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Is Christ coming in our life time or is it history

Hope of glory

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I don't see god stopping the flood for the swimmers to repent while they gasped for air.
That brought some interesting visuals. Thank you :)

Are you on the (It's all passed already) team? Luke 21, Matt 24 and Rev?


Peter made a tie to the flood and the end where the earth gets burnt up. Jesus made a tie to the end and the flood in Matt 24.. we have two ties to the End and Noah's flood. I don't think that is coincidence.

Blessings.

Mike.
Brother Mike

Definitely not a coincidence, I told you we can talk 2pet.3, you will like it, but not quite yet.
 

Hope of glory

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Preterism teaches that all scripture has been fulfilled, which includes -

All the scripture as in "ALL"?

Is this what Hope in Glory believes? That all of it has come to pass?

Satan is not doing a very good job of being bound, look around.

Hope in Glory really believes this? This is what we have been discussing?

Oh my gosh. I feel dumb for even posting on this. I thought we were just trying to take that Generation part and get it sorted.

reba;822850[B said:
]Brother Mike I don't know if you are being sincere are just trying to get a reaction....[/B]

Pretersim like most every thing else has degrees of variations etc. I am surprised that JLB would say the above when he
has been told over and over it is not so. Orthodox pretersim believers like other Christians await the return of Christ. They believe the Great White Throne judgment is coming. and a few other things... many different folks of many denominations believe His kingdom is now many believe it is not... Ask "hope of Glory' what he believes .

Full preterest on the other hand fit the words of this 'sticky"

Being serious to get a reaction? Wow........... nice, anyway I'll overlook that comment.

What are we talking about here, What JBL said or the watered down versions?

Rebba I believe the Kingdom of God is now and operating on earth. Jesus said it was, and connected it to casting out
devils. They will be done on earth as it is in heaven the whole chapt of Matt 6 was about Thy Kingdom Come, they will be done ........... On Earth as it is in Heaven. God's way of doing things, His operation and will are tied up in the Kingdom of God. That is why some of what Hope IN Glory was saying made sense to me.

However, Scotch watered down is still going to taste Like scotch. I had no idea people believed it all came to pass already, and I don't know what anyone believes now but JBL.

I don't need any reaction Rebba. I am dropping out of the thread.

Mike.
Brother Mike

I don't believe what JLB inferred I believe.

I believe future resurrection
I believe future bodily return of the Lord
I believe some prophecy must be fulfilled and the Word of God manifested
I believe in a overcoming church, the corporate Christ, the word of God made flesh
I believe the Church will put all enemies under foot
I believe the kingdom has come, and will forever continue to increase in government and peace
Ect........

I have told JLB that I do not believe "full preterism" many times, he has acted in an unrighteous manner to say I do, and to say that is what your dealing with when speaking with me.

I am sickened by this.

I hope you will continue this thread, or begin another with me, it's been nice talking to you.
edited
Blessings
 
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reba

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I believe future resurrection
I believe future bodily return of the
Lord
I believe some prophecy must be fulfilled and the Word of God
manifested
I believe in a overcoming church, the corporate Christ, the word
of God made flesh
I believe the Church will put all enemies under foot
I
believe the kingdom has come, and will forever continue to increase in
government and peace
Thanks for the clarification. Being labeled or tagged as preterist but never having studied much about it is nice to have some one put things into perspective.
 

n2thelight

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Brother Mike

All the scripture as in "ALL"?

Is this what Hope in Glory believes? That all of it has come to pass?

Satan is not doing a very good job of being bound, look around.

HopAll the scripture as in "ALL"?

Is this what Hope in Glory believes? That all of it has come to pass?

Satan is not doing a very good job of being bound, look around.

Hope in Glory really believes this? This is what we have been discussing?

Oh my gosh. I feel dumb for even posting on this. I thought we were just trying to take that Generation part and get it sorted.
e in Glory really believes this? This is what we have been discussing?

Oh my gosh. I feel dumb for even posting on this. I thought we were just trying to take that Generation part and get it sorted.

