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Sinthesis

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70AD was the end... Everything was fulfilled
No it wasn't. Why would you even say that?
However, I bet it sure seemed like the end to the inhabitants of Jerusalem at the time. If 'Hereditary Israel' was so blind about Christ, why wouldn't they also be blind about their future without a temple.
 

Eventide

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70AD was the end... Everything was fulfilled
No it wasn't. Why would you even say that?
However, I bet it sure seemed like the end to the inhabitants of Jerusalem at the time. If 'Hereditary Israel' was so blind about Christ, why wouldn't they also be blind about their future without a temple.
Amen ! Preach it brother !
 

reba

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Was the Temple destroyed in 70 AD?

If so, Did God use the Romans to do so?

Did God just let it happen

Could God have stopped the destruction of the city and Temple

If in your opinion ( any reader) God could have stopped the destruction why did He choose not to?or choose to?

I find it totally sad that so many many folks perished. The same kind of sadness as the loss of life at the time of 'Noah's' flood....

When I see the world today I pray for His return to come quickly. That is in His Glorious Hands!
 

reba

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One thing is certain...

In the regeneration, when the Son of man sits in the throne of His glory, His Apostles will sit upon twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

This is clearly future so it means that this is post resurrection of the dead.
Actually it means that the OT is interpreted in light of the NT. Thus the actions and beliefs of the OT covenant people are judged by the standards of the NT covenant people, Christianity. As Christians we do this already.
And you believe this simply because you believe that The Lord Jesus Christ returned in 70AD...

Right ?

And I must conclude this simply because this verse is contextually tied to The Lord coming and then sitting upon the throne of His glory, in the regeneration.
Eventide ... Having only scanned (not read each and every post in this thread ) I find the first mention of 70 Ad to be post # 85 . I could be wrong if so please let me know....

Seems to me you took you thread to 70 AD . Please slow the sarcasm down a bit or I will start deleting. Moderator
 

n2thelight

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Most Hebrews not Jews

Beginning with Adam, we have the start, not only of chronology, but of the genealogical tables of the Bible. There are ten generations from Adam to Noah, and ten generations from Shem (Noah’s son) to Abraham. Eber or Heber was in the fourth generation from Shem. All of the descendants of Heber were Hebrews. Abraham was six generations later. He, therefore, was a Hebrew. The Hebrews were not Jews, because Judah, from whom the Jews descended, was not yet born. When the time came that there were Jews on the earth, of course, they also were Hebrews - a very small portion of them - but the great mass of Hebrews were not Jews, and are not today. Let us closely follow the facts.

"Abraham had eight sons. One son was Ishmael whose mother was Hagar. One son was Isaac, whose mother was Sarah. After Sarah’s death, Abraham married Keturah, and she bore unto him six sons. Abraham, being a Hebrew, or descendant of Heber, his descendants would of course be Hebrews, and their descendants would also be Hebrews, but their descendants are not Jews. If they are, then Ishmael would have been a Jew and that would make the Arabs Jews. . . It would be foolish to declare that they are Jews, although as the descendants of Abraham, they are of the stock of Heber, and therefore Hebrews. The same reasoning applies to Isaac, Isaac was a Hebrew, the son of Abraham. Now Isaac had two sons, Esau and Jacob. If Isaac was a Jew, then both Esau and Jacob would be Jews. This would make the descendants of Esau also Jews, but the descendants of Esau became the Edomites, later the Turks; also the Pharaohs of the oppression were of the Esau line , but none of these people are Jews."

To call Abraham a Jew would make him a descendant of Isaac’s yet unborn grandson Judah. The Tribe of Judah had no existence on earth during the time of Abraham and Isaac. If Isaac was a Jew, then surely his twin sons, Jacob and Esau would be Jews. We all know that Esau, Jacob’s twin brother, became the progenitor of the Turks, as they are known today. If Jacob was a Jew, how could it be that his twin brother would not be, since they were both born of the same father and mother?


