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If I ask someone for a gift, did I earn it, or work for it when I got it handed to me?

Who thinks asking for a gift, when is received worked for it, and earned it?

  • Worked for it, and earned it!

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • Didn't work for it, and didn't earn it!

    Votes: 11 91.7%

  • Total voters
    12

llama

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We just ask for his free gift of salvation and receive it. Who here thinks if you ask someone to give you their brand new Lamborghini as a gift is working for it? Who here thinks the person asking for a Lamborghini as a gift worked for it and earned it when he received the lamborghini for free, to keep forever! Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. For whosoever shall call upon THE NAME OF THE LORD shall be saved” (Romans 10:13) Call here is the word meaning believe. Feel free to explain why you feel you earned, or worked so hard for that brand spanking new lamborghini after you asked for it, and was freely given to you!
 

Eugene

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We just ask for his free gift of salvation and receive it. Who here thinks if you ask someone to give you their brand new Lamborghini as a gift is working for it? Who here thinks the person asking for a Lamborghini as a gift worked for it and earned it when he received the lamborghini for free, to keep forever! Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. For whosoever shall call upon THE NAME OF THE LORD shall be saved” (Romans 10:13) Call here is the word meaning believe. Feel free to explain why you feel you earned, or worked so hard for that brand spanking new lamborghini after you asked for it, and was freely given to you!
I would instead why you believe that even though you evidently have eternal life that works of righteousness have no part in our lives. On top of that why you think that one of the body of Christ might not be saved by the exhibition of their faith?

What do you think of the following scripture? Which one would not be saved; the one that eats, or the one that doesn't?
Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
 

llama

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Yes
They should be part of our lives, but counting on them towards getting into Heaven is trusting in your works instead of Jesus for salvation, He said straight is the gate, narrow is the way, few be there that find it. 1/3rd of the world claims to be a christian, according to Jesus when he says few be there that find it can't be 2 billion people, that is not few it's plenty
 

llama

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(Post removed. A&T guidelines state in part: "Subsequent responses either opposing or adding additional information should include references to specific supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation of the member's understanding of how that scripture applies." Simply referencing one verse that does not even say what you claim it says and not supporting any of your other points does not meet this requirement. Obadiah.)
 
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Eugene

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I'll attempt to ask this a different way. If the eternal life given me is eternal, how can it no longer be God's own life everlasting if it can be taken because I don't do things exactly right?
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
 

dadof10

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Do we have to "ask" and "recieve" to get salvation? If we don't ask and recieve, do we still get it? Are these merely conditions for acceptance or are we EARNING salvation by asking and recieving, which is obeying God?

Now, let's take the words "charitable acts" and "baptism" and substitute them for "ask" and "recieve".

Do we have to do charitable acts and be baptized to get salvation? If we don't act charitably and be baptized, do we still get it? Are these merely conditions for acceptance or are we EARNING salvation by acting charitably and being baptized, which is obeying God?
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
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We just ask for his free gift of salvation and receive it. Who here thinks if you ask someone to give you their brand new Lamborghini as a gift is working for it? Who here thinks the person asking for a Lamborghini as a gift worked for it and earned it when he received the lamborghini for free, to keep forever! Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. For whosoever shall call upon THE NAME OF THE LORD shall be saved” (Romans 10:13) Call here is the word meaning believe. Feel free to explain why you feel you earned, or worked so hard for that brand spanking new lamborghini after you asked for it, and was freely given to you!
14 Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel."
Mark 1:15

Obeying the Gospel by repenting, which is turning to God is how we receive God's gift to us.

Continuing to believe to the end is how we obtain in reality, that which we have faith for.

32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him. Matthew 21:32

Jesus shows us it is those who obey, who actually believe, for the publicans and tax collectors were baptized by John, but the chief priests and the elders of the people did not.

15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Matthew 16:15-16


JLB

 

Drew

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Jesus said that the best of Christians or disciples will go to hell forever matthew 7 22,...
I do not believe Jesus is saying this at all in this text. Here is the text again:

22Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' [Matthew 7:22, NASB]

There is nothing here that requires us to believe that Jesus is speaking to believers here. In fact we know he is not:

23And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.' [Matthew 7:23, NASB]

You are, I believe, trying to use Matt 7:22 to argue that good works cannot save. And to that, you have to assume that Jesus is here addressing Christians who have done good deeds. Well that argument self-destructs precisely because Jesus tells these people in verse 23 that they are lost despite their works. Well, if they are Christians, by your own stated belief that faith alone matters and that a believer cannot be lost, how is it possible that such a Christian will be rejected at the end, as Jesus tells us will happen here?

I suggest it is clear that Jesus is addressing people who are not Christians, and whose good works are therefore not Spirit-generated. Jesus is certainly not telling a believer that they will be rejected because they cast out demons and did miracles. That would make no sense at all - why in the world would Jesus reject a believer because they did bad things?
 

dadof10

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I'll attempt to ask this a different way. If the eternal life given me is eternal, how can it no longer be God's own life everlasting if it can be taken because I don't do things exactly right?
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
I don't think it's "taken", it's given back. It's still "eternal", but we reject it.
 

Eugene

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I don't think it's "taken", it's given back. It's still "eternal", but we reject it.
Dear brother, I personally am convinced that if we have eternal life it's permanent, and not such as those who partook of the Holy Spirit in hearing the word, seeing the miracles, and then returning to their previous lives without ever believing on Jesus.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
If they didn't believe on Jesus with all the Holy Spirit presented, there was no other remission for the sin they possessed.
 

