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    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

If I ask someone for a gift, did I earn it, or work for it when I got it handed to me?

Who thinks asking for a gift, when is received worked for it, and earned it?

  • Worked for it, and earned it!

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    Votes: 11 91.7%

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    12

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Jim said: "From what James says I gather that faith without Works will not save anyone."

Then your saying its not a gift, its conditional, but the Word of God says..

No. I'm saying that having faith that does not include doing what God says to do will not save anyone. That would be "dead" faith; "I believe but I'm not going to do what you say" faith.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Right. But that isn't all that Paul has to say.

Rom 2:6-7 (God) “will render to each one according to his deeds”: eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

And there are many more similar verses.

The problem with taking a single verse to prove one's doctrine is that the Bible isn't one verse. There are many passages that address the same topic. We have to seriously consider them all to understand what the Bible teaches. There are many verses in which eternal life is identified as a gift and there are many verses which teach that eternal life can be lost, forfeited, or discarded.

A very clear passage is Eze 18:21-24. But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live.

"Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord GOD, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live? But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die
.

The idea that because eternal life is a gift it can never be lost is a relatively modern innovation (From the last 500 years) which has taken hold and become a mainstay of portions of western, Protestant, Christianity. It is a deviation from what had been taught from antiquity.

iakov the fool
:boing
 
I just said: Our having that life is conditional upon our continuing in the faith. (which includes faithfulness)
What verses say that one must continue in the faith in order having eternal life?

Jesus taught that one HAS eternal life WHEN one believes in Him. John 5:24

COL1:21-23; HEB 3:14, 2PE 1:5-10, EZE 18:24
Col 1:21-23 - 21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I,Paul, was made a minister.

OK, "if indeed you continue in the faith", what happens? Does one receive eternal life? No. It is "in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and byond reproach". I believe you have misread the text.

Heb 3:14 - For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end

OK, where is there any mention of eternal life here? Why would one think that "becoming partakers of Christ" refers to getting saved, receiving eternal life? The Greek word means "to partner". This is something only believers are qualified to do. No unbeliever can be a "partner of Christ". I believe you have misunderstood the text.

2 Pet 1:5-11 - 5Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. 8For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. 10Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; 11for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior JesusChrist will be abundantly supplied to you.

OK, another misunderstood passage. I added v.11 because it is REASON Peter admonishes his audience to add to their faith. For not just an entrance, but an "abundantly supplied" entrance. iow, reward for adding to your faith.

And the passage is clear about the FACT that those who "lack these qualities" has "forgotten his purification from his former sins" (v.9). Point being, his sins have been purified even though he has forgotten.

The passage is about spiritual growth to maturity. It's done by adding to our faith these specific character qualities. There is nothing here about receiving eternal life based on effort, works, etc.

Exe 18:24 - “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.

This text is about physical death, not eternal. There is no suggestion of eternal death here. It's the same theme throughout the OT. Obedience results in blessings and life. Disobedience results in loss of blessings and death.

Paul was referring specifically to the calling of Israel but it is appropriate to apply it to the gift of eternal life.
Paul noted both the calling and gifts of God, which are irrevocable. Eternal life is irrevocable.

However, the fact that God will not "take back" His gift does not mean that we cannot toss it aside and choose not to "walk in it."
I've already addressed this. The FACT is that nowhere in Scripture is such a scenario described or taught; that man can "loss it aside". As for choosing to not walk in it, what are you referring to? The only verse that comes to mind is Gal 5:16, which is about walking by means of the Holy Spirit, so we will NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Again, nothing about eternal life being "tossed away".

Upon being given a gift, it is within the power of the receiver to cherish or discard it.
True with all objects, but we're not talking about mere objects. We're talking about a new birth, regeneration, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, HAVING eternal life, which is God's life.

How dare anyone claim that a mere human has the power or authority to discard the life that God has imparted.

The reason I though you might be Calvinist is the "I" in TULIP; "Irresistible Grace." That refers to the idea that man is not capable of rejecting God's gift.
They do it all the time.

