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Jeff from france

1on0ne

 
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Hi

i'm a french christian trader from France , in 40, and i'm the author of a new theology that is briefly exposed at edited

i come here so we can discuss about these new ideas and i can develop about the new theology

thanks

Jeff
 
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JohnDB

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We are a conservative Christian website.
We are here for fellowship mostly.
Your theological positions definitely won't be as welcome as you are here.

We also have several people here who teach koine Greek on a university level.
Where I might not agree with everything they promote, their theological positions are more in keeping with this site than yours.

We aren't here for people to "test their pet theories about how Jesus is a space alien"
 

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i understand, but you know jews and christians were wrong all the time during History, the jews killed Jesus, but they were the most religious, then the catholics raised, and we know they were somehow wrong, because protestantism came and brung new things to the table. If you stay on your old positions, you won't be a part of God's plan, that's how i see it. and if you don't even want to debate and aknowledge new ideas you will definitively be put out of God's new plan

the fact that you disminishes my theology by calling it "Jesus is a space alien " proves you didn't even read the ideas, you'll be judged as you judged don't forget that.
 

StoveBolts

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i understand, but you know jews and christians were wrong all the time during History, the jews killed Jesus, but they were the most religious, then the catholics raised, and we know they were somehow wrong, because protestantism came and brung new things to the table. If you stay on your old positions, you won't be a part of God's plan, that's how i see it. and if you don't even want to debate and aknowledge new ideas you will definitively be put out of God's new plan

the fact that you disminishes my theology by calling it "Jesus is a space alien " proves you didn't even read the ideas, you'll be judged as you judged don't forget that.
Thanks for the heads up.
You should have received a welcome message, I do hope you will read it. We decided that we are not a debate forum. If that's what you were after, I'm sorry. There are other forums you can engage in that welcome that type of rigorus dialog. We found it only causes strife.

Thanks
 

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which forum, please ? because almost all of them don't tolerate external website, and they would get happy to ban me because of my different ideas, believe me, moderators are usually very little tolerant
 

StoveBolts

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Hi Jeff,
My name is also Jeff. If most other forums would be happy to ban you, then that might be a signal that your new theology is a bit far out there. I haven't spoken with JohnDB about what he edited out, but I know him well enough to trust his judgment.

For the most part, Like John said, we are a conservative site and we lean toward a traditional Orthodox view, but we don't lean so far that we draw lines in the sand.

I hope you'll settle in and see if you can make some friends.
 

1on0ne

 
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oh i totally understood that your forum is not the place for me,and i'm not trying to be a part of it; right? i'm just trying to find a place to debate the new ideas i propose, and no, they are not "far out there" and they are based on the Bible. it's just that some verses can be interpreted in so many ways. But regarding reincarnation for example, it is based on one verse and the words of Jesus himself so there is no interpretation there. I can assure you that the points i propose are very serious points based on the Word itself.

but hey, farewell, and thank you for not banning me right away
 

StoveBolts

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Jeff,
We don't enjoy banning members and we try not to.

Again, I'm not sure what JohnDB edited, but I'll speak with him so I'm more in the know.

What I do understand is this. To this day, there are Jews that believe in reincarnation and there are passages in the OT that can be used to support their view. I am also aware of Jesus addressing this view.

As far as differing ways to interpret scripture, we prefer to view the scriptures within their historical context first so we can hear what was being said with the intent in which it was said. If we get that wrong, it's easy to redact scripture to make it say about anything we want it to say.

Historically, when a new member comes on this site teaching "new" teaching, it is met with resistance, which it appears you are not only aware of, but you have experienced with different online forums.

If I can get you to understand anything I've written, I wish you to understand this. You are welcome here, but if you already understand that your teaching will be rejected, then you need to understand that it works against the goal of this site which is to build one another up.

What I suggest is this. I'm sure there are many areas we can agree on. Stay within those pockets and both be a teacher and a willing student. If you know some of your stuff will be rejected, then don't bring it out and keep it to yourself, especially if you feel you have to defend your position because there is a difference between defending and explaining.
 
