What's new
Christian Forums

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Do not use Chrome Incognito when registering as it freezes the registration page.
  • Online forum for sale. Please send Stovebolts PM for details. https://meetchristians.net
  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • No longer will OSAS vx OSNAS be allowed to be debated, argued, or discussed in theology forum. Too much time is required to monitor and rescources used to debate this subject which hasn't been definitively decided in 3,000 years.

IS GOD STILL SOVEREIGN?

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
15,716
Gender
Female
Does God lose any amount of His sovereignty
by allowing us to have Free Will?

Or does it make Him more sovereign?0
 

jerry63935

 
Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
1,081
Gender
Male
Does God lose any amount of His sovereignty
by allowing us to have Free Will?
nope we was created to have free will. peter wrote he has given us all things His divine power has given us everything required for life and godliness through the knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness. the rest is up to us. just like stay at home order. it goes out monday.but the bigger city next to us. is full of people . they dont listen ..sometimes neither do we
 

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
15,716
Gender
Female
nope we was created to have free will. peter wrote he has given us all things His divine power has given us everything required for life and godliness through the knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness. the rest is up to us. just like stay at home order. it goes out monday.but the bigger city next to us. is full of people . they dont listen ..sometimes neither do we
Some believe that God, being a Sovereign God, must control everything...
this is determinism, or predestination.

They believe that if God is NOT in complete control of EVERYTHING,
then He would not be a Sovereign God.

What is a defense against this?
 

jerry63935

 
Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
1,081
Gender
Male
Some believe that God, being a Sovereign God, must control everything...
he does have control we dont understand his ways proverbs 3
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil.

8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

the things in Bold can be a big task
 

jasonc

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
39,645
Christian
Yes
God is omniscient, omnipotent, and time cannot control him....

There is no thwarting God.
Why do the arminists have a problem with that ?

God Alllows free will to deny him.

I can't allow something like only he can .God allows sin ,and at He leisure he will end sin once in the judgement ,he gave man space to repent ,

These speak of control to me .
 

jasonc

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
39,645
Christian
Yes
I will add,did any billionaire make his money and create his empire without knowledge or allowance from God.

Does man at birth create himself?
 

jasonc

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
39,645
Christian
Yes
The opening implies that God isn't sovereign in that man can choose,control his fate.

We have the ability even in the reformed to be free moral agents .

God appointed our times to die .
 

jerry63935

 
Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
1,081
Gender
Male
he opening implies that God isn't sovereign in that man can choose,control his fate.
i know what it says this is another thread for personal gain .i cant change reformed believers nor more than they can change me . it mazes me how so have to keep the flame burning . my doctrine is more correct than yours . for anyone to say God is not sovereign needs read the Bible the word sovereign is not even in the Bible ,but the defeintion is shown in scripture
 

jerry63935

 
Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
1,081
Gender
Male
God appointed our times to die .
yes he did a good friend bro in the Lord passed this morning. he had been battling infection in his foot and leg . we prayed together when he was first in the hospital . he words when he said he was coming home. appreciate your concern it will be ok just tired . every thing from his 2nd coming to our salvation to our death is all in his hands . i have seen spiritual miscarriages at the altar God was not in it
 

jasonc

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
39,645
Christian
Yes
i know what it says this is another thread for personal gain .i cant change reformed believers nor more than they can change me . it mazes me how so have to keep the flame burning . my doctrine is more correct than yours . for anyone to say God is not sovereign needs read the Bible the word sovereign is not even in the Bible ,but the defeintion is shown in scripture
I am not reformed but I do understand the concept of Calvin on free will.

God being outside of time already knows our life,from birth and death .

This argument is really over how God moves in something he created .how God moves to save man and deals with the lost,the devil.

Nothing we can do is gonna surprise God ,one argues that man has a will ,the other says it limited by God ,and interpreted as God has no will .thus side also sees that man and God aren't equal to each other while claiming Arminism does.

Man wants to live forever ,God doesn't have desire that for he is eternal timeless ,limitless
 

jasonc

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
39,645
Christian
Yes
Wondering face death numerous times and have God tell you its not your time and then tell me God doesn't determine the time and steps of your life .he allows us to fail ,to walk away ,he lets us ,gasp self destruct ,not wanting any to be lost but allows men to choose Satan ,he has the ability ti turn us back if we listen
 

OzSpen

C F Martin D28 acoustic guitar
Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2014
Messages
5,302
Gender
Male
Christian
Yes
Does God lose any amount of His sovereignty
by allowing us to have Free Will?

Or does it make Him more sovereign?0
wondering,

What is your definition of sovereignty as it applies to an attribute of God?

Oz
 

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
15,716
Gender
Female
he does have control we dont understand his ways proverbs 3
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil.

8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.

the things in Bold can be a big task
Does God have complete control over everything?
Does He predetermine everything that happens?

I believe God allows everything that happens...
but does God CAUSE everything that happens?
 

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
15,716
Gender
Female
it dont matter what they say. what does the word say ?
There are some verses in the N.T. that DO make it sound as if God predestines everything.
This would have to mean that man has no free will.
 

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
15,716
Gender
Female
wondering,

What is your definition of sovereignty as it applies to an attribute of God?

Oz
Sovereignty would be like an earthly King.
It means that God rules over everything...He has the power to do as He wishes.

But I do NOT believe this removes our free will.

As far as I can understand,,,the very fact that God has given us Free Will is indicative of the fact that He is so sovereign that He does not FEAR giving us free will.

I believe that those that think God loses Sovereignty by giving us free will understand Him to be a weak God that cannot even handle that.

To me God is More Sovereign (if that could be possible) precisely because of our Free Will.
 
Top