We cannot be good enough to be justified by our good works. But, as I understand it, God will not give eternal life to someone who believes but neglects to do the works "...which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." (Eph 2:10 - The "ghost verse."
There is nothing in Eph or anywhere else that teaches that one must believe PLUS do the works, as is being suggested or claimed. v.10 is no ghost verse. It's the REASON for what we were prepared to do as believers. To serve God.

Everyone wants to stop at 2:9 and then skip 10.) From what James says I gather that faith without Works will not save anyone.
That was not his message at all. If so, then he contradicts the rest of the Bible.

James 2:15,16 gives us an example of someone who doesn't live by what they claim. iow, a hypocrite. And believers can be just as big a hypocrite as unbelievers. James was encouraging believers to live out their faith so that others can see their faith.

2:18 proves that.
 
Jesus taught that one HAS eternal life WHEN one believes in Him. John 5:24

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. John 5:24

Yes when we believe we have eternal life, which is described by Jesus Himself as relationship with God and whom God sent, Jesus Christ.

A comparison of the wording here, that says...believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life... with the wording of John 17:3, shows us the same wording, and reveals the principle of eternal life.

3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3


Key Phrase:

  • believes in Him who sent Me... John 5:24
  • they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

Both of these verse's correlate God the father and Jesus Christ whom He sent, with eternal life.


Eternal life is relationship with Jesus Christ, through believing in Him and God who sent Him.

This relationship is described by the Lord, just as a branch is in relationship to the Vine that supports it.


“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6


It's the continuing to remain connected in relationship, described as abiding, that reveals the outcome of the believer.


The way we come into relationship, ie; eternal life, is by believing.

If the believing stops, the relationship is severed... If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered;

A severed relationship with Jesus Christ, is not eternal life.

Unless you have a scripture that teaches us a severed relationship with Jesus Christ is eternal life, then OSAS remains as a doctrine of man.


JLB
 
What verses say that one must continue in the faith in order having eternal life?

Jesus taught that one HAS eternal life WHEN one believes in Him. John 5:24


Col 1:21-23 - 21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I,Paul, was made a minister.

OK, "if indeed you continue in the faith", what happens? Does one receive eternal life? No. It is "in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and byond reproach". I believe you have misread the text.

Heb 3:14 - For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end

OK, where is there any mention of eternal life here? Why would one think that "becoming partakers of Christ" refers to getting saved, receiving eternal life? The Greek word means "to partner". This is something only believers are qualified to do. No unbeliever can be a "partner of Christ". I believe you have misunderstood the text.

2 Pet 1:5-11 - 5Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. 8For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. 10Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; 11for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior JesusChrist will be abundantly supplied to you.

OK, another misunderstood passage. I added v.11 because it is REASON Peter admonishes his audience to add to their faith. For not just an entrance, but an "abundantly supplied" entrance. iow, reward for adding to your faith.

And the passage is clear about the FACT that those who "lack these qualities" has "forgotten his purification from his former sins" (v.9). Point being, his sins have been purified even though he has forgotten.

The passage is about spiritual growth to maturity. It's done by adding to our faith these specific character qualities. There is nothing here about receiving eternal life based on effort, works, etc.

Exe 18:24 - “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.

This text is about physical death, not eternal. There is no suggestion of eternal death here. It's the same theme throughout the OT. Obedience results in blessings and life. Disobedience results in loss of blessings and death.


Paul noted both the calling and gifts of God, which are irrevocable. Eternal life is irrevocable.


I've already addressed this. The FACT is that nowhere in Scripture is such a scenario described or taught; that man can "loss it aside". As for choosing to not walk in it, what are you referring to? The only verse that comes to mind is Gal 5:16, which is about walking by means of the Holy Spirit, so we will NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Again, nothing about eternal life being "tossed away".


True with all objects, but we're not talking about mere objects. We're talking about a new birth, regeneration, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, HAVING eternal life, which is God's life.

How dare anyone claim that a mere human has the power or authority to discard the life that God has imparted.


They do it all the time.