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1on0ne

 
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i'm perfectly aware that you can take a verse and make it say whatever you want to (or close to that), i know it, but in the case of reincarnation, there is no debate possible (unfortunately ?).

As far as teaching people, you seem to say that i could do it on this forum ? but you (or other moderator) moderated my post with the link to my website. Does it means i can still present my ideas but without linking to the (ad free) website ?

please i'm trying to undertstand what i can or cannot do here and i which section i can post.

My only goal is to build people with great knowledge, i'm not selling anything, i don't need money, our churches (God willing) will be totally free (no tithes whatsoever). So i'm just trying to present another point of view that i think is interesting. It's interesting because the theology is almost flawless. you can adhere to it or not, but one thing you cannnot do is to find weaknesses. Be honest, you have, like all other christians, points of theology that you can't explain totally, you have some explanations that are against other explanations, i know all this and i understand, i was a catholic as a child, and then migrated to an evangelical church and now i attend to an baptist church, so i know pretty well all existing theologies, and i know their weaknesses. when i tried to talk to pastors, they agreeded with my point of view and my analysis, but could not explain it further : that's the kind of flaws i'm talking about.

Please let me know where i can present the ideas (in which section) and if i'm allowed to link my website or not (the website is just a well written/presented form of the theology, no ads, no money asking, etc)

thank you for being so open

Jeff
 

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Hi Jeff,
Main stream Christianity will reject reincarnation if that is what your promoting. Imho, it makes for good discussion as long as you understand most will reject it. If you understand this, then you will also need to understand that being the odd man out, it will not be your position to prove your point or discredit others points.

Look at it this way, your in our house, and we desire to be a house of peace. We do not desire debate nor dessention and we certainly don't tolerate conversations that lead to argument for the sake of argument.

I understand your passionate about your knowledge, but we both know knowledge can puff up. Love, on the other hand builds up. And so we are able to reason that we must speak truth in love so that we are able to build one another up.

I would suggest you meet people where they are and build upon the knowledge they already posses.
 

1on0ne

 
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ok about reincarnation if i may talk about it here it's about three main points, and also the fact that it fits perfectly the whole theology, it could not work with a single life situation.
1)
John 9:2 : "And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? "
So the poor guy to be born blind...But how can it be his fault ? Unless he lived before his birth, that's the only possibility. I have to push the point that it means the disciples were believing in reincarnation, but it was so obvious to them, that they didn't seem the need to put it clearly in the Bible, just like Flat Earth. Also the important point is that they ask a question to Jesus, if they were wrong, Jesus would have certainly said something like :"you are wrong, we don't reincarnate but we live only once" but instead he replied "Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. "

2) Jesus went to hell after his death to announce the good news of Salvation. Many theologians say that the people there were asleep, simply because it fits their other theologic arguments. But i don't see Jesus going to hell simply to talk to asleep spirits for 3 days... That's just stupid. So the spirit were alive. But why is Jesus anouncing the good news to spirit that will never live again, and stay in hell forever? it makes no sense once again. Jesus anounced the good news because he wanted the poor souls suffering out there to rejoice with Him on the great hope of Salvation.

3) People going to hell forever is just preposterous. I know a lot of you believe in it, but it's just opposite to a mercyful God. The worst punishment for God, is to be recalled to nothingness. Few angels decided so and God was very sad, but he accepted. I don't say there is no hell, but we just don't stay there forever. We go there after a impious life without Christ, as a consequence, and God has nothing to do with it, that's the devil and his minions who torture souls out there. Then we reincarnate and we have another chance. The poor muslim that was born in Irak has nothing to do with the fact that he is muslim, his family is, so he is also. He would certainly not change religion like that. So it's not his fault if he doesn't belive in Christ, so why would he end up in eternal suffering if it's not his fault ? God is Just and God is Mercyful. The whole story about eternal suffering in hell makes no sense at all.