Descendants do not name their Ancestors
Jacob, one of these twin brothers had 12 sons, which came from four different mothers. None of these 12 sons were Jews. One of his 12 sons was Judah, but in the sense in which we use the word "Jew" today, the term cannot be applied to Judah, for "he was not a Jew," because of the fact that they whom we call Jews today have certain characteristics and are racially a type that came into existence hundreds of years after Israel left Egypt. This racial type or remnant we know as the Jews is only a small portion of the descendants of Judah, who was only one of the 12 sons of Jacob. There are no Jews among any of the descendants of Jacob’s other 11 sons. Now Judah had [three sons Er, and Onan, and Shelah, by his wife, and] twins by Tamar. The descendants of one son, Zarah, peopled the shores of the Mediterranean, leaving Egypt before the exodus of the children of Israel. Pharez, the twin brother of Zarah, became the progenitor of the tribe of Judah. The tribe of Judah descending from Pharez was divided by the Lord into two Houses – the "House of David" and the "House of Judah."

Abraham was the father of Isaac; Isaac was the father of Jacob; Jacob, who was later named "Israel," became the father of Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphthali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph and Benjamin. The 12 sons each became the head of a Tribe called after his own personal name. From Judah, the fourth son of Jacob, are descended the Jews; the word "Jew" being simply an abbreviation of the name "Judah." A glance at the genealogy will show that it is impossible for Abraham, or Isaac, or Jacob, to have been Jews. Only the descendants of Judah – those coming after him, could be called by his name – not his ancestors. No one had ever been named "Judah" until more than 200 years after Abraham was named. Suppose your parents gave you the name of Charles. That does not name your ancestors, who lived two hundred years before you, Charles. And naming Jacob’s fourth son Judah would not make Abraham, his great grandfather, a Jew.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/nl479.htm
 

n2thelight

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The regathering of Israel and Judah is still future

"Thus says The Lord God: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel associated with him; and I will join with it the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand. When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes, then say to them, Thus says The Lord God: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all sides, and bring them to their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. They shall not defile themselves any more with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions; but I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God." (Ezekiel 37:19-23 RSV)

Future!!!!!
 

jasoncran

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most jews say that about Abraham because they claim to be like him. that is why. remember isreal for the most part stop being like Abraham after the split of the kingdom of isreal into the north and the southern kingdoms. Judah had the temple and and also the godly kings.
 

Sinthesis

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The regathering of Israel and Judah is still future

"Thus says The Lord God: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel associated with him; and I will join with it the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand. When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes, then say to them, Thus says The Lord God: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all sides, and bring them to their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. They shall not defile themselves any more with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions; but I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God." (Ezekiel 37:19-23 RSV)

Future!!!!!
This is past. It is described in Ezra and Nehemiah.
 

Deborah13

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[MENTION=11841]jasoncran[/MENTION] , Sometimes I feel like Alice in Wonderland (no smart remarks for the gallery please), God sure makes studying fun. Today I got off on a rabbit trail, following the name of an author on another board about his book, which lead to a Baptist site with an article about Johnathan Cahn who wrote, The Harbinger.
A critic of Cahn had posted a youtube video of Cahn using the Zohar (Kabblah) as a "hostile witness" for the two comings of the Messiah Jesus, in the Bible. Cahn, was explaining how in Zohar they teach two Messiahs would come, one from David and the other would be Joseph. Well, that was just too strange. On that board where I started there was another poster in an eschatology thread teaching this same thing and other strange teachings. Everybody was asking where he was getting these things from, and asking if he was a Christian.

Then this is really what I wanted to share. I watched another video of Cahn, using the Talmud as a "hostile witness" for the Bible and Messiah. In the short video he only mentioned two things.
The rabbis say in the Talmud that strange things happened in the temple before it was destroyed in 70AD. There were seven lights in the temple. One lamp, the west one, was kept burning by the fire from the burnt offerings altar. They would light the other lamps from that one.
That lamp went out and they couldn't relight it. They said that that had happened about 40 yrs. before the temple was destroyed.
Then there was the two lot stones. On Yon Kipper, they would draw a stone with the right hand and then the left. One stone was mark for the sacrifice goat and the other for the scapegoat. If the sacrifice stone came up in the right hand they considered that to be a good sign from God for the atonement of the people. It started happening that year after year, the scapegoat stone would come up in the right hand. This start happening about 40 yrs before the temple was destroyed.
I remember that Josephus mentioned some things happening in the temple.
There is a CD or DVD of the full teaching from the Talmud that tells about other things.
Makes me wonder, how many Jews read what has been written??
 

2468justme

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Who is Israel-?

(Deu 30:18 KJV) I denounce unto you [Israel] this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan togo to possess it.

