Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Jesus Christ second coming? or third? or maybe fourth?

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$905.00
Goal
$1,038.00

veryberry

Member
A common argument that disputes the rapture is

" How many times is Christ coming back? It is his SECOND COMING, not his THIRD. There is no rapture because this will make it his THIRD coming"

or something around those lines. Where in the bible does it state how many times he is to come back? Give me a number.. With in the four gospel accounts we already see how Jesus Christ ascended up to heaven and came back...

John 20:17 - Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

So here we have Jesus telling Mary not to touch Jesus Christ because he has not ascended yet. Why can she not touch him? I don't know. Maybe because He is about to perform the duty of they High Priest in the Heavenly Temple that is made with out hands and it will defile it(Hebrews 9). But, She cannot touch Jesus.

Mark 16:12 - After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

So Jesus Christ is either a shape shifter, or He ascended to the Father and came back and now he can be touched.

Luke 24:39 - Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: Handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Jesus Christ is telling them to touch him or handle him when Mary could not because he has not yet ascended. Him having not yet ascended apparently is what was keeping him from being touched.

John 20:27 - Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Again, Jesus is telling Thomas to touch him, when Mary could not earlier.

Matthew 28:9 - And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by his feet, and worshipped him.

Here they are actually touching him. They are holding his feet.

So here we have Jesus ascending to the Father which is in Heaven(secretly), and then coming back to the disciples.

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

And of course, he is taken up. again...

I believe that Jesus Christ's coming at the end of Jacobs Trouble has no restraints on Jesus Christ rapturing his Church. The rapture is a mystery, His coming at the end is not a mystery.
 
Jesus did not want Mary fixated on His physical presence because in forty days He would ascend and she would see Him no longer. Jesus' followers were to carry out the great commission without His physical presence, and once given the Comforter, it would be enough.

Matt 28:9 is proof that physical contact was not forbidden, instead it was the emotional fixation on physical presence rather than spiritual presence which was discouraged.
 
A common argument that disputes the rapture is

" How many times is Christ coming back? It is his SECOND COMING, not his THIRD. There is no rapture because this will make it his THIRD coming"

or something around those lines. Where in the bible does it state how many times he is to come back? Give me a number.. With in the four gospel accounts we already see how Jesus Christ ascended up to heaven and came back...

John 20:17 - Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

So here we have Jesus telling Mary not to touch Jesus Christ because he has not ascended yet. Why can she not touch him? I don't know. Maybe because He is about to perform the duty of they High Priest in the Heavenly Temple that is made with out hands and it will defile it(Hebrews 9). But, She cannot touch Jesus.

Mark 16:12 - After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

So Jesus Christ is either a shape shifter, or He ascended to the Father and came back and now he can be touched.

Luke 24:39 - Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: Handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Jesus Christ is telling them to touch him or handle him when Mary could not because he has not yet ascended. Him having not yet ascended apparently is what was keeping him from being touched.

John 20:27 - Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Again, Jesus is telling Thomas to touch him, when Mary could not earlier.

Matthew 28:9 - And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by his feet, and worshipped him.

Here they are actually touching him. They are holding his feet.

So here we have Jesus ascending to the Father which is in Heaven(secretly), and then coming back to the disciples.

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

And of course, he is taken up. again...

I believe that Jesus Christ's coming at the end of Jacobs Trouble has no restraints on Jesus Christ rapturing his Church. The rapture is a mystery, His coming at the end is not a mystery.

[Deleted personal comment. ToS 2.4!!!]

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


Please stick to what the scriptures say.


JLB
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jesus did not want Mary fixated on His physical presence because in forty days He would ascend and she would see Him no longer. Jesus' followers were to carry out the great commission without His physical presence, and once given the Comforter, it would be enough.

Matt 28:9 is proof that physical contact was not forbidden, instead it was the emotional fixation on physical presence rather than spiritual presence which was discouraged.
So Jesus tells Mary to go and tell the disciples that he will ascend unto the father? Why wouldn't he do it when he spent 40 days with them.
 
[Deleted personal comment. ToS 2.4!!!]

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


Please stick to what the scriptures say.


JLB
I believe every word of the bible. Thank you very much for that verse! I saw this a few hours after I posted but decided to let my post stand as it was.
Really, my point was, That Jesus ascending to the father and coming back does is not associated with the second coming, Just like the rapture is not associated with the second coming.

