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Bible Study If Baptism Means Being Reborn, Why Do Christians Still Sin?

for_his_glory

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wondering

Sorry about the length of this post, but need to explain water/word.

I think our indifference is in the word "water" in John 3:5 as I see the word water meaning living water as the word being living water.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

If you compare John 3:5 with 1 John 5:5-8 water means word as in the word being the living water (John 4:9-15) as in the Father, the word (living water Jesus) and the Holy Spirit.
The three that bear witness is Holy Spirit, Gods living word, and the blood of Jesus who made atonement for sin that we can be reconciled back to the Father.

Everything from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 is all Gods word and Holy Spirit dwelling in or falling on and come to Earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus. It's all Gods grace freely given to all who will believe in that faith that is Christ Jesus as He spoke Gods word (John 12:44-50 living water) and the Prophets and Apostles wrote and testified of what Jesus taught verbally.

It's Gods word that we are made righteous through Him, sanctified, justified and made Holy before Him. No dirty river water can save us, but is only an outward appearance to others that we have been washed clean (made righteous before God) by the blood of the Lamb and the renewing through the Holy Spirit.

The Jerusalem Bible
1 John 5:6 Jesus Christ who came by water and blood, not with water only, but with water and blood with the Spirit as another witness since the Spirit is truth 7 so that there are three witnesses, 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood and all three of them agree

KJV
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Literal water has nothing to do with salvation as Jesus came by the foretold word of the Prophets, sent by the Father, and signified by the Holy Spirit that lighted upon Him during John's water baptism for the remission of sins, Matthew 3:11-17. Three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, the water (word) and the blood. Three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost.


The more I think about "born again" Nicodemus had no understanding as even many today would ask the same question "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

Jesus goes on to tell him "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Paul understood it was not by water baptism (BTW baptism is not mentioned in John 3:5), but by the word of God that we are sanctified, which means set apart and made holy. We being the church of God have been made clean by His word as we are washed in the blood of the Lamb.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Again Paul and also Peter gives us the understanding that being born again/born from above is not by actual water which would be a work of our own righteousness, but regeneration (new Spiritual life) that comes by God's mercy through His spoken word and Spirit (Holy Spirit).

IMO it doesn't matter if we say born again or born from above, but that we understand it is by God's grace through faith, which is Christ Jesus and His finished works on the cross that we are cleansed by the blood of the Lamb and our spirit renewed by the very Spirit of God, (Holy Spirit)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Per the conversation Nicodemus and Jesus were discussing in John 3:9, 10 here are a few more OT verses that parallel being born again that Nicodemus should have known, but probably not emphasized as much since Jesus had to explain it to him.

1 Samuel 10:6 And the spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

Job 25: 4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Some verses on living water being the word. John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22

There are around 1526 instances of living water in the Bible.
 

wondering

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wondering

Sorry about the length of this post, but need to explain water/word.

I think our indifference is in the word "water" in John 3:5 as I see the word water meaning living water as the word being living water.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 John 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

If you compare John 3:5 with 1 John 5:5-8 water means word as in the word being the living water (John 4:9-15) as in the Father, the word (living water Jesus) and the Holy Spirit.
The three that bear witness is Holy Spirit, Gods living word, and the blood of Jesus who made atonement for sin that we can be reconciled back to the Father.

Everything from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21 is all Gods word and Holy Spirit dwelling in or falling on and come to Earth in the form of a man in Christ Jesus. It's all Gods grace freely given to all who will believe in that faith that is Christ Jesus as He spoke Gods word (John 12:44-50 living water) and the Prophets and Apostles wrote and testified of what Jesus taught verbally.

It's Gods word that we are made righteous through Him, sanctified, justified and made Holy before Him. No dirty river water can save us, but is only an outward appearance to others that we have been washed clean (made righteous before God) by the blood of the Lamb and the renewing through the Holy Spirit.

The Jerusalem Bible
1 John 5:6 Jesus Christ who came by water and blood, not with water only, but with water and blood with the Spirit as another witness since the Spirit is truth 7 so that there are three witnesses, 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood and all three of them agree

KJV
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Literal water has nothing to do with salvation as Jesus came by the foretold word of the Prophets, sent by the Father, and signified by the Holy Spirit that lighted upon Him during John's water baptism for the remission of sins, Matthew 3:11-17. Three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, the water (word) and the blood. Three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost.


The more I think about "born again" Nicodemus had no understanding as even many today would ask the same question "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

Jesus goes on to tell him "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Paul understood it was not by water baptism (BTW baptism is not mentioned in John 3:5), but by the word of God that we are sanctified, which means set apart and made holy. We being the church of God have been made clean by His word as we are washed in the blood of the Lamb.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Again Paul and also Peter gives us the understanding that being born again/born from above is not by actual water which would be a work of our own righteousness, but regeneration (new Spiritual life) that comes by God's mercy through His spoken word and Spirit (Holy Spirit).

