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Rollo Tamasi

Warrior for Christ
Member
Let's face it.
We all know I'm going to heaven.
After all, who's more OSAS on this forum than me.

But what about you?
Are you going to heaven?
Let's hear your answers whether you think you are or not.
 
Purgatory is like a waiting room. There might be some punishments . But only to smooth over those rough edges. A purification process. None of us are gonna be perfect when we depart this life. I'm thinking I'm a long way off Heaven actually. That will need Holiness with a capital H. Which I lack for sure.
Call me delusionally arrogant, but I honestly don't think God is going to send me to Hell. I try to repent daily.
No one is sure Hell exists anyway. It's more in the dark recesses of out terrified minds. Thinking a sadistic God would let us suffer eternally. I don't buy that.
Heaven or union with God, is a long way off for me and possibly many people.
This message might annoy some. Sorry about that.
 
Purgatory is like a waiting room. There might be some punishments . But only to smooth over those rough edges. A purification process. None of us are gonna be perfect when we depart this life. I'm thinking I'm a long way off Heaven actually. That will need Holiness with a capital H. Which I lack for sure.
Call me delusionally arrogant, but I honestly don't think God is going to send me to Hell. I try to repent daily.
No one is sure Hell exists anyway. It's more in the dark recesses of out terrified minds. Thinking a sadistic God would let us suffer eternally. I don't buy that.
Heaven or union with God, is a long way off for me and possibly many people.
This message might annoy some. Sorry about that.
Revelation 20:11-15;
 
Purgatory is like a waiting room. There might be some punishments . But only to smooth over those rough edges. A purification process. None of us are gonna be perfect when we depart this life. I'm thinking I'm a long way off Heaven actually. That will need Holiness with a capital H. Which I lack for sure.
Call me delusionally arrogant, but I honestly don't think God is going to send me to Hell. I try to repent daily.
No one is sure Hell exists anyway. It's more in the dark recesses of out terrified minds. Thinking a sadistic God would let us suffer eternally. I don't buy that.
Heaven or union with God, is a long way off for me and possibly many people.
This message might annoy some. Sorry about that.
I found this one day searching about purgatory. I do have the Jerusalem Bible that has the books of Macabbes in it and read the scriptures.

2 Macabbes is where Catholics get their idea of a purgatory and that everyone will go to be with Christ when He returns. There is no purgatory as this is just something that man dreamed up and is not of God. In Psalms 88 we see Heman was asking God these three questions in vs. 10-12 as he was sore plexed in approching his own death and was not sure that he would escape the wrath of God in judgement and was wondering if those who died who are in the grave could hear Gods voice. Psalms 6:5; Hebrews 9:27; Matthew 8:21,22; 2 Corinthians 5:8-11; Revelation 14:13 are just for a few scriptures all state the grave is a place of unconscienceness where there is no memory and souls are not capable of anything as it is dark silence waiting that of Gods judgement at the end of time when Christ returns and separates the sheep from the goats. They have no knowledge, no comfort, no praise of God, and most assuredly, no power of intercession.

2 Macabbes 12:38-45 Judas Maccabaeus is speaking about the sacrifice for the fallen who were found to have pagan idols on them when they died and this was the reason for their death as it is against God to have such idols in ones posession. It was clear to everyone why these men lost their lives. All of them blest the Lord and gave themselves to prayer begging that the sin commited by those who died would be blotted out. Judas urged the people to keep themselves free from sin, seeing with their own eyes the effects of the sin of those who had fallen. Judas then took a collection of money and sent it to Jerusalem to have a sacrifice for sin offered. although a fine and nobel action in which he took full account of the resurrection. For if he had not expected the fallen to rise again it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. Whereas if he had in view the splendid recompense reserved for those who made a pious end, the though was holy and devout. This was why he had this atonement sacrifice offered for the dead so that they might be released from their sin.