Thanks
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So Jesus tells Mary to go and tell the disciples that he will ascend unto the father? Why wouldn't he do it when he spent 40 days with them.
He did. Remember that early Sunday morning the disciples thought Jesus had descended to the grave three days prior, and was still there. As with Lazarus, Jesus left the grave, but unlike Lazarus who would later return to the grave just like all those resurrected in the OT, Jesus would instead in 40 days ascend to Heaven.
 
A common argument that disputes the rapture is

" How many times is Christ coming back? It is his SECOND COMING, not his THIRD. There is no rapture because this will make it his THIRD coming"

or something around those lines. Where in the bible does it state how many times he is to come back? Give me a number.. With in the four gospel accounts we already see how Jesus Christ ascended up to heaven and came back...

John 20:17 - Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

So here we have Jesus telling Mary not to touch Jesus Christ because he has not ascended yet. Why can she not touch him? I don't know. Maybe because He is about to perform the duty of they High Priest in the Heavenly Temple that is made with out hands and it will defile it(Hebrews 9). But, She cannot touch Jesus.

Mark 16:12 - After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

So Jesus Christ is either a shape shifter, or He ascended to the Father and came back and now he can be touched.

Luke 24:39 - Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: Handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Jesus Christ is telling them to touch him or handle him when Mary could not because he has not yet ascended. Him having not yet ascended apparently is what was keeping him from being touched.

John 20:27 - Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Again, Jesus is telling Thomas to touch him, when Mary could not earlier.

Matthew 28:9 - And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by his feet, and worshipped him.

Here they are actually touching him. They are holding his feet.

So here we have Jesus ascending to the Father which is in Heaven(secretly), and then coming back to the disciples.

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

And of course, he is taken up. again...

I believe that Jesus Christ's coming at the end of Jacobs Trouble has no restraints on Jesus Christ rapturing his Church. The rapture is a mystery, His coming at the end is not a mystery.
That's a lot of words...
"For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:40 ESV
Jesus returns on the last day, not seven years before the last day, not a million years before the last day, not a thousand years before the last day, and not 3.5 years before the last day.
Jesus returns on the last day and raises the dead to eternal life.
 
That's a lot of words...
"For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:40 ESV
Jesus returns on the last day, not seven years before the last day, not a million years before the last day, not a thousand years before the last day, and not 3.5 years before the last day.
Jesus returns on the last day and raises the dead to eternal life.
the Jews believed that Jesus was to come back as a King on this earth, they did not see his first advent as a suffering servant(still don't.) The church is in the same boat. Some see the truth in the rapture and that he will come for the church. Some do not see it.......they will go no matter if they believe it or not!

Simply put, We look back at the old testament and do not understand that the Jew could not comprehend that Jesus was to come as a suffering servant first. They could not see the first advent. They were blinded to it. Kind of like most Christians today are blind of the rapture before the Trib.
 
Thanks Grace,

I just believe what the Bible says. "For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.…"
1 Thess 4:15-17

The dead are raised up on the last day, as I posted before, John 6:40 "I will raise him up on the last day", and from 1 Thess 4:15 we see that we will not precede the dead who are raised up on the last day.

So it is not possible for Jesus to return and take up those who remain alive 7 years before Jesus returns on the last day to resurrect the dead. Let's not talk bad about people, who's blind, who isn't. The Bible is there, I just believe what the Bible says. If it says that the last day is seven years before the last day, then that's what I would believe. However if it says the dead are raised on the last day, and those who are alive will not precede them, then I'll believe that, even if someone calls me blind for believing the Bible.
 
If you think about it (and search!) the term second coming is not in the bible. From what I hear and understand, Jesus has been coming lots of times to visit people and manifests himself to them for different reasons of His own. Even this passage that was posted:

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.Hebrews 9:28

Has the qualifier added to the end "for salvation" :)

I think He's been here thousands of times, perhaps millions? Billions? I wish He'd come see me. :)

The fact is...we don't really know if there will be a rapture or not. No one does. Oh we can lay our doctrine and theology on it and think on these things and torture the text until we make it say whatever we want it to. But isn't dwelling on the rapture missing the mark anyway? Are we not supposed to be seeking God with all of our heart, and His will be done?

