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Is God a "TRINITY"?

Is God a "TRINITY"?

  • I John 5:1-21.

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  • Ephesians 4:4-6.

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Jim Parker

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There you have it, the theology of Jim Parker... Zechariah stretched out the heavens and formed the spirit within man.
I never said anything like that.

Please do not "put words in my mouth."
 

JLB

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I never said anything like that.

Please do not "put words in my mouth."
You put "your words", in "your mouth" by saying the following, when asked who it was who spoke through the mouth of Zechariah the prophet.

By claiming it was Zechariah speaking and not The Lord, YHWH, the One who stretched out the heavens...


Who spoke these words through the mouth of Zechariah?
Zachariah of course.

Who speaks through your mouth???? :confused2:)

iakov the fool

JLB
 

Jim Parker

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You put "your words", in "your mouth" by saying the following, when asked who it was who spoke through the mouth of Zechariah the prophet.

By claiming it was Zechariah speaking and not The Lord, YHWH, the One who stretched out the heavens...
So you see God as a ventriloquist and Zechariah as His puppet. (sigh)

I did not say That Zechariah was not inspired by the Lord to speak or that he just made up stuff to say.

It was Zechariah speaking and it was the Lord who inspired his words.
 

JLB

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So you see God as a ventriloquist and Zechariah as His puppet. (sigh)

I did not say That Zechariah was not inspired by the Lord to speak or that he just made up stuff to say.

It was Zechariah speaking and it was the Lord who inspired his words.
No sir!

It was the Lord Himself, YHWH who spoke these words in the first person, through the mouth of Zechariah.

Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: 10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Zechariah 12:1, 10

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11


... the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ.



JLB
 

Jim Parker

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It was the Lord Himself, YHWH who spoke these words in the first person, through the mouth of Zechariah.
Ah! So you think Zechariah was a loudspeaker. God just circumvented Zechariah's brain and borrowed his mouth. Is that how you see all the prophets, as essentially puppets of God?

Thus says the Lord
In the words "thus says the Lord", the word "Lord" is in the third person. Therefore, it is a report of what the Lord revealed to Zechariah not the Lord operating Zechariah's lungs, mouth and vocal chords..

If it were the Lord using Zechariah as a loud speaker, the word "Lord" would have been in the first person He would have said something like, "I, the Lord say."

I hope that helps.

iakov the fool
:boing
 
Last edited:

OzSpen

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:thumbsup

There you have it, the theology of Jim Parker... Zechariah stretched out the heavens and formed the spirit within man.

The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him:
“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Zechariah 12:1,10

I will let Peter answer for me...

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11
JLB
JLB,

Don't forget to add this information from 2 Peter into your mix:

' knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit' (2 Pet 1:20-21 ESV).​

We can understand a prophecy of, 'Thus says the Lord', but the prophecy comes through men who spoke from God - men were involved.
 

Jim Parker

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JLB,

Don't forget to add this information from 2 Peter into your mix:

' knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit' (2 Pet 1:20-21 ESV).​

We can understand a prophecy of, 'Thus says the Lord', but the prophecy comes through men who spoke from God - men were involved.
Yes! And it is worthy to note that Peter said, "men spoke FROM God". It does not say "God spoke using men's mouths."

The idea of God personally speaking through a human's mouth (other than Jesus' mouth) suggests to me a kind of possession by the Holy Spirit during which the human has no control over his mouth.

I don't believe that is what happens during prophesy.

jim
 

JLB

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JLB,

Don't forget to add this information from 2 Peter into your mix:

' knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone's own interpretation. 21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit' (2 Pet 1:20-21 ESV).​

We can understand a prophecy of, 'Thus says the Lord', but the prophecy comes through men who spoke from God - men were involved.
20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. 2 Peter 1:20-21

Men were involved... Their mouths were moved, and their vocal cords gave sound as The Lord spoke through them...

The same Peter said -

searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:11

He testified beforehand...

Who does He refer to in this verse, that testified, which means to speak?


Who testified by these words through the mouth of Zechariah?

“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Zechariah 12:10



JLB
 

Roro1972

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No sir!

It was the Lord Himself, YHWH who spoke these words in the first person, through the mouth of Zechariah.

Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: 10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
Zechariah 12:1, 10

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11


... the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ.



JLB
also consider this.

John1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
 

Jim Parker

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Men were involved... Their mouths were moved, and their vocal cords gave sound as The Lord spoke through them..
.
There is no indication that it was God Who was speaking rather then the prophet whom God inspired.

The word "moved" (phero) does not indicate that God was o=manipulating their jaws and vocal chords. The word "phero" has the meaning of "carried along".

It communicates inspiration not manipulation.