Jeff
 
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StoveBolts

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Good morning Jeff,

As far as the verse you used to support reincarnation, you would do better to read Jewish teachings to better understand some of their views on generational sin which is rooted in Exodus (I am a jelous God....). Historically, the Pharisis came into being based on Roman occupation and Harrod (nonJew) being their King. One thing the Jews understood was Deuteronomy 28 and how that related to exile. ( Blessings and curses) The state of Jerusalem in their eyes was worse than exile, hence wrong interpretations of sin came about.

As far as Hell, that's a very interesting topic, especially from a historical Jewish perspective. Have you ever studied it's biblical roots? By hell, I'm referring to Gehenna
 

sunflower

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Hi Jeff from France, first of all let me say, "Welcome to the Forum." We don't usually have discussions like this in the New Members forum so it has taken me a while to get here and respond.

First of all, I agree with Stevebolts where he is sharing about 'generational sin' That is the first thing that came to mind when I read the first part of your post. You may want to explore more about that on your own.

Next, Jeff, there isn't a one of us who hasn't asked the question: "How could a merciful and loving God send people to hell?" That is why we need to check out the bible as a whole..and as we do and learn (which can take years as it has for me) we see more and more into all aspects in the character of God, even though we remain limited. He is God and we are not. And more and more insight and understanding of the bigger picture does come through prayer and grace as well..it is an increase in the gift of faith that we have to continually seek. It takes time and is not easy. One place which has helped me a lot is to explore the Book of Job. Not just Job's friends reactions but actually what God said to Job about His (i.e. God's) own character. The thing is God really is a God of love and He is also a God of justice. Books are written on that so won't go into details or quotes.

It may also help to read Genesis again and see why there is a hell. The source of hell is not God. It is a placed reserved for the Prince of this World who has authority to reign there. It all started in the garden. But we got another chance when Jesus died for us.

I don't think people go to hell who don't really chose to do so.

Last, as for the idea of "reincarnation" --- wouldn't it be lovely to believe we don't really die but do come back as some other being? I choose to believe that as we get the whole picture through Christ and accepting the gift of new life through salvation we are given the gift of everlasting Life. And in the the book of Revelation, chapters 21 and 22... we see there is coming a new Heavens and New Earth and we get to dwell with God. The Tree of Life is there in the new garden. To me that is actually better than 'reincarnation'. I am sharing these thoughts with prayers and good wishes as you let God keep changing and growing you in the knowledge of His words and ways. We are all doing that yet..even old people like me. :cool2

sunflower
 

HeIsRisen2018

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Hey Jeff from France, firstly welcome to christianforums.net. :wave2 I am not much of a debating person, and I'm not anywhere near the kind of person that will tell you that your beliefs are wrong. However, let me just ask you one question.



Why would we be in the need of a Savior if we were just going to come back to earth as somebody or something else? Mind you I have heard a lot of convincing stories in my lifetime, but you can't believe everything that you read, hear, or see over the internet. :nono
 

wondering

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ok about reincarnation if i may talk about it here it's about three main points, and also the fact that it fits perfectly the whole theology, it could not work with a single life situation.
1)
John 9:2 : "And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? "
So the poor guy to be born blind...But how can it be his fault ? Unless he lived before his birth, that's the only possibility. I have to push the point that it means the disciples were believing in reincarnation, but it was so obvious to them, that they didn't seem the need to put it clearly in the Bible, just like Flat Earth. Also the important point is that they ask a question to Jesus, if they were wrong, Jesus would have certainly said something like :"you are wrong, we don't reincarnate but we live only once" but instead he replied "Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. "

2) Jesus went to hell after his death to announce the good news of Salvation. Many theologians say that the people there were asleep, simply because it fits their other theologic arguments. But i don't see Jesus going to hell simply to talk to asleep spirits for 3 days... That's just stupid. So the spirit were alive. But why is Jesus anouncing the good news to spirit that will never live again, and stay in hell forever? it makes no sense once again. Jesus anounced the good news because he wanted the poor souls suffering out there to rejoice with Him on the great hope of Salvation.