Maybe there is a rapture, and so a third coming. How can we know what was in Gods mind when He wrote this? Perhaps he doesn't consider the rapture as "for salvation" but for the wedding supper or something? Salvation for everyone becomes official after the millennial reign and then judgment day. We don't really really know until the day comes. Then it will be moot, lol. Concentrate on relationship brothers and sisters. Jesus is a person, not a doctrine.
 
Last edited:
His final return (to put an end to the numbering argument at least in this reply) will be when the Jewish people cry out to him to save them as the world's armies descend upon them to utterly destroy them.

This end is the purpose for the Great Tribulation (Matthew 24:20-22). The believer's tribulation will have already passed (Revelation 12:17 / Revelation 13:5-10). At the end of the believer's tribulation is when the rapture will take place (Revelation 3:10 / Daniel 12:12). Revelation 13:16-18 describes the methods the beast will use to track down every believer (the one people on earth who will not accept the mark 666). So the numbers of those raptured who survive to that point in the 70th Week of Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27) will be small and very deep in hiding. With the overlap of the time of the rapture (Daniel 12:12) and the time the beast reneges on his affirmation of Old Testament Judaism (Daniel 9:27 / Daniel 12:11 / Zechariah 5:5-11) of some 105 days... it is my opinion at least that the presumption will be made that the Christians were exterminated to the last one and the beat will proceed with part B of his plan to wipe out the Jews now that the Christians are wiped out.

70x7.jpg


The Jews who survive to the last day will cry out to Jesus as a last resort. They have tried everything else and nothing will have worked. So they cry out to him whose name is Save (Hoshea / yeHOSHua = Jesus) with the Hosanna cry (Hosanna = HOSHA NAH! SAVE NOW).

And he will return to save them.
 
To be sure the 2 witnesses as spoken of in Rev 11 and those 2 were noted in Zech 4:14 will testify for 1260 days. No power will be able to stop them until their testimony is completed for it is Gods set purpose to give one last powerful sign to the "whole world" of the good news of the gospel and a warning to those that continue to sin and reject Gods salvation as there are eternal consequences at stake and a loving God warns and warns. If anyone in the "whole world' has any shred of faith in those days they will see that what is happening and the message given is from God. Now when the testimony is completed the beast who comes up from the abyss (released at the sounding of the 5th trump) will overpower and kill the 2 who severe the Lord of the whole world. Now the beast is in the world and the great tribulation has begun. The focal point of the battle of God almighty is in the Holy Land but the great tribulation comes upon the whole world. Just as the testimony of the 2 is for the whole world. God has sent His salvation to the ends of the world. In those days (the reign of the beast/great tribulation) it will call for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints. No rapture. In the end the Lord returns on the last day. A 2nd coming of the Lord. Rev 16:15. Until that time, as is written, the Lord will remain at the right hand of God. (In heaven) Psalm 110:1
 
There are only two advents of Christ in all of scripture

FIRST ADVENT

Jesus was prophesied to come meek and lowly on His arrival in Jerusalem.
Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
Matthew 21:5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

SECOND ADVENT
When Jesus returns, He will be in great power with His glorious resurrected body.
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

FIRST ADVENT
Jesus was prophesied to have no beauty that we would exalt Him for beauty.
Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? V.2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

SECOND ADVENT
When Jesus comes back , He will be glorious beyond our imagination.
Zechariah 9:17 For how great is his goodness, and how great is his beauty! corn shall make the young men cheerful, and new wine the maids.

FIRST ADVENT
Jesus was prophesied to be despised and rejected by Man at his first advent.
Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

SECOND ADVENT
When Jesus comes back, He will be worshiped world-wide.
Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Psalms 150:6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

FIRST ADVENT
In the first advent of Christ, He was to be smitten of God and afflicted because of our sins.
Isaiah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

SECOND ADVENT
When Jesus returns, He will be glorified.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. V.7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

FIRST ADVENT
When Jesus came to earth the first time, He put himself in submission to human authority.
Luke 2:51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

SECOND ADVENT
When Jesus comes back, He will submit to no one on earth.
Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

FIRST ADVENT
When Jesus came the first time, He was in human form and subject to the frailties of the human body.
Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. V.2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered.
Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

SECOND ADVENT
When Jesus returns, He will be in charge of everything and everybody.
Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. V.2 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Zechariah 9:10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.
Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.