Rebba I believe the Kingdom of God is now and operating on earth. Jesus said it was, and connected it to casting out devils. They will be done on earth as it is in heaven the whole chapt of Matt 6 was about Thy Kingdom Come, they will be done ........... On Earth as it is in Heaven. God's way of doing things, His operation and will are tied up in the Kingdom of God. That is why some of what Hope IN Glory was saying made sense to me.
Hello Mike

I just want to focus on the highlighted parts,my question for you is,do you believe satan would be allowed to operate in God's kingdom?
 

jasoncran

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that is ok but well I could argue that only small percentage of men will be saved. it all depends on how one says it. but 8 out of a million is nearly wiping out a species!
By the time Noah shut the door there were much less that 100,00 real humans left, as they were being wiped out by the giants.

JLB
where do you get the 100,000 humans,. the Talmud , the bible?
That would be Gentile folklore.

I guess since that you mostly post Jewery, and the traditions of Judaism and the Talmud, it is ok for me to post some Gentile stuff.


JLB
If it was gentile folklore and since well moses wasn't a gentile, can you tell me where you got it, since before the Babylonian Talmud there was something called the midrash? that has enoch and all the oral stories to it.
 

JLB

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I have told JLB that I do not believe "full preterism" many times, he has acted in an unrighteous manner to say I do, and to say that is what your dealing with when speaking with me.
Do you believe in the doctrines of Preterism?

I have not said you are a Full Preterist, because I don't use that term.

If you promote the doctrines of Preterism, then it would stand to reason you are a Preterist.

You seem to be set on teaching people That Jesus has already come in 70 AD, when the scripture teach us the resurrection happens when He comes.

False doctrine is false doctrine, whatever label you decide to dress it up with.


JLB
 

JLB

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No wonder Preterism has been marked as Heresy by this forum.
Preterism has not been marked as a heresy by this forum. Full Preterism has
Please answer my question.

You stated as to how there will be 144,000 left after the tribulation... That is your conclusion to the matter of the Great Tribulation, that it is all based on body count.

There is tribulation worse than death, which is the point of what Jesus said, when He stated these words -

For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.


The great tribulation will be worse than the flood of Noah's day -

In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them. Revelation 9:6

There is worse tribulation than death, which is the point that Jesus made when He said, such as has not been...

and again -

15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?" Revelation 6:15-17


Do you think this event is referring to 70 AD?

All the rich men, and commanders, and mighty men, and the kings of the earth hid themselves in caves, because the Romans were sacking Jerusalem.

Is that what you believe, Reba?


JLB
 

reba

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I don't understand what your question is JLB.

I will try and answer any way.... Simply put I believe The Olivet discourse was/is about the finial end to the "time of the temple worship" From reading the OT seems to me God always told the Israelites when calamity was coming....I believe the Words of Christ( Olivet discourse ) was that prophesy ... I believe it happened in the time frame of 70 AD. I believe when Jesus said 'this generation' He meant the generation He was bodily speaking too.

Do I believe there is tribulation worse than bodily death? Yes

I believe God used the Romans to do His bidding just like in past times He used the Egyptians, etc. It was God who exceled The Children and Danial He used Nebuchadnezzar and his army...

Hope that answers your question....
 

JLB

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I don't understand what your question is JLB.

I will try and answer any way.... Simply put I believe The Olivet discourse was/is about the finial end to the "time of the temple worship" From reading the OT seems to me God always told the Israelites when calamity was coming....I believe the Words of Christ( Olivet discourse ) was that prophesy ... I believe it happened in the time frame of 70 AD. I believe when Jesus said 'this generation' He meant the generation He was bodily speaking too.

Do I believe there is tribulation worse than bodily death? Yes

I believe God used the Romans to do His bidding just like in past times He used the Egyptians, etc. It was God who exceled The Children and Danial He used Nebuchadnezzar and his army...

Hope that answers your question....
It doesn't.


15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?" Revelation 6:15-17


Do you think this event is referring to 70 AD? That All the rich men, and commanders, and mighty men, and the kings of the earth hid themselves in caves, because the Romans were sacking Jerusalem.


JLB
 

Atonement

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Greetings to you in the love of Jesus

I'm curious Reba..

How would you interpret Matthew 24:14? And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The Church had just started in this generation. Can one be suggesting that the work of the Holy Spirit was no longer available after 70 AD? I ask this because we know that in the latter times when the rapture does happen, the Holy Spirit must 1st be removed before the appearing of the Antichrist - therefore if all this happened near or around 70 AD - the Holy Spirit would not be moving within Church's today, unless there is a Scripture that suggest that the Holy Spirit comes back after the Tribulation?

Another question: Wasn't Jesus asked three questions in the Olivet discourse?

