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Is futurism dying

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The expression "from now on" means "from this time onward.

Like in the future.
I already indicated what it means. The expression "from now on" means "from this time onward."

Jesus told Caiaphas that he would see Christ come. If Caiaphas did not see Christ come, then Jesus was a false prophet and you have no hope.

But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.†Matthew 26:64 ESV

Milton S. Terry (1898)

"Matthew reads (xxvi, 64), 'From this time ... ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.' We maintain that this language cannot be naturally interpreted as a reference to an event belonging to a far distant period of time. It is something that is to take place from this time onward, and something which the high priest and his associates are to see.

We quote with great satisfaction the comment of Gould in the International Critical Commentary on Mark (p. 252): 'This settles two things: first, that the coming is not a single event, any more than the sitting on the right hand of power; and second, that it was a thing which was to begin with the very time of our Lord's departure from the world. Moreover, the two things, the sitting on the right hand of power, and the coming are connected in such a way as to mean that he is to assume power in heaven and exercise it here in the world. The period beginning with the departure of Jesus from the world was to be marked by this assumption of heavenly power by the Christ, and by repeated interferences in crises of the world's history, of which the destruction of Jerusalem was the first' (Milton Terry, Biblical Apocalyptics, pp. 222-223).


[COLOR=#b0ac0]Okay, so I have defined "from now on" TWICE now. :)[/COLOR]
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Second, Prterism gives a solid defense for the credibility of the bible and shuts the mouths of the bible's critics.

The Olivet discourse which is Matthew 24:3 -25:46, there is no mention of the destruction of the city and sanctuary.

So any verse or phrase mentioned has no context of the events of 70 AD.


JLB
Wow! I can't believe you said that. Luke's account of the Olivet Discourse CLEARLY mentions the destruction of the city.

But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near" Luke 21:20.

Matthew's and Mark's accounts begin with the destruction of the temple (and by extension the sanctuary). Careless observations such as yours is why futurism is dying.
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Paul promised the Thessalonians that that Christ would return from heaven to give them relief from their persecutors

When did this happen?

70 AD?

Titus went on to become the emperor of Rome as a conquering hero.

The resurrection of the dead is at the end of the age, when Christ returns to gather His people.



JLB
Paul CLEARLY told the Thessalonians that they would get relief from their persecutions "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven" (2 Thess. 1:3-8). He did NOT say that they would get relief by death.
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

There are no "Gentiles" left since everyone can trace their lineage back to a Jew. And likewise there are no Jews, since every Jew could find a Gentile in their lineage.

The athiest's last statement in bold is true. God judged Israel by dispersing them and making their house "desolate" just as Jesus said. He caused their blood to mix with the blood of ALL the races. We are ALL one blood today!

This is not the most knowledgeable statement I have ever heard. If that Christian could not respond to the bold statement above, then they don't know their Bible, OR I'm completely off and don't either.
Jesus was a Jew, and Jesus had at least one Gentile in His bloodline. "Ruth". = Obed = Jesse = David, ..... Jesus.
I gave only an excerpt from one post from that athiests entire argument.

Even though a Jew with diluted blood is still a Jew (and also a Gentile), they are NOT of any particular tribe. The whole point was to be able to trace your lineage back directly to your tribe. There can be no future sealing for salvation from the twelve tribes of Israel because there are no particular tribes today. This is why there are no priests in Judaism today, because there is no tribe of Levi today. Therefore, the sealing for salvation from the twelve tribes of Israel in Revelation 7 had to be fulfilled BEFORE God dispersed them in ad70. Chapter one says the things which John saw were to "SHORTLY come to pass." There is your harmonization!

Please pay attention. The Jewish race is no longer a distinct race. ALL mankind is a mixture of Jewish and Gentile blood.

Also, where is this info. coming from that all Jews are mixed with other bloodlines. That seems to me to be a presumptuous statement.
It is anthropological fact. Please do the research.

What needs to be understood is that modern Israel is not the Israel of scripture, they are not the descendants of Abraham. There is no race of Jews today! The Encyclopedia Britannica (Vol. 12, p. 1054) 1973 says, "The findings of physical anthropology show that, contrary to the popular view, there is no Jewish race."Jewish author, Camille Honig, editor of The Jewish Voice, wrote (Nov, 1953),"It is sheer nonsense, as well as unscientific, to speak of a Jewish race. Jews do not belong to a single homogeneous group."