There is no coming (rapture)in between the two..........
 
There are only two advents of Christ in all of scripture

FIRST ADVENT

Jesus was prophesied to come meek and lowly on His arrival in Jerusalem.
Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
Matthew 21:5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

SECOND ADVENT
When Jesus returns, He will be in great power with His glorious resurrected body.
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

FIRST ADVENT
Jesus was prophesied to have no beauty that we would exalt Him for beauty.
Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? V.2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

SECOND ADVENT
When Jesus comes back , He will be glorious beyond our imagination.
Zechariah 9:17 For how great is his goodness, and how great is his beauty! corn shall make the young men cheerful, and new wine the maids.

FIRST ADVENT
Jesus was prophesied to be despised and rejected by Man at his first advent.
Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

SECOND ADVENT
When Jesus comes back, He will be worshiped world-wide.
Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Psalms 150:6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

FIRST ADVENT
In the first advent of Christ, He was to be smitten of God and afflicted because of our sins.
Isaiah 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

SECOND ADVENT
When Jesus returns, He will be glorified.
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. V.7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

FIRST ADVENT
When Jesus came to earth the first time, He put himself in submission to human authority.
Luke 2:51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.

SECOND ADVENT
When Jesus comes back, He will submit to no one on earth.
Revelation 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
Revelation 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

FIRST ADVENT
When Jesus came the first time, He was in human form and subject to the frailties of the human body.
Matthew 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. V.2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungered.
Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

SECOND ADVENT
When Jesus returns, He will be in charge of everything and everybody.
Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. V.2 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Zechariah 9:10 And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.
Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.



There is no coming (rapture)in between the two..........
:goodpost

And to sum up what you said in one scripture.

so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28


JLB
 
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


Jesus said those who will endure in the faith of Christ unto the end the same shall be saved. This means the end of Papal rule in 1798 which now allowed the Gospel to be preached through out the world as we have been set free from Papal authority even though Papal Rome will try to take its seat again to rule the nations from Jerusalem, which is also an abomination of desolation to God as Satan said “I will ascend into heaven; I will exalt my throne above the stars of God (other ruling powers) I will sit also upon the Mount of the Congregation in the sides of the north (Jerusalem). I will ascend above the clouds, I will be like the Most High,”.


There is no mention in scripture about a so called secret quiet rapture or a second chance after the saints of God are caught up to meet Jesus in the air as Jesus will descend with a shout and with the trump of God. This does not sound like it’s going to be a quiet so called rapture does it and every eye will see him and every knee will bow saints and those who choose to reject Jesus. The Holy Spirit dwells in us the believers and isn’t something that just floats around in the air so for this reason when we are taken up so is the Holy Spirit giving no one a second chance because we are sealed by Gods Spirit for Salvation and after the Spirit is taken up no one has a second chance.


1Thessalonians 4:16 for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


2Corinthians 1:21 Now he which establisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

2Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.


The seven year great tribulation, which is not found anywhere in scripture, was derived by mans misinterpretation of Daniel 9:24-27. This is what the Bible clearly reveals about the seventy weeks. From vs.24 to vs.27 was seventy weeks or 490 days beginning with Ezra, (Ref: Ezra Chapter 3-6), rebuilding the temple to the time of the Messiah (Jesus Christ) being fulfilled in his birth, death and resurrection. In a sense it was a literal and spiritual temple that was being built. Ezra was teaching the people of the Spiritual temple of God that indwelled in all that believed in God and of the coming of Messiah. There was actually a five hundred year span from Ezra till the birth of Jesus that God shut himself off from National Israel because of their transgressions towards the Lord, but saved a remnant that would believe in the coming of Messiah, (Ref: Isaiah Chapter 10), as still today, God waits for National Israel (all people of the world) to repent and believe in the name of Jesus.

From the time of the cross, which also means the last days, which includes what some like to separate and call the Great Tribulation, which is not mentioned anywhere in scripture and is not a separate event after the elect of God are caught up, but as the last days so we are in tribulation times until the end of the world as we know it; (Ref: Acts 2:17; Hebrews 1:1,2; Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:24-31; Luke 21:5-36). These are just some of the scriptures that support that we will go through all things of Revelation Chapters 6-21.

 
Back
Top