3) People going to hell forever is just preposterous. I know a lot of you believe in it, but it's just opposite to a mercyful God. The worst punishment for God, is to be recalled to nothingness. Few angels decided so and God was very sad, but he accepted. I don't say there is no hell, but we just don't stay there forever. We go there after a impious life without Christ, as a consequence, and God has nothing to do with it, that's the devil and his minions who torture souls out there. Then we reincarnate and we have another chance. The poor muslim that was born in Irak has nothing to do with the fact that he is muslim, his family is, so he is also. He would certainly not change religion like that. So it's not his fault if he doesn't belive in Christ, so why would he end up in eternal suffering if it's not his fault ? God is Just and God is Mercyful. The whole story about eternal suffering in hell makes no sense at all.

Jeff
Hi Jeff,

Where's St. Malo??
Is it near St. Michele?
Pretty region.
Green, soft hills, tiny towns.

Anyway, if you're still around, I'm willing to discuss your ideas. They aren't new.

The reason they aren't new is because Christianity in Europe is almost non-existent and too many ideas are floating around.

If there's a new idea around,,,do you think it should be called Christianity or maybe it should be given a new name?

I would be very interested in knowing HOW you got these new ideas.

Welcome to the forum.
It would be nice if we could be of help to you.
 

1on0ne

 
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Good morning Jeff,

As far as the verse you used to support reincarnation, you would do better to read Jewish teachings to better understand some of their views on generational sin which is rooted in Exodus (I am a jelous God....). Historically, the Pharisis came into being based on Roman occupation and Harrod (nonJew) being their King. One thing the Jews understood was Deuteronomy 28 and how that related to exile. ( Blessings and curses) The state of Jerusalem in their eyes was worse than exile, hence wrong interpretations of sin came about.

As far as Hell, that's a very interesting topic, especially from a historical Jewish perspective. Have you ever studied it's biblical roots? By hell, I'm referring to Gehenna
no i haven't but i've been to hell, so i think it beats any reference to it, no ?

Hi Jeff from France, first of all let me say, "Welcome to the Forum." We don't usually have discussions like this in the New Members forum so it has taken me a while to get here and respond.

First of all, I agree with Stevebolts where he is sharing about 'generational sin' That is the first thing that came to mind when I read the first part of your post. You may want to explore more about that on your own.
ok
Next, Jeff, there isn't a one of us who hasn't asked the question: "How could a merciful and loving God send people to hell?" That is why we need to check out the bible as a whole..and as we do and learn (which can take years as it has for me) we see more and more into all aspects in the character of God, even though we remain limited. He is God and we are not. And more and more insight and understanding of the bigger picture does come through prayer and grace as well..it is an increase in the gift of faith that we have to continually seek. It takes time and is not easy. One place which has helped me a lot is to explore the Book of Job. Not just Job's friends reactions but actually what God said to Job about His (i.e. God's) own character. The thing is God really is a God of love and He is also a God of justice. Books are written on that so won't go into details or quotes.
know that the worst punishment for God is to be recalled to nothingness. A few angels (just a handful) have asked Him to be recalled to nothingness and He was really sad but He accepted...
It may also help to read Genesis again and see why there is a hell. The source of hell is not God. It is a placed reserved for the Prince of this World who has authority to reign there. It all started in the garden. But we got another chance when Jesus died for us.

I don't think people go to hell who don't really chose to do so.
yeah like anybody CHOSES to go to a place of eternal torments, right...

to understand hell, you have to understand why there is a hell. The Bible doesn't say so, . It just warns about the place, that it is a very dangerous place, a place so dangerous that it would be better to chop you arm off than to go there. Once again i've been there, so i know perfectly what Jesus is talking about. I also know where it is. Please give me ONE reference of someone who KNOWS where hell is and i'll follow his teachings.