Matthew 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “(1) Tell us, when will these things be? (2) And what will be the sign of Your coming, (3) and of the end of the age?”

All three of these questions could not possibly be answered to the generation of 70 AD (impossible) .. I been reading this thread and I have not weighed in on it yet, soon though!

God Bless
 

Hope of glory

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I don't understand what your question is JLB.

I will try and answer any way.... Simply put I believe The Olivet discourse was/is about the finial end to the "time of the temple worship" From reading the OT seems to me God always told the Israelites when calamity was coming....I believe the Words of Christ( Olivet discourse ) was that prophesy ... I believe it happened in the time frame of 70 AD. I believe when Jesus said 'this generation' He meant the generation He was bodily speaking too.

Do I believe there is tribulation worse than bodily death? Yes

I believe God used the Romans to do His bidding just like in past times He used the Egyptians, etc. It was God who exceled The Children and Danial He used Nebuchadnezzar and his army...


Hope that answers your question....
Good word, when the heart shall turn to the Lord the vail shall be taken away!
 

reba

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JLB my most honest answer at this time is I don't know.
 

Hope of glory

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Greetings to you in the love of Jesus

I'm curious Reba..

How would you interpret Matthew 24:14? And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The Church had just started in this generation. Can one be suggesting that the work of the Holy Spirit was no longer available after 70 AD? I ask this because we know that in the latter times when the rapture does happen, the Holy Spirit must 1st be removed before the appearing of the Antichrist - therefore if all this happened near or around 70 AD - the
Holy Spirit would not be moving within Church's today, unless there is a Scripture that suggest that the Holy Spirit comes back after the Tribulation?

Another question: Wasn't Jesus asked three questions in the Olivet discourse?

Matthew 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “(1) Tell us, when will these things be? (2) And what will be the sign of Your coming, (3) and of the end of the age?”

All three of these questions could not possibly be answered to the generation of 70 AD (impossible) .. I been reading this thread and I have not weighed in on it yet, soon though!

God Bless
Hello Brother,

There are 3 Greek words translated as "world".
The one in Math.24:14 means "the habitable land, the occupied land).....which speaks of the Roman Empire who then ruled the "world" (search this out)

Paul also said in his letter to the Romans that the gospel had already been preached to "every creature under heaven" (before 70ad)

At Pentacost in Acts 2 Peter preached the gospel and there were present "Jews out of every nation under heaven"

The gospel of the kingdom was preached in all the "then known world" prior to 70ad, in 70ad the end of the age came, and the realization and understanding (seeing) that the Son of Man had "come in the clouds" (quotation from Daniel), was revealed!

All 3 question were answered and fulfilled before the generation of 70ad died......this generation will not pass until ALL THESE THINGS be fulfilled"

Blessings my friend!
 

reba

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Greetings to you in the love of Jesus

I'm curious Reba..

How would you interpret Matthew 24:14? And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The Church had just started in this generation. Can one be suggesting that the work of the Holy Spirit was no longer available after 70 AD? I ask this because we know that in the latter times when the rapture does happen, the Holy Spirit must 1st be removed before the appearing of the Antichrist - therefore if all this happened near or around 70 AD - the Holy Spirit would not be moving within Church's today, unless there is a Scripture that suggest that the Holy Spirit comes back after the Tribulation?

Another question: Wasn't Jesus asked three questions in the Olivet discourse?

Matthew 24:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “(1) Tell us, when will these things be? (2) And what will be the sign of Your coming, (3) and of the end of the age?â€

All three of these questions could not possibly be answered to the generation of 70 AD (impossible) .. I been reading this thread and I have not weighed in on it yet, soon though!

God Bless
Rom_1:8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.


Paul's use of the words 'whole world' makes me wonder how the phrase ( preached in all the world) was understood at the time..

Also where in scripture do we find 'the antichrist' ?

1Jn_2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1Jn_2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jn_1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Not one of the verses that speak of antichrist are speaking of a one man leader.

Atonement... I have never clamed to have the answers I have tons of questions ....At one time I believed just about exactly what you posted... Dispensational teaching was part of my foundation as a child until about 15 years ago... then I saw this and that in scripture.. like cant find one mention of antichrist in The Revelation so the questions set in... IMO end times is not unto salvation .... got to do chores :)
 
E

Elijah674

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Was not Christ the author of Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl.3:15 along with Gen. 41:32! (for how God works)
So it took a two time application to do the Matt. 24:14 work. For it was Paul who stated correctly that the Gospel had gone to the ends of the earth. Rom. 10:18 + Col. 1:23.