There is nothing in Eph or anywhere else that teaches that one must believe PLUS do the works, as is being suggested or claimed. v.10 is no ghost verse. It's the REASON for what we were prepared to do as believers. To serve God.


That was not his message at all. If so, then he contradicts the rest of the Bible.

James 2:15,16 gives us an example of someone who doesn't live by what they claim. iow, a hypocrite. And believers can be just as big a hypocrite as unbelievers. James was encouraging believers to live out their faith so that others can see their faith.

2:18 proves that.

If that's how you want to see it then enjoy!

iakov the fool
:boing
 
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. John 5:24

Yes when we believe we have eternal life, which is described by Jesus Himself as relationship with God and whom God sent, Jesus Christ.

A comparison of the wording here, that says...believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life... with the wording of John 17:3, shows us the same wording, and reveals the principle of eternal life.

3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3
Key Phrase:

  • believes in Him who sent Me... John 5:24
  • they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3
Both of these verse's correlate God the father and Jesus Christ whom He sent, with eternal life.
Eternal life is relationship with Jesus Christ, through believing in Him and God who sent Him.

This relationship is described by the Lord, just as a branch is in relationship to the Vine that supports it.
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6
It's the continuing to remain connected in relationship, described as abiding, that reveals the outcome of the believer.
The way we come into relationship, ie; eternal life, is by believing.
If the believing stops, the relationship is severed... If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered;
A severed relationship with Jesus Christ, is not eternal life.
Unless you have a scripture that teaches us a severed relationship with Jesus Christ is eternal life, then OSAS remains as a doctrine of man.JLB
None of this disproves the fact that eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23) that is irrevocable (Rom 11:29).
 
If that's how you want to see it then enjoy!
I do enjoy the truth. And Scripture is truth.

I'm waiting for any verse or passages that teaches that one must continue in the faith in order to continue to be saved.

If none are produced, then there's no reason at all to believe it.

One receives eternal life WHEN on believes. John 5:24
Eternal life is a gift of God. Rom 6:23
God's gifts are irrevocable. Rom 11:29
 
None of this disproves the fact that eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23) that is irrevocable (Rom 11:29).

Eternal life, relationship with God and Jesus Christ whom He sent, is a gift.

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:29 KJV

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29 NKJV

  • The word without repentance or as it's also rendered irrevocable, does not mean the same thing as the more modern version of the word as you are implying, such as "does not take back".
Strongs 278 - not repentant of, unregretted.

Now it certainly may mean that God will not "turn away" from you, but that does not mean the person can not choose to turn away from God through unbelief. [Hebrews 3:12-14 - Luke 8:13 - Romans 11:20 - John 15:6]

A study of the context quickly reveals that no such meaning is implied.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Because of unbelief they were broken off...

The way eternal life, relationship with God, is obtained is by believing.

The way this relationship is severed is by unbelief... Because of unbelief they were broken off.


Unless you can produce a scripture that shows us a person who has been severed from relationship with God, still has the eternal life he provides, then you are pushing an unbiblical principal and an unbiblical doctrine of man.


The onus is on you to prove with scripture, that a severed relationship with God can still produce eternal life in an ex-believer.



JLB




 
Eternal life, relationship with God and Jesus Christ whom He sent, is a gift.

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:29 KJV

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29 NKJV

  • The word without repentance or as it's also rendered irrevocable, does not mean the same thing as the more modern version of the word as you are implying, such as "does not take back".
Strongs 278 - not repentant of, unregretted.

Now it certainly may mean that God will not "turn away" from you, but that does not mean the person can not choose to turn away from God through unbelief. [Hebrews 3:12-14 - Luke 8:13 - Romans 11:20 - John 15:6]

A study of the context quickly reveals that no such meaning is implied.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Because of unbelief they were broken off...

The way eternal life, relationship with God, is obtained is by believing.

The way this relationship is severed is by unbelief... Because of unbelief they were broken off.


Unless you can produce a scripture that shows us a person who has been severed from relationship with God, still has the eternal life he provides, then you are pushing an unbiblical principal and an unbiblical doctrine of man.