To understand hell, you have to understand where it comes from :
At the beginning, Satanael rebelled, we all know that, but what we don't know is what happenned next : Satanael became Satan after rebelling against God's power. Some angels joined him and soon they were a mob. Two choices occurred when the mob met a new angel : join them of be killed. Of course Satan could remove the angel's body but not the soul. So he kept the souls in a place, and kept torturing the souls. This is HELL.

Satan became the first collector, a collector of souls.

God saw that happening and was so sad for the souls He had lost and the chaos in an ever so quiet universe until now.
So He decided to act and came out with a plan of salvation: He went to see Satan, took him apart, and told him :

"You got your souls collection, but this is a bit boring right ? You torture souls as you wish, but it would be better to rule your world. I got a trade to offer to you : i'll create a planet, just for you, where the souls you collected could be incarnated.
This will be your world.
And God showed him the new world as it is, with all the suffering and despair. The devil saw all the men being tortured, the pain, the diseases, animals and humans inter-devouring themselves, sadness, then finally death. And he was all excited. But he didn't see the joy, the peace, the help from others, the piety, generosity, courage, he discarded all that...All he was interested in was the negative side of the world. Satan was interested, but he wasn't all in yet...

Then God continued :
"In this population, i'll chose a race of people, the israëlites. In one part they will constanly reject me and i'll be strong, jealous, violent and resentful. In the second part, i'll come as a man, and i'll be the exact opposite: frail, caring, peaceful, and at 33, you will finally torture and kill me on a cross. And i'll feel every hit like it's done unto me."
Satan knew God wasn't lying and his eyes started to shine : Kill God ? He knew that he could not really make Him disappear, but torture Him ? this was unexpected...

so he accepted.

and God won.

We are since then free from Satan's dominion because God bought back our freedom thanks to Him.

Last, as for the idea of "reincarnation" --- wouldn't it be lovely to believe we don't really die but do come back as some other being? I choose to believe that as we get the whole picture through Christ and accepting the gift of new life through salvation we are given the gift of everlasting Life. And in the the book of Revelation, chapters 21 and 22... we see there is coming a new Heavens and New Earth and we get to dwell with God. The Tree of Life is there in the new garden. To me that is actually better than 'reincarnation'. I am sharing these thoughts with prayers and good wishes as you let God keep changing and growing you in the knowledge of His words and ways. We are all doing that yet..even old people like me. :cool2sunflower
the only problem is that you're not doing your shopping... We are after the TRUTH, so there is no "i would prefer live only one". OF COURSE everybody would prefer live once and be freed, but this is not how it works...what about the poor muslim that is born in a muslim family and that will go to hell forever, but what fault did he do ? don't you have compassion for him ? How can you say God is just after that. The whole theolgy isn't logical, i'm sorry


Hey Jeff from France, firstly welcome to christianforums.net. :wave2 I am not much of a debating person, and I'm not anywhere near the kind of person that will tell you that your beliefs are wrong. However, let me just ask you one question.



Why would we be in the need of a Savior if we were just going to come back to earth as somebody or something else? Mind you I have heard a lot of convincing stories in my lifetime, but you can't believe everything that you read, hear, or see over the internet. :nono
well we need a savoir to get out of the circle of reincarnations, that's the point ! you like beeing tortured on earth, far from God ?
 

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no i haven't but i've been to hell, so i think it beats any reference to it, no ?



ok

know that the worst punishment for God is to be recalled to nothingness. A few angels (just a handful) have asked Him to be recalled to nothingness and He was really sad but He accepted...

yeah like anybody CHOSES to go to a place of eternal torments, right...

to understand hell, you have to understand why there is a hell. The Bible doesn't say so, . It just warns about the place, that it is a very dangerous place, a place so dangerous that it would be better to chop you arm off than to go there. Once again i've been there, so i know perfectly what Jesus is talking about. I also know where it is. Please give me ONE reference of someone who KNOWS where hell is and i'll follow his teachings.