Do you think that any that knew of Christ's Word in Matt. 24:14 were shaken when it did not come to pass as they had expected the first time around? (the date was about AD 60)

About the same thing happened in 1844 with Adventism.

--Elijah
 

Hope of glory

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JLB my most honest answer at this time is I don't know.
Reba

"And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree fastest her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heavens departed as a scroll when it is rolled together, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of
His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?" Revelation 6:13-17

If verses 13 and 14 are taken "literally" then there would be no earth, or rocks to hide in.

Could this scripture refer to "taking refuge" in Christ?
This scripture is also quoting Isa.2 "enter into the Rock....

The seals have been opened, Jesus opened the new covenant and the revelation of Christ for us 2000 years ago!
The little book is the new covenant-the revelation of Jesus Christ......the seals have been opened by the death of the Lamb and the kingdom of God has come!

Imagine believing that the stars of heaven actually fall to the earth, and yet there are still people living and hiding in mountains on the earth?
Some stars are thousands if not millions of times larger than earth......
To read the Revelation "totally literal" is to enter into total biblical confusion.

I like you do not pretend yo understand all of the book of Revelation because it is a "spiritual book" which can only be spiritually discerned.
I think why the futuristic dispensational interpretation of it is so popular is because it's a literal natural understanding, by the letter, and not by the Spirit and it is easily understood by the carnal mind. People like to be able to say "that's it, we have it figured out". Anyone and I mean anyone can understand the revelation from a literal futuristic
perspective....there is no Spirit in that!
It is a spiritual high symbolic book.....the revelation of Jesus Christ, not the revelation of Antichrist, the false prophet and whatever else......it's the revelation of Christ (and Christ is both head and body)!

Blessings Reba!

Blessings
 
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reba

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My Husband was calling , I had to run so I did not take the time to read the verse in context....:sad Context sure can open a view to things... I will research a bit and let ya know what I think...



the revelation of Jesus Christ, not the revelation of Antichrist,
Amen
 

turnorburn

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Here's your Antichrist reba..

Founders of "Mainline" Churches Knew Who Anti-Christ Was

Issue Date: August/September 1984

The following quotes show just how far the churches of today have strayed from the wisdom of their founding fathers.

Martin Luther
(1483-1546) (Lutheran)

"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist." (Aug. 18, 1520) Taken from "The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers," Vol. 2, pg. 121 by Froom.

John Calvin
(1509-1564) (Presbyterian)

"Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt...I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy." Taken from "Institutes" by John Calvin.

Cotton Mather
(1663-1728) (Congregational Theologian)

"The oracles of God foretold the rising of an Antichrist in the Christian Church; and in the Pope of Rome, all the characteristics of that Antichrist are so marvelously answered that if any who read the Scriptures do not see it, there is a marvelous blindness upon them." Taken from "The Fall of Babylon" by Cotton Mather in Froom's book "The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers," Vol. 3, pg. 113.

John Knox
(1505-1572) (Scotch Presbyterian)

Knox wrote to abolish "that tyranny which the pope himself has for so many ages exercised over the church" and that the pope should be recognized as "the very antichrist, and son of perdition, of whom Paul speaks." Taken from "The Zurich Letters" pg. 199 by John Knox.

Thomas Cranmer
(1489-1556) (Anglican)

"Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons." (Referring to prophecies in Revelation and Daniel.) Taken from "Works" by Cranmer, Vol. 1, pp. 6-7.

John Wesley
(1703-1791) (Methodist)

Speaking of the Papacy he said, "He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers...He it is...that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped...claiming the highest power, and highest honor...claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone." Taken from "Antichrist and His Ten Kingdoms" by John Wesley, pg. 110.

Roger William
(1603-1683) (First Baptist Pastor in America)

He spoke of the Pope as "the pretended Vicar of Christ on earth, who sits as God over the Temple of God, exalting himself not only above all that is called God, but over the souls and consciences of all his vessals, yea over the Spirit of Christ, over the Holy Spirit, yea, and God himself...speaking against the God of heaven, thinking to changed times and laws: but he is the son of perdition (II Thess. 2)." Taken from "The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers" by Froom, Vol. 3, pg. 52.
Quoted from GREAT PROPHECIES OF THE BIBLE by Woodrow.
 

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