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Jesus in the past/Jesus in the future.

digging

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Hello friends,

Wow my other thread really grew while I was away!

I have a new topic/question to ask all of you to consider. As time goes by I'm understanding more and more why many Christians hold various preterist views.

I'm thinking I must partly hold some myself in regards to the events of Revelation anyways.

My question is based on this vs.

10Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus ; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

What IF all the time line events in Revelation are only connected to activities directly linked to Jesus Christ being on earth, as this vs implies?

For example all the events that occured between him and the Roman Empire and what followed from Rome destroying Jerusalem and the early Church (mentioned in the beasts) and then a jump in time to the events that would begin to happen once he was to return in the second coming?(ten kings) Two views of history one past, one coming all connected to involvement with Jesus?


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reba

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Psa_90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
 

Deborah13

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Revelation 1:1

King James Version (KJV)

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

I think it's all about Jesus. Past, present, and future. The Alpha and the Omega.
 

JLB

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Revelation 1:1

King James Version (KJV)

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

I think it's all about Jesus. Past, present, and future. The Alpha and the Omega.
Yes, It's all about Jesus.

Agreed!

It's about Jesus and His Kingdom.

1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this." Revelation 4:1


15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" 16 And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. 18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth." Revelation 11:15-18

The time will come when He will return and gather His people at the resurrection of the dead, and punish the wicked and those who destroy the Earth.


Amen!


JLB
 

digging

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Yes I agree it's very much about Jesus, I'm just seeing it a little more connected to past and future in many places where clear interaction with the Christ could be seen.

Reba I'm not sure what your connection is with this vs but I am most interested in understanding your point!

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Deborah13

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The time will come when He will return and gather His people at the resurrection of the dead, and punish the wicked and those who destroy the Earth.

Agreed. In the mean time, we help Him to gather His people to Him into the kingdom.
 

JLB

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The time will come when He will return and gather His people at the resurrection of the dead, and punish the wicked and those who destroy the Earth.

Agreed. In the mean time, we help Him to gather His people to Him into the kingdom.

Yes!!!


JLB
 

digging

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My studies have lead me to understand that only the firstfruits are being called and gathered in this age before the 2nd coming of Jesus, the great ingathering forshadowed in the the OT is an event to happen during the 1000's years.

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Deborah13

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My studies have lead me to understand that only the firstfruits are being called and gathered in this age before the 2nd coming of Jesus, the great ingathering forshadowed in the the OT is an event to happen during the 1000's years. Digging
Hi Digging,
Would you care to post scripture that leads you in your understanding?
 

digging

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OK here are a few main ones that have lead me to this understanding.

Exodus 23:14 "Three times a year you shall celebrate a feast to Me. 15 "You shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread ; for seven days you are to eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the appointed time in the month Abib, for in it you came out of Egypt. And none shall appear before Me empty-handed. 16 "Also you shall observe the Feast of the Harvest of the first fruits of your labors from what you sow in the field ; also the Feast of the In gathering at the end of the year when you gather in the fruit of your labors from the field.

This third feast has not yet had it's fulfillment

We know Jesus promised there will be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous, yet we also know the promise to the believer is to be a king/priest/judge why???

Ezekiel 44:23 "Moreover, they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean. 24 "In a dispute they shall take their stand to judge ; they shall judge it according to My ordinances.

I see this as the purpose of the 1000's years it is the time when every single human being gets a fair and honest opportunity to hear the call of the Great Shepherd. The resurrected righteous will surely help with this the same way the apostles and disciples did in the past.

Rev 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come ; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.

I see this as the calling work to come at the return of Jesus when the Bride is fully restored.

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Deborah13

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Revelation 22
14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”
17 The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” And let the one who hears say, “Come.” And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.

If I understand you correctly, I see this a little differently. I see this is what has been going on ever since the cross, in building the kingdom and that when Jesus comes that opportunity will be over.

Ezekiel I'm just not sure of. The four beasts are mentioned in both books. And there is some other terminology that I have found. But I can't get it directly connected to this "1000" yrs time period. Still looking.

Maybe you could elaborate on your thinks about the Feasts, not sure what you are getting at.

As far as being priests...