Not_Now.Soon

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(Post removed, A&T Guidelines state in part: "Subsequent responses either opposing or adding additional information should include references to specific supportive scripture relevant to the thread and offer explanation of the member's understanding of how that scripture applies." Obadiah)
 
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dadof10

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Dear brother, I personally am convinced that if we have eternal life it's permanent, and not such as those who partook of the Holy Spirit in hearing the word, seeing the miracles, and then returning to their previous lives without ever believing on Jesus.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
If they didn't believe on Jesus with all the Holy Spirit presented, there was no other remission for the sin they possessed.
Isn't the author of Hebrews describing a saved person? The person is "enlightened", he has "tasted of the heavenly gift", he was "made partaker of the Holy Ghost" and he has "tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come". If this doesn't describe a person who has eternal life, I don't know what does.
 

Eugene

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Isn't the author of Hebrews describing a saved person? The person is "enlightened", he has "tasted of the heavenly gift", he was "made partaker of the Holy Ghost" and he has "tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come". If this doesn't describe a person who has eternal life, I don't know what does.
Dear brother, I can only give what I believe of God's word, and that is when we believe on Jesus, we are saved even to them merely calling on His name (Rom 10:13), we have passed from death to life (Joh 5:24), and have been given to Jesus by our Father.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (Oh but one says we can jump from His hand)
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one. (In agreement)
Jesus had previously said:
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
God is totally for us. As to them that return without believing on Jesus regardless His calling, notice the pronouns WE in Heb 6:3 & THEY in Heb 6:4.
In Heb 6:6 God knows there is nothing other than believing on Christ to renew them again unto repentance. There is but one name under heaven given man to be saved, and that was not enough for them. All other sin can be forgiven other than not receiving Jesus as our Savior.

My thoughts.
 

dadof10

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Dear brother, I can only give what I believe of God's word, and that is when we believe on Jesus, we are saved even to them merely calling on His name (Rom 10:13), we have passed from death to life (Joh 5:24), and have been given to Jesus by our Father.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (Oh but one says we can jump from His hand)
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one. (In agreement)
Jesus had previously said:
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
God is totally for us. As to them that return without believing on Jesus regardless His calling, notice the pronouns WE in Heb 6:3 & THEY in Heb 6:4.
In Heb 6:6 God knows there is nothing other than believing on Christ to renew them again unto repentance. There is but one name under heaven given man to be saved, and that was not enough for them. All other sin can be forgiven other than not receiving Jesus as our Savior.

My thoughts.
Well, my thoughts are that the people described by the author of Hebrews are saved. Since the verses clearly describe people who are saved and then apostatize, OSAS is a false doctrine. We can, indeed lose eternal life.
 

Seabass

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We just ask for his free gift of salvation and receive it. Who here thinks if you ask someone to give you their brand new Lamborghini as a gift is working for it? Who here thinks the person asking for a Lamborghini as a gift worked for it and earned it when he received the lamborghini for free, to keep forever! Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. For whosoever shall call upon THE NAME OF THE LORD shall be saved” (Romans 10:13) Call here is the word meaning believe. Feel free to explain why you feel you earned, or worked so hard for that brand spanking new lamborghini after you asked for it, and was freely given to you!
I could give you for free a brand new Lamborghini. Want it? Then do the work of coming to my office to pick up the car, keys and title. Does your work in coming to my office mean you earned the free car? No, for all you did was meet a condition I placed upon my free gift. Likewise calling upon the name of the Lord is a condition that must be met in order to receive salvation. Does working to meet that condition earn the free gift? Not at all.
 

FreeGrace

 
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I don't think it's "taken", it's given back. It's still "eternal", but we reject it.
What verse indicates that we have the power or authority to "give back" eternal life? That's not possible. Because it's not taught in Scripture.

Furthermore, Jesus says that He gives eternal life, and they shall NEVER PERISH. Couldn't be any more clear.
 

Drew

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What verse indicates that we have the power or authority to "give back" eternal life? That's not possible. Because it's not taught in Scripture.
You have used this strategy at other times as well - you ask for Biblical proof for something. Well, that can be a legitimate move in some contexts, but not in all. The fact that the Scriptures might never make a statement like "you cannot return the gift of eternal life" does not meant that you cannot, in fact, "give back" that gift.

The scriptures never say a lot of things that are still true. For instance, the Scriptures never clearly articulate the theology of the Trinity, but many of us believe it anyway.
 

FreeGrace

 
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I said this:
"What verse indicates that we have the power or authority to "give back" eternal life? That's not possible. Because it's not taught in Scripture."
You have used this strategy at other times as well - you ask for Biblical proof for something. Well, that can be a legitimate move in some contexts, but not in all. The fact that the Scriptures might never make a statement like "you cannot return the gift of eternal life" does not meant that you cannot, in fact, "give back" that gift.
Why not? So far, all you've posted is ASSUMPTION. Not one single factoid from Scripture for such ideas.

I NEVER base my theology on anyone's assumptions.

The scriptures never say a lot of things that are still true. For instance, the Scriptures never clearly articulate the theology of the Trinity, but many of us believe it anyway.
This is an incredibly poor argument to defend your huge ASSUMPTIONS that one can discard eternal life, as if it is some kind of object.
 

MarkT

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We just ask for his free gift of salvation and receive it. Who here thinks if you ask someone to give you their brand new Lamborghini as a gift is working for it? Who here thinks the person asking for a Lamborghini as a gift worked for it and earned it when he received the lamborghini for free, to keep forever! Romans 6:23: For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. For whosoever shall call upon THE NAME OF THE LORD shall be saved” (Romans 10:13) Call here is the word meaning believe. Feel free to explain why you feel you earned, or worked so hard for that brand spanking new lamborghini after you asked for it, and was freely given to you!
Well, call does not mean believe but it certainly implies belief.

If you proceed to run over people, why couldn't God take that Lamborghini away from you and throw you in with the hypocrites? Mathew 24:48-51
 
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