(Deu 30:19 KJV) I call heaven and earth to record this day against you [Israel], that I haveset before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life,that both thou and thy seed may live:

(Ezek 21:24 KJV) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye [Israel] have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in allyour doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.

In the ancient text of God He calls out ISRAEL and recognizes who and what he is

(Ezek 21:25KJV) And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,

(Ezek 21:31 KJV) AndI will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy.

(Ezek 21:32 KJV) Thou shaltbe for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thoushalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.

Correct me if I am wrong but the above is scripture, I did not make it up
 
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n2thelight

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Who is Israel-?

(Deu 30:18 KJV) I denounce unto you [Israel] this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan togo to possess it.

(Deu 30:19 KJV) I call heaven and earth to record this day against you [Israel], that I haveset before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life,that both thou and thy seed may live:

(Ezek 21:24 KJV) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye [Israel] have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in allyour doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.

In the ancient text of God He calls out ISRAEL and recognizes who and what he is

(Ezek 21:25KJV) And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,

(Ezek 21:31 KJV) AndI will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath, and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy.

(Ezek 21:32 KJV) Thou shaltbe for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thoushalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.

Correct me if I am wrong but the above is scripture, I did not make it up

In your scripture of Deuteronomy,you left out a key verse which contains a very important word,in fact this word is often missed alot,throughout the Word of God

Deuteronomy 30:16 "In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it."

Deuteronomy 30:17 "But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;"

 

2468justme

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Thank you for adding those verses. It says a lot and all you have to do is listen and learn. In one verse God says he will make them flourish and they will multiply and so on and so on. And then in the verses I posted above it states just the opposite. They will be few in number and forgotten. How many are there today compared to way back then, have they multiplied and abound or not as compared to the rest of us?
 
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Eventide

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The destruction of Jerusalem...

Does anyone know what the Passover was all about-?
Probably the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70... that's basically what all end time events are about... right ?
 

Deborah13

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Does anyone know what the Passover was all about-?
"The eight-day festival of Passover is celebrated in the early spring, from the 15th through the 22nd of the Hebrew month of Nissan. It commemorates the emancipation of the Israelites from slavery in ancient Egypt." http://www.chabad.org/holidays/passover/pesach_cdo/aid/871715/jewish/What-Is-Passover.htm
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/holidaya.html

Both of these sites will give you what you want to know.
 

2468justme

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The question about Passover was a trick question so that I could post the following.

Were the Israelites really slaves in Egypt-?

Before this moment I had always believed that the Israelites were slaves and being slaves they would beliving in slave quarters and not among the Egyptian elite but I was wrong so who were they really-?

As a Christian I amintrigued by the Passover passages in the Bible and wanting to understand it better so I reviewed the Bible and what it said. First I realized that this occurrence took place between the Egyptians and the Israelites and had nothing to do with me, a Christian, still I read on.

Before this moment I had always believed that the Israelites were slaves and being slaves they would beliving in slave quarters and not among the Egyptian elite but I was wrong. And the passage below proves my point. But before continuing this revelation let me clarify something. Passover means the Lord will Passover Israelite houses that are marked and kill the first born Egyptians within houses that are not marked. Below is the instruction on how to mark your house so it will be Passover--

(Exo12:7 KJV) And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two sideposts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

The above passage would suggest that Egyptian and Israelite houses had two side posts on the upper door postand the only way to distinguish them apart is to do the following---

(Exo12:22 KJV) And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood thatis in the basin, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the bloodthat is in the basin; and none of you shall go out at the door of his houseuntil the morning.

Again I am perplexed by the above passage because if the Israelites were slaves how is it that they were living in houses built just like the Egyptians houses and they all looked the same-? And the Egyptian houses were mixed with the Israelite houses where the Lord would skip over the Israelite houses to attack the Egyptian ones--?

Pleasecorrect me if I am wrong but how is it that slaves lived in the same houses asthe Egyptians did-?

Then this act in itself perplexed me even more because surly the Lord knew which houses were Egyptian and which were not so why have them marked-? The Lord knew what He was doing; did He really need such detailed instructions--?

But then again one could say the marking process was not for the Lord’s sake, it was for the Israelites. It could have been a form of acknowledgment to the Lord proving that yes, I am an Israelite and yes I obey your command for you see my door is marked too.
 
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