Is A New Moon A Sign of the Rapture?

[ezra]

So, how does the bread and wine become the body and blood of the Lord?
Jesus didn't say.
Just like He didn't day how He raised Lazarus from the dead or how He gave sight to the man born blind or how all of creation was created through Him.
It is a mystery.
Apparently, we don't need to know HOW he does the things He does. Not our business, I suppose.

So there you have it.
Ignatius was a contemporary of John and his disciple.
Justin was in the next generation of believers who were taught by the disciples of the apostles.
They emphatically and clearly state that the bread and wine of the Eucharist become the body and blood of Christ.

in ways it is important as my understanding the catholic church it literally becomes the Body of Christ .i view ot as more symbolic and spiritual .much like baptism ..see that wasnt so hard. see i know nothing of these men you mentioned . i have no source for early church history . no commentaries mention there name i run across articles with names like polycarp .then i do research

 

[Razeontherock]

no commentaries mention there name i run across articles with names like polycarp .then i do research

I always thought that was such a strange name. How many carp was he? We have carp invading the great lakes, lol

 

[Jim Parker]

in ways it is important as my understanding the catholic church it literally becomes the Body of Christ

The (Roman) Catholic Church has absolutely NOTHING to do with what I posted.
There was no Roman Catholic Church until the 11th century when the Eastern and Western halves of the Church split.

Ignatius and Justin wrote when there was only ONE church, the one that Jesus started when He sent the Holy Spirit on Pentecost.

What I posted is what the apostles taught, not what the RCC scholastics taught over 1000 years later.

Notice that is did NOT mention the RCC notion of "transubstantiation." That is what they came up with in the middle ages to try to explain what happens. The original church never tried to explain how God does what He does.

 

[Jim Parker]

I always thought that was such a strange name. How many carp was he? We have carp invading the great lakes, lol

You can find his writings here: http://saintpolycarpofsmyrna.blogspot.com/p/welcome.html

 

[Jim Parker]

i view ot as more symbolic and spiritual .much like baptism

What do you mean by "spiritual"?
Does that mean it's not real?
Is being "spiritual" like being a "fairy tale"? Not really true?

Jhn 6:63a says; “It is the Spirit who gives life;..."
Should we understand the word "life" as just being "symbolic"?

I suggest to you that Spiritual things are every bit as real as material things.

Or so it seems to me.....

 

[ezra]

What do you mean by "spiritual"?
Does that mean it's not real?
Is being "spiritual" like being a "fairy tale"? Not really true?

Jhn 6:63a says; “It is the Spirit who gives life;..."
Should we understand the word "life" as just being "symbolic"?

I suggest to you that Spiritual things are every bit as real as material things.

Or so it seems to me.....

aww did i say it was a fairy tale
1 Corinthians 2:12-14 King James Version (KJV)
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
does that sound like a fairy tale the spirit quickens brings life give me a break i aint some new ager philosopher . baptism is symbolic of the old man dies goes to the watery grave resurrected a new man . we are already the the new creation in christ before baptism.
look iam trying to have a correspondence with you bro to bro . i been in spirit filled services i have walked into a church and could sense even smell the Holy Spirit presence . i suggest to you please not reply as that i dont know anything. if you dont understand what i post just ask me clarify .
my English/writing skills would give a English teacher heart burn ..i respect your education i ask you respect me . i like to learn early church history

 

[ezra]

You can find his writings here: http://saintpolycarpofsmyrna.blogspot.com/p/welcome.html

polycarp was a very tough man a man who walked with God i have read about him .

 

[ezra]

The (Roman) Catholic Church has absolutely NOTHING to do with what I posted.
There was no Roman Catholic Church until the 11th century when the Eastern and Western halves of the Church split.

Ignatius and Justin wrote when there was only ONE church, the one that Jesus started when He sent the Holy Spirit on Pentecost.

What I posted is what the apostles taught, not what the RCC scholastics taught over 1000 years later.

Notice that is did NOT mention the RCC notion of "transubstantiation." Thats what they came up with in the middle ages to try to explain what happens. The original church never tried to explain how God does what He does.

sigh *** there you go again ***** why are you so defensive ?? i never said you mentioned RCC . i said i was not use to using the word Eucharist . gezzzz the harder i try the more you twist . reminds me of a science teacher i had in high school. he laid some pretty heavy rules on learning the metric system . i said something boy that was tough or something... he flared up and said i was calling him BOY. he was willing step out side and fight .get real if you cant post in a adult like manner ----just dont am i that horrible person you cant reply to me in a nice manner .. we may not agree on every thing.. i dont even agree %100 with the preacher i was saved under and i love him dearly like bro father in the Lord . given chance you will find im not a bad person another chance yea or nay ? or not?

 

[Jim Parker]

aww did i say it was a fairy tale

No. You certainly did not.
But when you say something is "spiritual", I don't know what you mean.

baptism is symbolic of the old man dies goes to the watery grave resurrected a new man .
That's what Paul said except he didn't say it was "symbolic." He said that was what actually happened.
Here, I would use the word "spiritual" to mean that our being joined to Christ in His death and burial and being raised to new life was a "spiritual reality." We are really "born again" in baptism according to Jesus statement to Nicodemus that we must be born again of water and spirit. That is why Peter told the crown on Pentecost that they must be baptized to be saved and they will receive the gift of the Spirit.

i been in spirit filled services i have walked into a church and could sense even smell the Holy Spirit presence .