To understand hell, you have to understand where it comes from :
At the beginning, Satanael rebelled, we all know that, but what we don't know is what happenned next : Satanael became Satan after rebelling against God's power. Some angels joined him and soon they were a mob. Two choices occurred when the mob met a new angel : join them of be killed. Of course Satan could remove the angel's body but not the soul. So he kept the souls in a place, and kept torturing the souls. This is HELL.

Satan became the first collector, a collector of souls.

God saw that happening and was so sad for the souls He had lost and the chaos in an ever so quiet universe until now.
So He decided to act and came out with a plan of salvation: He went to see Satan, took him apart, and told him :

"You got your souls collection, but this is a bit boring right ? You torture souls as you wish, but it would be better to rule your world. I got a trade to offer to you : i'll create a planet, just for you, where the souls you collected could be incarnated.
This will be your world.
And God showed him the new world as it is, with all the suffering and despair. The devil saw all the men being tortured, the pain, the diseases, animals and humans inter-devouring themselves, sadness, then finally death. And he was all excited. But he didn't see the joy, the peace, the help from others, the piety, generosity, courage, he discarded all that...All he was interested in was the negative side of the world. Satan was interested, but he wasn't all in yet...

Then God continued :
"In this population, i'll chose a race of people, the israëlites. In one part they will constanly reject me and i'll be strong, jealous, violent and resentful. In the second part, i'll come as a man, and i'll be the exact opposite: frail, caring, peaceful, and at 33, you will finally torture and kill me on a cross. And i'll feel every hit like it's done unto me."
Satan knew God wasn't lying and his eyes started to shine : Kill God ? He knew that he could not really make Him disappear, but torture Him ? this was unexpected...

so he accepted.

and God won.

We are since then free from Satan's dominion because God bought back our freedom thanks to Him.


the only problem is that you're not doing your shopping... We are after the TRUTH, so there is no "i would prefer live only one". OF COURSE everybody would prefer live once and be freed, but this is not how it works...what about the poor muslim that is born in a muslim family and that will go to hell forever, but what fault did he do ? don't you have compassion for him ? How can you say God is just after that. The whole theolgy isn't logical, i'm sorry



well we need a savoir to get out of the circle of reincarnations, that's the point ! you like beeing tortured on earth, far from God ?
With all due respect, that isn't the Biblical narrative and reads more like a science fiction novel from L. Ron Hubbard. Have you looked into $cientology? If not, Mr. Hubbard's cult follows somewhat the same narrative you write about, only the names are changed. Xanu is Satan within your narrative and the soul is referred to as a Thatan trying to escape an implant (hell) which is attached to the Thatan through each incarnation.

The above is a figment of imagination and does not resemble the Biblical narrative, nor does it resonates in any way toward the Jewish notion of reincarnation let alone the Jewish site on earth.

It is true that there is a hell on Earth, which is why I asked if you have studied the biblical roots in regard to hell. From what you posted, it sounds like you've been heavily influenced by Norse mythology and grand illusiin which we will not allow to take root on our forum.

That being said, we can certainly share our biblical views, but only if your open to hearing what we have to say.

As far as Jewish thought, reincarnation is for the purpose of the Jew full filling all 613 laws perfectly. Also, a good Rabbi is able to snatch souls from hell as he passes through. Jesus is much more than a good Rabbi. He is our savior and because Jesus is our Savior, those in Christ will never see hell after death because we have already died and have been raised new with Christ.

As far as hell on Earth, we find our peace in Christ because we understand that all things work to the good for those who live God. This isn't a promise that bad things will never happen to us, but it is a promise that God is with us and if God is with us, who can be against us? Nothing, absolutely nothing can separate us from the live of God, not even circumstance.
 