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ


Revelation 1:6
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

We know we are priests already and a peculiar people in His kingdom that He reigns over now.
Hebrews 12
20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)
22 But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

So to me this says we are already in the kingdom, He is gathering His people to Him now, through His Gospel and the witnessing of His saints. When He done He will return for all of us. I think this is the first resurrection.
The second will be those who died without accepting Him. The ones who are not sealed by the Holy Spirit and protected.
 

digging

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I have to go to work today so I will not be able to reply until later, however we are not that far off, I agree with many points you just made, my details are just a little different! I will share more with you later!

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digging

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I agree the gathering and calling of the faithful has been going on for a long time. All the faithful have been given a promise of restoration and to live under the full blessing of God forever. However I think we agree the completion of the promise has not happened yet we are still waiting because we are waiting for the resurrection of the firstfruits/bride. I don't see Rev 22 happening because the Bride needs to say this with the spirit and the Bride group has not yet been resurrected? I don't believe God's Kindgom is here in the fullest sense, we have a sure promise and we are choosing to follow the King as we wait for the pouring down of God's full and complete blessing when Christ returns.

Luke 13:28....when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.29"And they http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/luke/13.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-34will come from east and west and from north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God.

Again yes we are priests, yet notice the vs also reads future

but they shall be priests of God and of Christ

Right now I feel we are in this relationship between ourselve and God with Christ,we are our own priest because we come before him in prayer, we are our own Judge because we have a cleansed conscience, we are our own King because no man is above us before our Father. However in the future during the 1000's years I believe our purpose and work will expand and we will serve God by joining our voice to the calling of all men to the water of life.

Personally I believe only the firstfruits will be resurrected to immortality and everyone else is resurrected as an 'unrighteous one', not to say they are all evil, but they will just still sinful and under the curse from Adam. They will still be subject to the second death unless they develope faith and hear the call to come and drink!

More later, Thanks for all your points!

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JLB

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This third feast has not yet had it's fulfillment
Christ Jesus is the fulfillment of this feast, for he is the firstfruit among many brethren.

The Lord Jesus was raised from the dead on this feast, fulfilling it.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 1 Corinthians 15:20


JLB
 

digging

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The first and 2nd feast I agree have seen the Christian fufillment but I don't see the 3rd one yet fufilled, the feast of the ingathering from all the crops.

Three National Feasts

14 "http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-17Three times a year you shall celebrate a feast to Me. 15 "You shall observe http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-18the Feast of Unleavened Bread ; for seven days you are to eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the appointed time in the http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-19month Abib, for in it you came out of Egypt. And http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-mhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-20none shall appear before Me empty-handed. 16 "Also you shall observe http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-21the Feast of the Harvest of the first fruits of your labors from what you sow in the field ; also the Feast of the Ingathering at the end of the year http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-22when you gather in the fruit of your labors from the field. 17 "http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-23Three times a year all your males shall appear before the Lord http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-nGOD.
 

JLB

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The first and 2nd feast I agree have seen the Christian fufillment but I don't see the 3rd one yet fufilled, the feast of the ingathering from all the crops.

Three National Feasts

14 "http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-17Three times a year you shall celebrate a feast to Me. 15 "You shall observe http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-18the Feast of Unleavened Bread ; for seven days you are to eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the appointed time in the http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-19month Abib, for in it you came out of Egypt. And http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-mhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-20none shall appear before Me empty-handed. 16 "Also you shall observe http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-21the Feast of the Harvest of the first fruits of your labors from what you sow in the field ; also the Feast of the Ingathering at the end of the year http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-22when you gather in the fruit of your labors from the field. 17 "http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-23Three times a year all your males shall appear before the Lord http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/exodus/23.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-nGOD.
Yes, agreed!

The feast of in gathering is when The Lord returns and GATHERS His people at the resurrection and rapture.

24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; 25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. 26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven. Mark 13:24-27

JLB
 

digging

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Well see I'm not seeing the feast exactly the same as you. I see the 2nd feast as a type for the calling of all the righteous during this age since Abel, the Bride group who receive the first resurrection. The 3rd feast I understand to symbolize a much larger group of saved ones who will be gathered and blessed in the future after the return of Jesus.

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How long will the earth last with out sun light?
I wouldn't think that man would last days since the earth cant retain heat long. just look at a desert. it can be 100 plus in the mid day and at night 40.some areas might retain heat a little longer but not by much. nevermind plants need the uv radiation. oh yeah don't forget that stars falling from the sky thing
 

JLB

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4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south. 5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You. 6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish. 7 It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord-- Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light.
Zechariah 14:4-7

We see the same concept here in Zechariah.


JLB
 
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