The onus is on you to prove with scripture, that a severed relationship with God can still produce eternal life in an ex-believer.
JLB
The proof is in Scripture. God's gifts are irrevocable. And eternal life is irrevocable. Nothing difficult to understand about that.

Keep in mind that there are no verses that teach that eternal life is lost if one's faith is lost. None.

In Luke 8, Jesus noted that some "believe for a while", and then "fall away". A perfect place to state loss of salvation in such a condition. Yet, Jesus makes NO SUCH claim.

In fact, in the previous verse, He notes that believing results in salvation. Yet, nothing about loss of salvation.

The onus is on those who claim that salvation can be lost. There are no verses that teach that.

btw, to directly respond to your last sentence with the red words; no one claims that God "still produces eternal life" in an ex-believer.

Eternal life isn't "produced" in anyone. It's a gift that is GIVEN to those who believe, WHEN they believe.

So your statement is bogus.

Again, the challenge. Please cite any verse that teaches that those who quit believing have lost their salvation.

Assumptions and opinions have no bearing on the issue. Only clear verses.
 
One is severed from eternal life through unbelief... Because of unbelief they were broken off. Romans 11:20
Please actually cite the verse that says that "one is severed from eternal life through unbelief".

Again, assumptions and opinions have no bearing on the issue. Rom 11:20 doesn't support your claim. It speaks of branches being broken off. One must prove Paul was referring to eternal life being severed.
 
The proof is in Scripture. God's gifts are irrevocable. And eternal life is irrevocable. Nothing difficult to understand about that.

Keep in mind that there are no verses that teach that eternal life is lost if one's faith is lost. None.

In Luke 8, Jesus noted that some "believe for a while", and then "fall away". A perfect place to state loss of salvation in such a condition. Yet, Jesus makes NO SUCH claim.

In fact, in the previous verse, He notes that believing results in salvation. Yet, nothing about loss of salvation.

The onus is on those who claim that salvation can be lost. There are no verses that teach that.

btw, to directly respond to your last sentence with the red words; no one claims that God "still produces eternal life" in an ex-believer.

Eternal life isn't "produced" in anyone. It's a gift that is GIVEN to those who believe, WHEN they believe.

So your statement is bogus.

Again, the challenge. Please cite any verse that teaches that those who quit believing have lost their salvation.

Assumptions and opinions have no bearing on the issue. Only clear verses.


Yes the proof is in the scriptures, not the "redefined" meanings of post modernism, based on relativism.


Because of unbelief they were broken off. Romans 11:20


Please actually cite the verse that says that "one is severed from eternal life through unbelief".

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:2

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Because of unbelief they were broken off. Romans 11:20


The people are in Christ, by believing the Gospel Message, then they are severed from relationship with Christ, and no longer have access to the eternal life He provided.


The onus is on you to prove with scripture, that a severed relationship with God can still produce eternal life in an ex-believer.



JLB

 
And eternal life is irrevocable.


No scripture in the bible states this.

The scripture says: For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:29 KJV


  • The word without repentance or as it's also rendered irrevocable, does not mean the same thing as the more modern version of the word as you are implying, such as "does not take back".
Strongs 278 - not repentant of, unregretted.

Now it certainly may mean that God will not "turn away" from you, but that does not mean the person can not choose to turn away from God through unbelief. [Hebrews 3:12-14 - Luke 8:13 - Romans 11:20 - John 15:6]

A study of the context quickly reveals that no such meaning is implied.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”20 Well said.Because of unbelief they were broken off,and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in Hisgoodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Because of unbelief they were broken off...

The way eternal life, relationship with God, is obtained is by believing.

The way this relationship is severed is by unbelief... Because of unbelief they were broken off.


Because of unbelief they were broken off...


The onus is on you to prove with scripture, that a severed relationship with God can still produce eternal life in an ex-believer.


JLB
 
Yes the proof is in the scriptures, not the "redefined" meanings of post modernism, based on relativism.
What does any of this have to do with the clarity of Scripture? That eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23) and that God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29).