"your house will be left to you desolate" is that the proof text for the above statement
Yeap!

I don't accept the futurist's "head in sand" apologetics when it comes to eschatology. Futurists invoke the sciences when it comes to Creationism. But they deny the sciences in their eschatology. One Futurist even said that God will "miraculously" make the tribes appear at Christ's coming. Such an explanation is NOT a rational defense. It is a copout.

Blessings
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

don't accept the futurist's "head in sand" apologetics when it comes to eschatology. Futurists invoke the sciences when it comes to Creationism. But they deny the sciences in their eschatology. One Futurist even said that God will "miraculously" make the tribes appear at Christ's coming. Such an explanation is NOT a rational defense. It is a copout.

Every eye will see Him is the plain and clear truth.

This did not happen in 70 AD.

The resurrection of the dead will occur when he returns, whereby even the those who have died will see Him.

Full Preterism is Heresy, brother.

Please do not advocate the teachings of Full Preterism here, as they are not welcome at this Forum!


JLB
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

He did NOT say that they would get relief by death.

Their relief will come because those who trouble them will be put to death by the Lord Himself.

Titus was not put to death.

7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8

Was Titus and the roman army punished with everlasting destruction in 70 AD?

I will help you with that.

No! Titus went on to become the Emperor of Rome.


JLB
 
Is Futurism dying?

Yes.

Every day we get a little closer to the Day when The future return of the Lord appears.

Every day futurism dies a little more.

The Day when the future return of our Lord and the resurrection occurs is the Day when futurism will be dead.

A perfect title to this thread.


JLB
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Their relief will come because those who trouble them will be put to death by the Lord Himself.

So your contention is that the 1st century Thessalonians are STILL suffering persecution from those that trouble them?, and that the very people living in the 1st century who were persecuting the Thessalonians are still alive and kickin today?
 
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Is Futurism dying?

Yes.

Every day we get a little closer to the Day when The future return of the Lord appears.

Every day futurism dies a little more.

The Day when the future return of our Lord and the resurrection occurs is the Day when futurism will be dead.

A perfect title to this thread.


JLB

Which is yet another reason why I maintain ALL Christians are preterist, we only vary by degree.
And Now JLB affirms that eventually, ALL Christians will be FULL preterists, no matter what eschatologic position they hold today.

Ti-i-i-ime is on my side...yes it is...
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Every eye will see Him is the plain and clear truth.


And again I ask, The same was God's actual Physical ARM was "seen by every Eye" in OT times?

[FONT=&quot]Isaiah 52:10
Jehovah hath made bare his holy arm IN THE EYES OF ALL NATIONS;


[/FONT]
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Paul CLEARLY told the Thessalonians that they would get relief from their persecutions "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven" (2 Thess. 1:3-8). He did NOT say that they would get relief by death.

Which leaves 3 possibilities:

1) Jesus did indeed come and repay those who persecuted them, giving the 1st century Thessalonians the very "relief" He promised THEM "via His Coming".

2) Jesus Did NOT come and give relief to those 1st century Thessalonians and now today those very people are somehow still suffering and waiting for relief from persecution, and their persecutors are still persecuting them today.

3) Jesus lied to the 1st century Thessalonians when he promised THEM relief "via His coming", then didn't come to them after all, and they all got their relief from the then present persecution via their own death instead.
 
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Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Their relief will come because those who trouble them will be put to death by the Lord Himself.

So your contention is that the 1st century Thessalonians are STILL suffering persecution from those that trouble them?

My contention is that when He comes in that Day, He will destroy...

9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 2 Thessalonians 1:9-10

He hasn't Come.

If He had He would have destroyed Titus and his army, if Titus was ib fact the prince who is to come.

because he wasn't destroyed, then clearly Jesus hasn't come.

What remains is Full Preterism is Heresy.

When Jesus returns to gather His people at the resurrection, the the end will come.


JLB
 
Is Futurism dying?

Yes.

Every day we get a little closer to the Day when The future return of the Lord appears.

Every day futurism dies a little more.

The Day when the future return of our Lord and the resurrection occurs is the Day when futurism will be dead.

A perfect title to this thread.


JLB

Which is yet another reason why I maintain ALL Christians are preterist, we only vary by degree.
And Now JLB affirms that eventually, ALL Christians will be FULL preterists, no matter what eschatologic position they hold today.