BUt I think you've made up your mind and will not be swayed by mere facts. :)

enjoy!

iakov the fool
:boing
 
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Is God a "TRINITY"? I John 5:1-21.
Professing Christians believe that God is a Trinity. They have been taught this doctrine in Sunday School, they sing of it in their hymns, and their pastors and teachers emphasize it continually. They recite it often in the Nicean creed, which forms the basis of belief of many Protestant Churches, as well as the Roman Catholic Church.
Yes. The name of God is Father, Son and Holy Ghost (singular). Jesus before His incarnation was the God of the OT. Only God can forgive sin.
 

Jim Parker

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Jesus before His incarnation was the God of the OT.
John 1:1 says that He was "with God" and "was God." That's not the same thing as being "the God of the OT" Who alone is God.

The "God of the OT" is defined by the revelation of the OT. The revelation of God in the NT is a fuller revelation.

Only God can forgive sin.
Really. The you better remove this verse from your Bible: Mat 6:14 “For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you."

And run your Sharpie over this one too: Mat 18:35 So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart."

iakov the fool
:boing
 

WIP

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Really. The you better remove this verse from your Bible: Mat 6:14 “For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you."

And run your Sharpie over this one too: Mat 18:35 So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart."

iakov the fool
:boing
Just a thought. I see a difference between man forgiving another man's transgression against him vs God forgiving our transgressions against both men and God. In other words, the verses you mentioned above seem to be referencing man to man transgressions but not sin in its entirety. Unless there is other Scripture that shows otherwise, I'm inclined to believe that man cannot forgive sins against God.
 
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John 1:1 says that He was "with God" and "was God." That's not the same thing as being "the God of the OT" Who alone is God.

The "God of the OT" is defined by the revelation of the OT. The revelation of God in the NT is a fuller revelation.



Really. The you better remove this verse from your Bible: Mat 6:14 “For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you."

And run your Sharpie over this one too: Mat 18:35 So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart."

iakov the fool
:boing
Not the same thing.
 
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John 1:1 says that He was "with God" and "was God." That's not the same thing as being "the God of the OT" Who alone is God.

The "God of the OT" is defined by the revelation of the OT. The revelation of God in the NT is a fuller revelation.



Really. The you better remove this verse from your Bible: Mat 6:14 “For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you."

And run your Sharpie over this one too: Mat 18:35 So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart."

iakov the fool
:boing
Can you resolve and forgive my sins that justifies me before the Father because you have paid the righteous demand of the Law? No! Can you raise the dead? No! Can you forgive your fellow man that trespassed against you? Yes! Can you guarantee and seal me with the Holy Spirit? No! There is only by one mans name that man might be saved. (Acts 4:12)
 

Jim Parker

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Just a thought. I see a difference between man forgiving another man's transgression against him vs God forgiving our transgressions against both men and God. In other words, the verses you mentioned above seem to be referencing man to man transgressions but not sin in its entirety. Unless there is other Scripture that shows otherwise, I'm inclined to believe that man cannot forgive sins against God.
Sins are against man. Our sins have an affect upon others, they cause damage. They have no affect upon God. He is not damaged by anything we do.

Sin, by definition, is "missing the mark." Paul renders it, falling short of the glory of God. The attaining and maintaining of the Glory of God is our "mark," our "target." We have been given God's glory (John 17:22) and we are to reveal that glory to the world. (Mat 5:16) When we fail to do so by acting contrary to God's will, we fall short of our goal of revealing God glory by our obedience to God's good and perfect will for us. That is what sin is.

When we ask someone for forgiveness we must confess our sin against him. To be sincere that request must include sorrow for our sin and repentance. Those conditions fulfill God's requirements for forgiveness: If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1Jo 1:9) And if we forgive, God forgives. (Mat 6:14)

iakov the fool
:boing
 

Jim Parker

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Can you resolve and forgive my sins that justifies me before the Father because you have paid the righteous demand of the Law? No! Can you raise the dead? No! Can you forgive your fellow man that trespassed against you? Yes! Can you guarantee and seal me with the Holy Spirit? No! There is only by one mans name that man might be saved. (Acts 4:12)
To what is this rant in reference?
 

WIP

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Sins are against man. Our sins have an affect upon others, they cause damage. They have no affect upon God. He is not damaged by anything we do.
These verses from Exodus 20:2-7 NKJV come to mind.

“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
“You shall have no other gods before Me.
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.“You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
 

Jim Parker

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These verses from Exodus 20:2-7 NKJV come to mind.

“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
“You shall have no other gods before Me.
“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.“You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
OK. And why do those words come to mind? :confused

iakov the fool
:boing
 

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