Is obeying the Lord and His Commandments required for salvation?

[LovethroughDove]

Abide in him. He is the Word, so if you reject the Word......nothing of holiness is going to take root. If you remain in him, you will start to grow the faith that leads him to ask the Father to give you the Holy Spirit forever. But, your heart has to be accepting of the truth. Not your truth, be THE truth.

I am wholly convinced he does not give people the Holy Spirit if they cannot be trusted with it.

 

[LovethroughDove]

People he trusts with his Spirit.

Matthew 5:3-10

"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

 

[Fastfredy0]

1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. "

OK ... I cede the "IF" to you. John 1:1 to 2:2 is about "Communion" with Christ and not “Union”.
“Union” refers to the “eternal security” of the believer; “communion” refers abiding in Christ which depends upon agreement and agreement requires complete subjection of one to his superior; thus it is imperative that the commandments of the one shall be kept by the other. The "how can two walk together unless they are agreed" type thing. So communion, abiding, fellowship is tarnished to the degree was disobey .... the solution to disobedience (we all disobey) is confession.
Sorry, I should have explained previously using this route. I didn't consider the issue well.
The forum does not allow us to talk about OSAS so can't go further.

The question of this thread is if obedience to God's commands is necessary to being saved?

Part II
--Yes it is for those that "obey not" will be in flaming fire per 2 Thessalonians 1:8.

Again, I am in basic agreement with the statement. I have two minor issues:
1) Obedience is not quantified .... If perfect obedience is what is meant then no one will be saved. Now, how much disobedience is allowed is a grey area, but I am content to not have to define it exactly.
2) My main issue with the question Is obeying the Lord and His Commandments required for salvation? is maybe one of semantics; specifically the word "REQUIRED".
First, I believe that NO ONE WILL BE IN HEAVEN THAT DOES NOT OBEY GOD where 'obey' is short of perfection. (How short of perfection, I don't know). So, I think we agree on this, the most important concept. The only thing that bothers me is the word REQUIRED.
To me REQUIRED (need for a particular purpose) means I have to do something to be saved besides "believe". This is WORKS SALVATION. I doubt you believe in WORKS SALVATION as this is not a Roman Catholic site.

I state that you will always see in a Christian obedience to God (I think we agree on this), but this obedience is not a requirement of salvation, but a manifestation of salvation. It is because I BELIEVE that I obey ... it is not that I must obey (REQUIREMENT) to earn my salvation.
So I would answer in the affirmative if the question changed slightly from:
Is obeying the Lord and His Commandments required for salvation?
to
Is obeying the Lord and His Commandments always present in the saved?

Where does the Bible teach one can be saved while in continually disobeying God and outside of Christ? It does not.

Agreed

Where does the Bible teach disobedience identifies one with Christ clothing one in Christ's righteousness? It does not.

Agreed

Only by being in Christ and remaining in Christ can one be saved and being in and remaining in Christ takes continued obedience until one dies...as Paul.

Semantics issue. This is works salvation IMO for you have to obey to be saved.
I would re-state your proposition (ignoring the OSAS implication) as:
Only by being in Christ and remaining in Christ can one be saved and being in and remaining in Christ takes will be demonstrated/manifested by continued obedience until one dies...as Paul.

If you don't agree with me that is fine. Hopefully you can appreciate the subtle difference between your proposition and mine.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

... clarification requested.
I do not keep God's commandment "you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. "
.... your statement indicates that I am going to hell

Is it your claim the anyone that doesn't "love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. " goes to hell? Is so, have you kept that commandment?

... clarification requested.

Nobody but Jesus ever kept that Commandment ......lucky for us, nobody ever gets saved by “ Commandment Keeping”...... we get saved by God’s Mercy and our Faith That Jesus was who He said He was .....God in Flesh and the One that Saves us by taking the Punishment for our sins on the Cross and then Rising from the dead....

 

[JLB]

Nobody but Jesus ever kept that Commandment ......lucky for us, nobody ever gets saved by “ Commandment Keeping”...... we get saved by God’s Mercy and our Faith That Jesus was who He said He was .....God in Flesh and the One that Saves us by taking the Punishment for our sins on the Cross and then Rising from the dead....

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4


Are you familiar with the phrase “I know Him”?



JLB

 

[jerry63935]

“I know Him”

you be ya because i do know him from the free pardon of sin .

1 John 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. { doers of the word not hearers only }
if we fail and we will we have a advocate

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4



Please click on the “ expand” thingy......I goofed up somewhere...




Are you familiar with the phrase “I know Him”?
The Ascended Christ gives only TWO Commands —- Believe and Love.....Love is the Engine that drives Obedience .....both of these Commands will be fulfilled naturally if you have the Holy Spirit residing in you.....if you don’t have that Spirit, the Commands are meaningless . You are Lost anyway.Go out and have a ball—- this life is the only one you will ever know....


JLB

Yes....and I “ do” know Him—- He lives in my New Heart....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Please click on the “ expand” thingy in my two previous posts

 

[jerry63935]

why is the edit option not available?