I believe you 100% That is a wonderful experience.
I've walked into services where, when I walked through the door, I almost fell over from the power of the Spirit in that place.

i like to learn early church history

You can find them here: https://www.holybooks.com/ante-nicene-fathers-vol-i-ix/
But they are not easy reading.
Just take your time. (There's 10 volumes and that only goes through the first 3 centuries! The whole set through the 9th century is 32 volumes.)

 

[Jim Parker]

i never said you mentioned RCC .

AH! The to what were you referring when you wrote: "in ways it is important as my understanding the catholic church..."
I assumed you meant the RCC.
No? My bad.
What did you mean when you referred to the "catholic church"?

 

[Jim Parker]

sigh *** there you go again ***** why are you so defensive ?? i never said you mentioned RCC . i said i was not use to using the word Eucharist .

Sorry.
Most people I encounter, when they say "catholic" they mean "Roman Catholic."

 

[Randy]

Which means absolutely nothing.
You would be far from alone as a Muslim or a Hindu.

Also has nothing to do with the historic faith of the Church.

I didn't say anything about popes. I didn't quote any popes. I don't know why you even mentioned popes.

Jesus knows everyone. (Even those popes you brought up.)

What the Church receives from the apostles who were taught by God incarnate is available to you for free on line. IF you don't want to know what has been the teaching of the apostles from the beginning of the Church, that is your choice. You don't have to justify your choice to me.

And I don't know what any of this has to do with a new moon as a sign of the rapture.
So Popes have nothing to do or had no influence with historic faith?
I think Jesus will tell many "I don't know you" including the religions you brought up. Which I didn't say anything about. I didn't quote any Muslim or Hindu's. I don't know why you brought them into the discussion in regard to our faith especially when many Christians believe as I do which is clearly what I meant.

Jesus can and has influenced me. I know Him. Justin is not someone who can. Fault me if you want that's how I roll.

 

[Jim Parker]

And I don't know what any of this has to do with a new moon as a sign of the rapture.

It has nothing to do with the new moon. It's a different topic initiated by I don't know who.

So Popes have nothing to do or had no influence with historic faith?

I never said that.

I think Jesus will tell many "I don't know you" including the religions you brought up. Which I didn't say anything about. I didn't quote any Muslim or Hindu's. I don't know why you brought them into the discussion in regard to our faith especially when many Christians believe as I do which is clearly what I meant.

It was in response to your comment; "I am far from alone in regard to the bread and wine." (#97)
Being in agreement with others who are in error does not transform error into truth. Consensus does not create reality.

esus can and has influenced me. I know Him. Justin is not someone who can.

He could if you let him. He could teach you some of the faith that the early Christians received from the apostles who were taught by God in person.

Fault me if you want that's how I roll.

Roll any way you want. If you don't want to know what the faith of the apostles was as reflected in the writings of the early Church, that's your choice.
All I can say is that the information is available. It's on line and it's free but i

 

[ezra]

AH! The to what were you referring when you wrote: "in ways it is important as my understanding the catholic church..."
I assumed you meant the RCC.
No? My bad.
What did you mean when you referred to the "catholic church"?

i really dont know a whole lot about the differences of catholic roman catholic so when i use the word catholic its a cover all...what i said was the only time i heard the word Eucharist was in reference to the catholic belief. look i barely keep up with all the baptist . i am more non denom ..i see advertisement in gen baptist for pastor.. key word must uphold gen baptist doctrine . so when i used catholic just a generic word . what i know about catholic just enough let it be

 

[ezra]

No. You certainly did not.
But when you say something is "spiritual", I don't know what you mean.

just ask anything spiritual when i use that term is of the Holy Spirit transformed anointed . we are spiritual beings we have the Holy Spirit living in us .the very moment we get saved .certainly we have to learn to be guided by the spirit .the filling is a never ending process

 

[Jim Parker]

so when i used catholic just a generic word

AH!
AS a generic word, in the USA, "catholic" almost always refers to the Pope in Rome and the church he heads up.
The stuff I posted was from the earliest times of the Church when there was no "Roman Catholic Church."

 

[Jim Parker]

just ask anything spiritual when i use that term is of the Holy Spirit transformed anointed . we are spiritual beings we have the Holy Spirit living in us .the very moment we get saved .certainly we have to learn to be guided by the spirit .the filling is a never ending process

That help me understand what you mean.

 

[ezra]

AH!
AS a generic word, in the USA, "catholic" almost always refers to the Pope in Rome and the church he heads up.
The stuff I posted was from the earliest times of the Church when there was no "Roman Catholic Church."

i dont have much history resource

 

[Jim Parker]

i dont have much history resource

a lot of people don't. It is a shame. There is so much of the early that is unknown to so many believers.
Even when I went to seminary, they taught very little about the teaching of the early church.
I think it was because there is much that is in conflict with evangelical, reformed, Protestantism and they would have to explain it.
Communion (the Eucharist) is an example.

 

[ezra]

Communion (the Eucharist) is an example.

thats my point i have never heard Eucharist used instead of Communion only in conversation when referring to the Catholic teaching. my understanding they think it becomes the fleshly body.. that is why i say it is symbolic but spiritual it is a very sacred event . so often never hear a warning not to partake of it if your lost .i was raised in the u.m .c growing up i took of it.never hearing the word not to if lost .. i fear the church is in many ways operating on traditions