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Bible Study Is hell eternal torment or just the end of existance?

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Wertbag

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I was watching a Christian ministry show on TV where the minister was attempting to show some confusion in the widely held belief that hell is eternal torment. He had come to the conclusion that hell and the lake of fire is correct, but that being tossed into the lake of fire was to destroy the soul and thereby end your existance rather than to continue punishing the person for ever.
I didn't get a chance to note the various scripture references he had, but his claim was that the word Hell in the Bible was translated differently in different versions, and that the most common translation should have been "grave" and not "hell". If that is correct then it would mean those judged unworthy would simply be destroyed or dead, whereas the choosen would live for eternity.
It did seem to fix the major problem of the punishment not fitting the crime. The guy believed the common idea of hell was inspired by Dante's writings and more recently from hollywood views.
Has anyone heard of this variation? Does it make sense?
 
Mr 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mr 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mr 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
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The suffering is eternal!
 
Do you know of any other scripture that supports eternal torment? Unquenched lake of fire would mean hell continues to exist but not necassarily the souls cast into it. The terms "eternal torment/suffering/punishment" don't appear in the KJV, but thats not to say a different term was not used.

Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Seems to say God can and will destroy the soul in hell.

Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Seems to describe hell as second death, not as eternal torment but perminent death.
 
evanman said:
Mr 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mr 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mr 9:48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Click to expand...

The suffering is eternal!
Click to expand...

That says the fire is eternal(if that is referring to hell), not that suffering is eternal.
 
There is another view that it will be a place void of God. That the fire represents judgement and is not literal. This view suggests that we will just wander apart from God and that in itself is hell. Giving you what you chose here on Earth, a life without God.
 
Darck,

That says the fire is eternal(if that is referring to hell), not that suffering is eternal.
Click to expand...

"Their worm dieth not"

Wertbag,

Rev. 20:14-15, "14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Notice that death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire before the people are. If death is done with with, how can anyone die?
 
Their Worm dieth not means that they remain consciously aware--sentient.
 
evanman said:
Their Worm dieth not means that they remain consciously aware--sentient.
Click to expand...

Doesn't appear that way to me. If they would be conscious, then why is a worm mentioned? Soul, mind, etc would be the evidence of eternal hell there.....

With the tiny scripture pieces you've given, I can't even tell if it refers to hell, especially an eternal one.
 
Barnes comments:
Their worm. This figure is clearly taken from #Isa 66:24. In describing the great prosperity of the kingdom of the Messiah, Isaiah says, that the people of God shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of men who have transgressed against God. Their enemies Shall be overcome. They shall be slain. The people of God shall triumph. The figure is taken from heaps of the dead slain in battle; and the prophet says, that the number shall be so great, that their worm--the worm feeding on the dead--shall not die, shall live long--as long as there are carcasses to be devoured; and that the fire which was used to burn the bodies of the dead shall continue long to burn, and shall not be extinguished till they are consumed. The figure, therefore, denotes great misery, and certain and terrible destruction. In these verses it is applied to the state beyond the grave, and is intended to denote that the destruction of the wicked will be awful, wide-spread, and eternal. It is not to be supposed that there will be any real worm in hell--perhaps no material fire. Nor can it be told what was particularly intended by the undying worm. There is no authority for applying it, as is often done, to remorse of conscience, any more than to any other of the pains and reflections of hell. It is a mere image of loathsome, dreadful, and eternal sufferings. In what that suffering will consist, it is probably beyond the power of any living mortal to imagine. The word "their," in the phrase "their worm," is used merely to keep up the image or figure. Dead bodies, putrefying in that valley, would be overrun with worms, while the fire was not confined to them, but spread to other objects, kindled by combustibles through all the valley. It is not meant, therefore, that every particular sufferer has a peculiar worm, or has particular sins that cause remorse of conscience. That is a truth; but it does not appear that it is intended to be taught here.

{x} "Where their worm" #Isa 66:24 Re 14:11
Click to expand...

Burkitt comments:
\Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched|. The image of the worm is taken from #Isa 66:24, and refers to those worms which feed upon the carcasses of men. The fire and worm can hardly be taken literally, for the two figures are incompatible--worms do not frequent fires. The two figures depict hell as a state of decay which is never completed and of burning which does not consume. Some regard the worm as a symbol of the gnawings of remorse, and the fire as a symbol of actual punishment.
Click to expand...
 
Well, too much inconsistency for me....My personal observation is that the unending hellc doctrine is a misinterpretation or misunderstanding of the message/picture to be conveyed by the Bible.

In fact, I've heard several times, that this refers to a garbage dump, and not hell in any way, and since a worm is being described...I would be inclined to agree that this is a description,image, or warning of hell, or not referring to it at all....
 
Strong's Ref. # 1067

Romanized geena
Pronounced gheh'-en-nah

of Hebrew origin [HSN1516 and HSN2011]; valley of (the son of) Hinnom; ge-henna (or Ge-Hinnom), a valley of Jerusalem, used (figuratively) as a name for the place (or state) of everlasting punishment:

KJV--hell.


"Place of Torment." The Valley of Hinnom, south-west of Jerusalem, where Solomon, king of Israel, built "a high place", or place of worship, for the gods Chemosh and Moloch. The valley came to be regarded as a place of abomination because some of the Israelites sacrificed their children to Moloch there. In a later period it was made a refuse dump and perpetual fires were maintained there to prevent pestilence. Thus, in the New Testament, Gehenna became synonymous with hell.

See 1 Kings 11:7, and 2 Kings 23:10
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/g/gehenna.html
 
In a later period it was made a refuse dump and perpetual fires were maintained there to prevent pestilence.
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There was a city dump where refuse was burned, where the carcass of a dead animal would be thrown and burned, as would the body of an evil man. Burial was something reserved for honorable men.

The wicked man was killed, stoned and he was taken out to the dump and his body was burned.

The image here is not of people burning forever in hell, but of their dead carcass on the city dump, where the fire never goes out and where worms don’t die, but feed plentifully, and turn into FLIES.
 
Greetings, I just came in because I read some of one of the articles and it touched on my belief. I don't believe that this means annihilation or eternal suffering. If the suffering is eternal, God's plan to reconcile all to Himself will not be accomplished. If it means the end of existence, death will continue to exist for all of eternity, and will not have been abolished. A second death leads to the conclusion that there is another death after the first death is cast into the lake of fire. Now, what is about? Consider that the book is a book of symbols. For example, can literal death be literally thrown into a lake of fire? God bless.
 
A second death leads to the conclusion that there is another death after the first death is cast into the lake of fire. Now, what is about?
Click to expand...
Apparently the first death is death of the body, second death is death of the soul.

The Bible does say God can "destroy both soul and body in hell." Surely as destruction of the soul is described therefore there cannot be eternal suffering as well?
 
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