 

[jerry63935]

obeying the Lord and His Commandments required for salvation?

we obey the call to be saved a lost man has no idea what his commandments are. we accept by faith

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

OK ... I cede the "IF" to you. John 1:1 to 2:2 is about "Communion" with Christ and not “Union”.
“Union” refers to the “eternal security” of the believer; “communion” refers abiding in Christ which depends upon agreement and agreement requires complete subjection of one to his superior; thus it is imperative that the commandments of the one shall be kept by the other. The "how can two walk together unless they are agreed" type thing. So communion, abiding, fellowship is tarnished to the degree was disobey .... the solution to disobedience (we all disobey) is confession.

Confession IS obedience. Confession is not an option, salvation is not possible without confession.

Sorry, I should have explained previously using this route. I didn't consider the issue well.
The forum does not allow us to talk about OSAS so can't go further.


Again, I am in basic agreement with the statement. I have two minor issues:
1) Obedience is not quantified .... If perfect obedience is what is meant then no one will be saved. Now, how much disobedience is allowed is a grey area, but I am content to not have to define it exactly.
2) My main issue with the question Is obeying the Lord and His Commandments required for salvation? is maybe one of semantics; specifically the word "REQUIRED".
First, I believe that NO ONE WILL BE IN HEAVEN THAT DOES NOT OBEY GOD where 'obey' is short of perfection. (How short of perfection, I don't know). So, I think we agree on this, the most important concept. The only thing that bothers me is the word REQUIRED.
To me REQUIRED (need for a particular purpose) means I have to do something to be saved besides "believe". This is WORKS SALVATION. I doubt you believe in WORKS SALVATION as this is not a Roman Catholic site.

I state that you will always see in a Christian obedience to God (I think we agree on this), but this obedience is not a requirement of salvation, but a manifestation of salvation. It is because I BELIEVE that I obey ... it is not that I must obey (REQUIREMENT) to earn my salvation.
So I would answer in the affirmative if the question changed slightly from:
Is obeying the Lord and His Commandments required for salvation?
to
Is obeying the Lord and His Commandments always present in the saved?


Semantics issue. This is works salvation IMO for you have to obey to be saved.
I would re-state your proposition (ignoring the OSAS implication) as:
Only by being in Christ and remaining in Christ can one be saved and being in and remaining in Christ takes will be demonstrated/manifested by continued obedience until one dies...as Paul.

If you don't agree with me that is fine. Hopefully you can appreciate the subtle difference between your proposition and mine.

--Obedience is necessary to being saved for the disobedient will be lost 2 Thess 1:8. If one is not serving 'obedience unto righteousness' then he is serving 'sin unto death'. Rom 6:16.

--God requires a faithful obedience but does not require sinless perfection. Since Christians do sin, God has given Christian the avenue of pardon of those sin by repenting. Christians that will not obey by repenting will be lost due to their impenitence.

--you post "but this obedience is not a requirement of salvation, but a manifestation of salvation." As long as one disobeys he remains lost. The Bible puts obedience BEFORE salvation Romans 6:17-18. Again, Paul says 'obedience UNTO righteousness" and not obey obeys because he already is righteous. Not a single example of God saving one who did not obey Him.

--you posted " it is not that I must obey (REQUIREMENT) to earn my salvation."
some try and put the cart before the horse, that is, try and put salvation before obeying because they labor under the false idea that obedience to God's will is some attempt to earn/merit salvation. Obedience is simply a necessary conditions God has place upon His free gift of salvation. Salvation, both OT and NT has always been conditional. Nowhere ever in the Bible is it said one's obedience to God's will is earning salvation.
God graciously healed Naaman's disease but GOD CONDITIONALLY required Naaman first obey by dipping 7 times in the river. His obedience was a necessary condition GOD placed upon His free gift and the obedient work in dipping earned nothing.

--you posted " Only by being in Christ and remaining in Christ can one be saved"
I agree but it takes obedience to God's will to be in Christ and remain in Christ. Disobedience leaves one outside of Christ and lost. It took obedience from Saul/Paul for him to be saved/be in Christ.

--again, no one has ever shown me an example from the NT gospel of God saving a person before he obeys God's will. God saves those that "obey" Hebrews 5:9 and will have vengeance upon those that 'obey not' 2 Thess 1:8.
The present tense of 1 John 3:10 shows that whosoever continues not to do righteousness (not obey) continues to not be of God for God accepts those that do work righteousness-obeys, Acts 10:35.

 

[GodsGrace]

Confession IS obedience. Confession is not an option, salvation is not possible without confession.



--Obedience is necessary to being saved for the disobedient will be lost 2 Thess 1:8. If one is not serving 'obedience unto righteousness' then he is serving 'sin unto death'. Rom 6:16.

--God requires a faithful obedience but does not require sinless perfection. Since Christians do sin, God has given Christian the avenue of pardon of those sin by repenting. Christians that will not obey by repenting will be lost due to their impenitence.

--you post "but this obedience is not a requirement of salvation, but a manifestation of salvation." As long as one disobeys he remains lost. The Bible puts obedience BEFORE salvation Romans 6:17-18. Again, Paul says 'obedience UNTO righteousness" and not obey obeys because he already is righteous. Not a single example of God saving one who did not obey Him.