Ti-i-i-ime is on my side...yes it is...

The problem with your statement is Full Preterism is Heresy and will always be Heresy, and will be fully realized as Heresy when Jesus Christ returns at the end of the age.

Because Full Preterism teaches Jesus has came in 70 AD.

What will be realized by Heretics on that Day is what Paul wrote -

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: ...heresies, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

Time is on your side if you repent before that Day.


JLB
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Every eye will see Him is the plain and clear truth.


And again I ask, The same was God's actual Physical ARM was "seen by every Eye" in OT times?

[FONT=&quot]Isaiah 52:10
Jehovah hath made bare his holy arm IN THE EYES OF ALL NATIONS;


[/FONT]

10 The Lord has made bare His holy arm In the eyes of all the nations; And all the ends of the earth shall see The salvation of our God. Isaiah 52:10


Had the Lord become a flesh and blood Man when this prophecy was given?


JLB
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Their relief will come because those who trouble them will be put to death by the Lord Himself.

So your contention is that the 1st century Thessalonians are STILL suffering persecution from those that trouble them?

My contention is that when He comes in that Day, He will destroy...

9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed. 2 Thessalonians 1:9-10

He hasn't Come.

So are the 1st Century Tessalonians STILL suffering Torment from their Persecutors today?

If He had He would have destroyed Titus and his army, if Titus was ib fact the prince who is to come.

Jesus is Messiah the Prince who is to come of Daniel... In 66 AD, the people of the prince (Jews) rebelled and went against the Romans. What happened? The city was destroyed. Did they do it directly? Well, no one knows exactly who torched the temple. But, either way, the actions of the Jewish people in Jerusalem brought down the fury of the Roman armies. Whether the Jews burned it or the Romans did is rather a moot point, as the Jews themselves were responsible for their own destruction.
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Every eye will see Him is the plain and clear truth.


And again I ask, The same was God's actual Physical ARM was "seen by every Eye" in OT times?

[FONT=&quot]Isaiah 52:10
Jehovah hath made bare his holy arm IN THE EYES OF ALL NATIONS;


[/FONT]

10 The Lord has made bare His holy arm In the eyes of all the nations; And all the ends of the earth shall see The salvation of our God. Isaiah 52:10


Had the Lord become a flesh and blood Man when this prophecy was given?


JLB


The Text is Clear. Gods ARM was made visible to EVERY EYE.
Do you disagree?
 
How did i end up in this forum Preterism is another one of those doctrines of D _ _ _ _ S another sign of the times those last day signs. Devil never stops trying to destroy a persons hope does he.

tob
 
Because Full Preterism teaches Jesus has came in 70 AD.

What will be realized by Heretics on that Day is what Paul wrote -

Well, what is to be labeled a futurist? Such a term is absurd. The preterist removes the judgment of man, plays down the violent destruction that is coming. Taking Rev 12 and saying that has come to past and rev 1-3 saying it has come to past is not partial preterism. Saying the 6th seal is yet to come is not futurist but scripture.

For a partial preterist to say someone is a futurist then they would have to believe a futurist does not believe Jesus died on the cross yet as a partial preterist believes Jesus already came and the 6th seal is past.

Is futurism dying? that is not the question, the question is, is false teaching gaining strength and needs a label for those that believe scriptures?


See, even believing in Post or Pre trib does not diminish the 6th seal or Jesus coming. You need to really be messed up to at least not be in one of those camps.

Mike.
 
Re: pre trib rapture a dangerous ploy to deceive

Every eye will see Him is the plain and clear truth.


And again I ask, The same was God's actual Physical ARM was "seen by every Eye" in OT times?

[FONT=&quot]Isaiah 52:10
Jehovah hath made bare his holy arm IN THE EYES OF ALL NATIONS;


[/FONT]

10 The Lord has made bare His holy arm In the eyes of all the nations; And all the ends of the earth shall see The salvation of our God. Isaiah 52:10


Had the Lord become a flesh and blood Man when this prophecy was given?


JLB


The Text is Clear. Gods ARM was made visible to EVERY EYE.
Do you disagree?

I disagree.

The Lord was a Spirit at that time.


Since then He became flesh and has a glorified natural body that can eat, yet walk through walls. That can been seen by Humans.


JLB
 
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