This is where the Roman Catholic Church came up with the concept of purgatory. Hopefully this will clear some things up we have been discussing. Also here is a good website that explains why the two books of Maccabees are not found in the KJV Bible

Jerusalem Bible
2 Maccabees 12:38-45
The sacrifice for the fallen

12:38 Judas then rallied his army and moved on to the town of Adullam, and since the seventh day of the week had arrived they purified themselves according to custom and kept the sabbath in that place.
12:39 The next day they came to Judas (since the necessity was by now urgent) to have the bodies of the fallen taken up and laid to rest among their relatives in their ancestral tombs.
12:40 But when they found on each of the dead men, under their tunics, amulets of the idols taken from Jamnia, which the Law prohibits to Jews, it became clear to everyone that this was why these men had lost their lives.
12:41 All then blessed the ways of the Lord, the just judge who brings hidden things to light,
12:42 and gave themselves to prayer, begging that the sin committed might be fully blotted out. Next, the valiant Judas urged the people to keep themselves free from all sin, having seen with their own eyes the effects of the sin of those who had fallen;
12:43 after this he took a collection from them individually, amounting to nearly two thousand drachmae, and sent it to Jerusalem to have a sacrifice for sin offered, an altogether fine and noble action, in which he took full account of the resurrection.
12:44 For if he had not expected the fallen to rise again it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead,
12:45 whereas if he had in view the splendid recompense reserved for those who make a pious end, the thought was holy and devout. This was why he had this atonement sacrifice offered for the dead, so that they might be released from their sin.
 
Revelation 20:11-15;
Good scripture. So many think that when we die we automatically go to heaven as that is what they have been taught through a socially acceptable teaching.

This is what Jesus said as we read John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Let's not forget what is written in Matthew 24: 29-31; 1 Corinthians 15:51-58 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
 
BTW, let's not make this a debate about OSAS vs. OSNAS as those post will be deleted as that topic is no longer permitted on this forum as it brings to much division among the brethren and arguments occur.
 
No one is sure Hell exists anyway. It's more in the dark recesses of out terrified minds. Thinking a sadistic God would let us suffer eternally. I don't buy that.
God could never be a sadistic God, but is righteous in all His judgements. Those who will suffer eternally are those who made their own choice to reject God and His Son Christ Jesus. God is longsuffering that he would that none should perish and has made a way by His grace through faith that we would not perish, but yet many will continue to reject this free gift from God. It's not God that will punish those who reject Him, but man that will bring God's judgement against them as they have damned themselves, Numbers 14:18; 2 Peter 3:9-13; :Revelation 20:11-15

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

We have always been taught hell is a place where non-believers in God go to for eternity, but according to scripture this is not what hell is. Hell is described as the world of the dead, a place where the departed go that have died as being lowered in a grave/pit. There they are kept until the return of Christ to either stand in Gods Great White Throne judgment for those who are not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev 20:11-15, or those who have died in Christ that will stand in his judgment to give an account for the things done here on earth, 2 Corinthians 5:10.

Hell is not the lake of fire as God gives us a description of the lake of fire as in fire and brimstone which can be used literal as in Sodom and Gomorrah burned to ashes and as a metaphor for torment, suffering, punishment or as Matthew 8:12 describes it as outer darkness. The New Testament description is a bottomless pit (abyss) (Revelation 20:3), a lake (Revelation 20:14), darkness (Matthew 25:30), death (Revelation 2:11), destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9), everlasting torment (Revelation 20:10), a place of wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30), and a place of gradated punishment (Matthew 11:20-24; Luke 12:47-48; Revelation 20:12-13), everlasting fire Matthew 25:41, everlasting punishment, Matthew 25:46, lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance: Hell
Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit
Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell​
 
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I respect Catholics and Catholicism, but...I don't -get- purgatory. Jesus never said anything about an in between state of purification. "for Me or against Me" seems to be the core of a lot of The Good News.
 
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