--you posted " it is not that I must obey (REQUIREMENT) to earn my salvation."
some try and put the cart before the horse, that is, try and put salvation before obeying because they labor under the false idea that obedience to God's will is some attempt to earn/merit salvation. Obedience is simply a necessary conditions God has place upon His free gift of salvation. Salvation, both OT and NT has always been conditional. Nowhere ever in the Bible is it said one's obedience to God's will is earning salvation.
God graciously healed Naaman's disease but GOD CONDITIONALLY required Naaman first obey by dipping 7 times in the river. His obedience was a necessary condition GOD placed upon His free gift and the obedient work in dipping earned nothing.

--you posted " Only by being in Christ and remaining in Christ can one be saved"
I agree but it takes obedience to God's will to be in Christ and remain in Christ. Disobedience leaves one outside of Christ and lost. It took obedience from Saul/Paul for him to be saved/be in Christ.

--again, no one has ever shown me an example from the NT gospel of God saving a person before he obeys God's will. God saves those that "obey" Hebrews 5:9 and will have vengeance upon those that 'obey not' 2 Thess 1:8.
The present tense of 1 John 3:10 shows that whosoever continues not to do righteousness (not obey) continues to not be of God for God accepts those that do work righteousness-obeys, Acts 10:35.

How do we obey God before we are saved?
later.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Nobody but Jesus ever kept that Commandment ......lucky for us, nobody ever gets saved by “ Commandment Keeping”...... we get saved by God’s Mercy and our Faith That Jesus was who He said He was .....God in Flesh and the One that Saves us by taking the Punishment for our sins on the Cross and then Rising from the dead....

Christ died on the cross for all men Hebrews 2:9 but all men will NOT be UNconditionally saved for salvation is conditional. What Christ did on the cross will save those that CONDITIONALLY obey what He says Hebrews 5:9; Luke 6:46.
Obedience is a condition placed upon salvation and does not earn salvation. Meeting conditions placed upon a free gift that has been offered you does not in anyway earn the free gift.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

How do we obey God before we are saved?
later.

By simply doing what God has required. Naaman was obeyed before he received God's gracious gift of healing. Israel obeyed by marching around the city before receiving the free gift of Jericho. Noah obeyed before his house was graciously saved from the flood. Those in Acts 2 first obeyed by repenting and being baptized before they were saved/had sins remitted.

Men are NOT totally depraved and unable to obey as some claim.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

we obey the call to be saved a lost man has no idea what his commandments are. we accept by faith

No one can be saved while remaining in ignorance of God's commands.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Nobody but Jesus ever kept that Commandment ......lucky for us, nobody ever gets saved by “ Commandment Keeping”...... we get saved by God’s Mercy and our Faith That Jesus was who He said He was .....God in Flesh and the One that Saves us by taking the Punishment for our sins on the Cross and then Rising from the dead....

You post " nobody ever gets saved by “ Commandment Keeping”."

Who ever 'got saved' by remaining in rebellion, disobedience to God's commands?

On another forum I had those (Calvinists) argue with me that men cannot keep God's commands.
If that were the case, why would God give man commands if those commands would be impossible to keep? That would make God unjust, unfair, unloving. Only wicked kings give commands impossible to keep Exodus 5:7-19.

On one occasion Jesus said be ye perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect Mt 5:48. Man own his own can never keep this command and be perfect before God. But those who obey Christ are in Christ and clothed in His perfect righteousness therefore are seen as perfect by God through Christ. So what is impossible for man (perfect, sinless, flawless obedience) is possible through Christ.

 

[JLB]

you be ya because i do know him from the free pardon of sin .

1 John 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. { doers of the word not hearers only }
if we fail and we will we have a advocate

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

“Knowing God” is the biblical definition of eternal life.


And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

The biblical term “know Him” refers to eternal life.


This same John says those Christians who say they “know Him” yet do not obey Him, who do not keep His commandments are mistaken.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4



JLB

 

[JLB]

Yes....and I “ do” know Him—- He lives in my New Heart....

Amen.

 

[JLB]

Confession IS obedience. Confession is not an option, salvation is not possible without confession.

Amen.

 

[GodsGrace]

By simply doing what God has required. Naaman was obeyed before he received God's gracious gift of healing. Israel obeyed by marching around the city before receiving the free gift of Jericho. Noah obeyed before his house was graciously saved from the flood. Those in Acts 2 first obeyed by repenting and being baptized before they were saved/had sins remitted.

Men are NOT totally depraved and unable to obey as some claim.

Israel already believed in God and Noah was a righteous man and walked with God.
I do believe they knew God and were saved when they began to obey Him.
No comment on Naaman,,,,sometimes God heals persons as a testimony for those that do believe.

Is repenting a matter of obedience?

The way I understand it is that we obey God after we have come to know Him.
Jesus said we must be born from above .... a second birth/ or, as some believe, we must be born again and baptized. John 3:5
Jesus states many times that His followers must obey Him.

Acts 3:19 says we repent and return to God and our sins are forgiven and then we are required to obey God.

Abraham heard from God....
then he obeyed and moved from his home of Haran.