Where did Paul define anything else as a gift of God in ch 11, or anywhere between ch 6 and ch 11? He didn't.

Because of unbelief they were broken off. Romans 11:20
Agricultural metaphor. Not to be taken literally.

The people are in Christ, by believing the Gospel Message, then they are severed from relationship with Christ, and no longer have access to the eternal life He provided.
Please show the verse that actually SAYS that anyone "no longer has access to the eternal life that He provided".

The onus is on you to prove with scripture, that a severed relationship with God can still produce eternal life in an ex-believer.
I've already address the fallacy of your statement about "producing eternal life". It isn't produced. There isn't any verse that even suggests that eternal life is "produced".

Your responses continue to reveal the error of the idea of loss of salvation (eternal life) by treating it as an object.

Because it is a new life, it isn't like an object that can be lost, misplaced, given away, etc. Nor can it be produced.

That's the problem with your view. It's flawed at the outset.
 
No scripture in the bible states this.
Actually, no Scripture states anything about loss of salvation. And like the Pharisees who witnessed miracles yet continued to deny that Jesus was God, those who preach that salvation can be lost see the verses about eternal secuirity but just continue to deny that salvation cannot be lost.

The way this relationship is severed is by unbelief... Because of unbelief they were broken off.
Please provide ANY verse that states that eternal life is severed by unbelief.

Because of unbelief they were broken off…
So please exegete the verse to prove that being broken off refers specifically to a severed relationship and loss of eternal life.

The onus is on you to prove with scripture, that a severed relationship with God can still produce eternal life in an ex-believer.JLB
Once again, the whole basis of your view is flawed by your repeated comment about eternal life being "produced".

Please provide any verse that speaks of eternal life being produced.

The point by Paul from Rom 6:23 and 11:29 is that once given as a gift, eternal life is irrevocable. iow, once given, there is NOTHING to produce in the believer. He already HAS it. Jesus said so in John 5:24.

So, eternal life is NEVER said to be "produced" in the believer. Much less that it's an on-going production.

The onus is on your side to prove that eternal life is produced in the first place, or that ceasing to believe results in a ceasing of production of eternal life.

The very concept of 'producing eternal life' proves that your concept of eternal life is faulty.
 
Actually, no Scripture states anything about loss of salvation. And like the Pharisees who witnessed miracles yet continued to deny that Jesus was God, those who preach that salvation can be lost see the verses about eternal secuirity but just continue to deny that salvation cannot be lost.


Please provide ANY verse that states that eternal life is severed by unbelief.


So please exegete the verse to prove that being broken off refers specifically to a severed relationship and loss of eternal life.


Once again, the whole basis of your view is flawed by your repeated comment about eternal life being "produced".

Please provide any verse that speaks of eternal life being produced.

The point by Paul from Rom 6:23 and 11:29 is that once given as a gift, eternal life is irrevocable. iow, once given, there is NOTHING to produce in the believer. He already HAS it. Jesus said so in John 5:24.

So, eternal life is NEVER said to be "produced" in the believer. Much less that it's an on-going production.

The onus is on your side to prove that eternal life is produced in the first place, or that ceasing to believe results in a ceasing of production of eternal life.

The very concept of 'producing eternal life' proves that your concept of eternal life is faulty.

Either you have eternal life in and of yourself, or God Himself provides eternal life to you, if you are connected to Him in relationship, just as a branch receives life from the Vine it is connected to in relationship.

The scripture says: For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:29 KJV


  • The word without repentance or as it's also rendered irrevocable, does not mean the same thing as the more modern version of the word as you are implying, such as "does not take back".
Strongs 278 - not repentant of, unregretted.

Now it certainly may mean that God will not "turn away" from you, but that does not mean the person can not choose to turn away from God through unbelief. [Hebrews 3:12-14 - Luke 8:13 - Romans 11:20 - John 15:6]

A study of the context quickly reveals that no such meaning is implied.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.”20 Well said.Because of unbelief they were broken off,and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue inHisgoodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Because of unbelief they were broken off...

The way eternal life, relationship with God, is obtained is by believing.

