must come first..?

If the latter, then perhaps you can show us a biblical example of a person being regenerated and then believing the gospel.

 

[childeye]

Re: An argument from silence...

If you'd like to call it semantics then that's fine... I see it as a distinct dividing line amongst Christians today.. Because the simple fact of the matter is that many are being taught falsely that man can not believe unless he is regenerated first... That's the bottom line in these conversations... That's the basis..

Another thing which I know that you disagree with is the simple fact that Adam was not deceived, he was disobedient.. The woman was deceived but Adam was not.. It was outright disobedience and therefore the judgment fell upon him... For death has passed upon all men..

What's your pov.. Can a person in their Adamic state believe on the Lord Jesus Christ ? Or do you believe that regeneration must come first..?

If the latter, then perhaps you can show us a biblical example of a person being regenerated and then believing the gospel.

First off I must say there is a dividing line, two sides seeing one Truth from opposite perspectives. The Spirit of the devil plays both ends against the middle, while the Spirit of Christ draws both ends towards the middle. Hence there is a point at the center of the cross that is maintained by loving your enemies. The man who sees both sides is a balanced man, unfortunately what he sees is difficult to convey because of the semantics that occur because of these conditions. For all terms are reversed when viewed from the opposite side.

I'm struggling with the terms here. When I consider the word regeneration, it seems to mean the renewing of the mind which would come after the revelation of the Christ. However if that word regeneration is being applied to describe the action of God's Word in a man's heart placed there by grace which allows him to believe in the revelation, then that is a different thing.

I believe in both scenarios putting semantics aside. I think God does the choosing overall and he chooses the lowly things and the humble things, and the weak things. Is that conditional grace? Well yes in one way it is, but those conditions are not in a man's power to control. Perhaps these lowly were not always so, or perhaps we are all a product of circumstance. There were twelve sons of Abraham and all had their own personality traits for better or for worse.