IMO it doesn't matter if we say born again or born from above, but that we understand it is by God's grace through faith, which is Christ Jesus and His finished works on the cross that we are cleansed by the blood of the Lamb and our spirit renewed by the very Spirit of God, (Holy Spirit)

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Per the conversation Nicodemus and Jesus were discussing in John 3:9, 10 here are a few more OT verses that parallel being born again that Nicodemus should have known, but probably not emphasized as much since Jesus had to explain it to him.

1 Samuel 10:6 And the spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.

Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

Job 25: 4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Some verses on living water being the word. John 4:4-26; 7:37-39; 12:44-50; Ephesians 5:26; 1 John 5:5-8; Jeremiah 17:13; Zechariah 14:8, 9; Rev 21:6-8; Ezekiel 47:22

There are around 1526 instances of living water in the Bible.
You say water has nothing to do with salvation, but Jesus said to do this and everything He said we are to do for our salvation...including baptism.

Baptism is intricately bound with salvation. By this I do NOT mean that I'm one of those persons that believes one is lost if not baptized or that it's baptism that saves.

I don't believe EVERY WORD in the bible is from God. Some may not accept this,,,but some laws in the Torah is clearly not from a supreme being and Jesus did correct some of those laws...like the one Moses declared regarding certificates of divorce which God abhors.

This does NOT mean I don't believe the bible is the word of God...it most certainly is God's revelation to us and His words to us.

As to the word, which I understand you mean the bible (??) being the water mentioned...I have heard this before but don't see how anyone could come up with this idea. I know that this is taught.

You said to compare two scriptures:

John 3:5
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


and

1 John 5:5-8
5Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? 6This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.


I've always only heard of two possible meaning for the word WATER in John 3:5
One is amneotic fluid
One is Baptismal water

I do believe that the water being mentioned in 1 John 5:5-8 is baptismal water. Jesus was confirmed by the spirit when He was baptized.
Mathew 3:16

In this way Jesus came by WATER....
The crucifixion was the BLOOD...
The Holy Spirit as His baptism is THE SPIRIT.

We could go through each of the other verses you posted,,,but there are too many for this one post.

I do believe Jesus is the LIVING WATER....
But I do not believe The Word and Water are the same.
 

for_his_glory

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You say water has nothing to do with salvation, but Jesus said to do this and everything He said we are to do for our salvation...including baptism.

Baptism is intricately bound with salvation. By this I do NOT mean that I'm one of those persons that believes one is lost if not baptized or that it's baptism that saves.

I don't believe EVERY WORD in the bible is from God. Some may not accept this,,,but some laws in the Torah is clearly not from a supreme being and Jesus did correct some of those laws...like the one Moses declared regarding certificates of divorce which God abhors.

This does NOT mean I don't believe the bible is the word of God...it most certainly is God's revelation to us and His words to us.

As to the word, which I understand you mean the bible (??) being the water mentioned...I have heard this before but don't see how anyone could come up with this idea. I know that this is taught.

You said to compare two scriptures:

John 3:5
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


and

1 John 5:5-8
5Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? 6This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.


I've always only heard of two possible meaning for the word WATER in John 3:5
One is amneotic fluid
One is Baptismal water

I do believe that the water being mentioned in 1 John 5:5-8 is baptismal water. Jesus was confirmed by the spirit when He was baptized.
Mathew 3:16

In this way Jesus came by WATER....
The crucifixion was the BLOOD...
The Holy Spirit as His baptism is THE SPIRIT.

We could go through each of the other verses you posted,,,but there are too many for this one post.

I do believe Jesus is the LIVING WATER....
But I do not believe The Word and Water are the same.
I think many things were added to the 613 laws by man if you read them all some sound pretty silly.

Where does Jesus say to be baptized in water unless you mean John 3:5 as that is what I will discuss.

Baptism is intricately bound with God's plan of salvation. But, by the pure water being the living word of God as we are immersed and covered by the blood of Jesus who once and for was made the final blood sacrifice for all sin. It is only Jesus who can purify us for regeneration which is the Spiritual rebirth/born again from above He was teaching Nicodemus in John 3:5-7.

John's baptism was for repentance only as Christ had not come yet nor the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. "Repent, prepare ye the way of the Lord make your path straight to receive the coming of Messiah". The actual water was a foreshadowing of being cleansed by the blood of the Lamb being the pure water (living word) that washes away our sin once and for all, Hebrews 10:1-22.

River water is not the pure water that scripture speaks of that cleasnses us, but only an outward proclamation of an inward conversion as you show others you have repented and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior receiving the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38, Acts 10:44-48. No one should forbid anyone from being immersed in water if they want to like that of Philip and the Ethiopian in Acts 8:26-40, but the pure water is the blood of Jesus in whom we come to by faith as faith comes by hearing and hearing by the preaching of the word (living water).

I was always taught that water baptism saved us, but I felt there had to be more than being dunked in water. The more I thought about it and asked the Holy Spirit to give me understanding all I received from the Holy Spirit was two words "water and word" so I started searching the scriptures and this is how I came to my understanding of being baptized.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but to study the full context of the scriptures on this subject apart from what has been indoctrinated in our minds.
 

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