Truthfrees

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ok about reincarnation if i may talk about it here it's about three main points, and also the fact that it fits perfectly the whole theology, it could not work with a single life situation.
1)
John 9:2 : "And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? "
So the poor guy to be born blind...But how can it be his fault ? Unless he lived before his birth, that's the only possibility. I have to push the point that it means the disciples were believing in reincarnation, but it was so obvious to them, that they didn't seem the need to put it clearly in the Bible, just like Flat Earth. Also the important point is that they ask a question to Jesus, if they were wrong, Jesus would have certainly said something like :"you are wrong, we don't reincarnate but we live only once" but instead he replied "Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. "

2) Jesus went to hell after his death to announce the good news of Salvation. Many theologians say that the people there were asleep, simply because it fits their other theologic arguments. But i don't see Jesus going to hell simply to talk to asleep spirits for 3 days... That's just stupid. So the spirit were alive. But why is Jesus anouncing the good news to spirit that will never live again, and stay in hell forever? it makes no sense once again. Jesus anounced the good news because he wanted the poor souls suffering out there to rejoice with Him on the great hope of Salvation.

3) People going to hell forever is just preposterous. I know a lot of you believe in it, but it's just opposite to a mercyful God. The worst punishment for God, is to be recalled to nothingness. Few angels decided so and God was very sad, but he accepted. I don't say there is no hell, but we just don't stay there forever. We go there after a impious life without Christ, as a consequence, and God has nothing to do with it, that's the devil and his minions who torture souls out there. Then we reincarnate and we have another chance. The poor muslim that was born in Irak has nothing to do with the fact that he is muslim, his family is, so he is also. He would certainly not change religion like that. So it's not his fault if he doesn't belive in Christ, so why would he end up in eternal suffering if it's not his fault ? God is Just and God is Mercyful. The whole story about eternal suffering in hell makes no sense at all.

Jeff
there can not be multiple deaths and reincarnations according to Hebrews 9:27

our bodies will be changed from an earthly body to a spiritual body - but that is not the same as reincarnation into multiple earthly bodies - 1 Corinthians 15:40 - 2 Corinthians 5:1-4

thinking re-incarnation is an alternative to suffering in hell for eternity is really an attempt to circumvent the scriptures that say there is suffering in hell for eternity - it's better to ask God why He says there will be eternal suffering in hell -

now as to who goes to hell that is something none of us knows for sure - if you think that someone's interpretation of who goes to hell is too harsh that is certainly an issue christians wonder about - and this harsh attitude some christians have about who goes to hell and why turns a lot of people away from God - people who God might be trying to bring into the family by love - Romans 2:4

God wants none to perish and goes to great lengths to offer the free gift of salvation to whosoever wants it - this means that someone who does end up in hell is someone who does NOT want what God has to offer -

we can trust GOD that anyone in hell for sure deserved eternal punishment - and ONLY our loving patient righteous wise all-knowing God decides who goes to hell - not some human with a harsh interpretation of scripture

God is righteous and will ONLY make righteous holy pure judgement about who goes to hell - Isaiah 55:8-9 - 1 Samuel 16:7 - Psalms 9:8 - Psalms 96:13 - Psalms 98:9 - Romans 2:16 - 1 Corinthians 4:5 -
 
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Truthfrees

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PROOF THAT THOSE WHO END UP IN HELL ARE DESERVING

1. Romans 1:21 - they knew God yet REFUSED to glorify Him - just as evil as satan who knew God and rebelled

2. John 3:19-20 - refuse to come into the light because they love sin

3. Revelation 16:11 - knew there was a righteous God and cursed Him rather than repenting

4. Matthew 25:41-46 - God judges righteously as per each person's case

5. 2 Peter 2:9 - God rescues the godly from temptation and punishes the wicked on judgement day
 
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Truthfrees

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no i haven't but i've been to hell, so i think it beats any reference to it, no ?
not necessarily

if you have an experience that contradicts scripture something is wrong

if you have an experience that confirms scripture something is good

i've had many experiences - some agreed with scripture - some disagreed

i chose to renounce any experiences that disagreed with scripture and sought God's protection and wise instructions on how to have ONLY experiences that come from God and confirm scripture

iow all experiences do not necessarily come from God - and it is wise for all of us to have ONLY experiences that come from God - you really don't want to be messing around with experiences that come from an alternate ungodly source - 2 Corinthians 11:14 - 2 Corinthians 4:4 - Matthew 24:24
 
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