The way this relationship is severed is by unbelief... Because of unbelief they were broken off.


Because of unbelief they were broken off...

No relationship = no eternal life. A person must remain connected to the source of eternal life in order to receive the eternal life from Him, just as a branch must remain connected to the Vine to receive the life from the Vine.


The onus is on you to prove with scripture, that a severed relationship with God can still produce eternal life in an ex-believer.


JLB
 
Either you have eternal life in and of yourself, or God Himself provides eternal life to you, if you are connected to Him in relationship, just as a branch receives life from the Vine it is connected to in relationship.
No where in Scripture do we read about God "producing" eternal life for anyone. God GIVES eternal life. He doesn't "produce" it for people.

Your concept of eternal life is flawed.

The scripture says: For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:29 KJV


  • The word without repentance or as it's also rendered irrevocable, does not mean the same thing as the more modern version of the word as you are implying, such as "does not take back".
  • Who's opinion is this?
Now it certainly may mean that God will not "turn away" from you, but that does not mean the person can not choose to turn away from God through unbelief. [Hebrews 3:12-14 - Luke 8:13 - Romans 11:20 - John 15:6]

A study of the context quickly reveals that no such meaning is implied.
Again, I repeat: there are NO VERSES that teach or even imply that turning away from God or ceasing to believe results in loss of eternal life. None whatsoever.
 
Who's opinion is this?

Strongs 278 - not repentant of, unregretted.

Vines -

Repent, Repentance:

"not repented of, unregretted" (a, negative, and a verbal adjective of A, No. 2), signifies "without change of purpose;" it is said
(a) of God in regard to his "gifts and calling," Rom 11:29;

(b) of man, 2Cr 7:10, RV, "[repentance (metanoia, see C)]... which bringeth no regret" (AV, "not to be repented of"); the difference between metanoia and metamelomai, illustrated here, is briefly expressed in the contrast between "repentance" and "regret."
 
Again, I repeat: there are NO VERSES that teach or even imply that turning away from God or ceasing to believe results in loss of eternal life. None whatsoever.

Because of unbelief they were broken off,and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. Romans 11:20

They were broken off.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; John 15:2

The person is IN CHRIST, then they are removed from Christ, the only source of eternal life.


Again, the onus is you to provide a scripture that teaches a person can be severed from Christ, yet still be saved, by having eternal life, apart from Him.


JLB
 
No where in Scripture do we read about God "producing" eternal life for anyone. God GIVES eternal life. He doesn't "produce" it for people..

Either you have eternal life in and of yourself, or God Himself provides eternal life to you, if you are connected to Him in relationship, just as a branch receives life from the Vine it is connected to in relationship.


Again, the onus is you to provide a scripture that teaches a person can be severed from Christ, yet still be saved, by having eternal life, apart from Him.
 
I asked this:
"The word without repentance or as it's also rendered irrevocable, does not mean the same thing as the more modern version of the word as you are implying, such as "does not take back"."
Strongs 278 - not repentant of, unregretted.
Your answer does not line up with my question. Who says that the Greek word does not include the idea of "does not take back?" I know what Strongs says. And it says NOTHING about "does not take back".

So, please cite your source. I don't accept opinion.

Vines -Repent, Repentance:
"not repented of, unregretted" (a, negative, and a verbal adjective of A, No. 2), signifies "without change of purpose;" it is said
(a) of God in regard to his "gifts and calling," Rom 11:29;
Still NOTHING about not taking back.

And your side has NEVER shown any Scripture that says that God will or can take it back. So it's just an opinion.

(b) of man, 2Cr 7:10, RV, "[repentance (metanoia, see C)]... which bringeth no regret" (AV, "not to be repented of"); the difference between metanoia and metamelomai, illustrated here, is briefly expressed in the contrast between "repentance" and "regret."
This surely doesn't support your claim that God will take back His gift of eternal life.

If God WERE to take back His gift, that would DEMONSTRATE that He DID REGRET giving it.

So, the onus is on someone to prove that taking a gift back doesn't demonstrate regret in giving it.

I'll be waiting.
 
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