JLB discusses speaking in tongues

[JohnDB]

Asking and receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit, is not doing backflips.


You don’t seem to be interested in discussing the scriptures I gave about how the early Church received the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Why don’t you share the scriptures that tell us the Holy Spirit is given to us at the moment of the new birth.




JLB

Maybe a look at the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament would give someone a better idea.

God does what He Wants
WHEN He wants and not on any proscribed time table of man. It's not an "if-then" statement like a computer program has.

To quote a line from CS Lewis
"He's not a tame Lion."
It may have appeared that way to Simon Magnus (offered money for the Holy Spirit) but it just wasn't.

 

[ezra]

Why don’t you share the scriptures that tell us the Holy Spirit is given to us at the moment of the new birth.

better yet tell us how you get it? beg for it pray for it? its a spiritual birth born of the spirit.. a spiritual seed has to be planted the result the spiritual birth and the spirit is given to us.. just like when born we have our parents d n a ( might i also add the spirit quickens brings to life.. why would the spirit quicken and not give us the holy spirit at conception.} no man laid hands on me when i got the spirit.. when i went to the altar said God save me.he gave me the the Holy GHOST. i am more than fully aware of your belief .maybe not every inch of detail .but enough to understand.. no i dont agree just like i dont agree with john on born again ==error

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 <And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. > key verse

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

agree or dis agree no matter to me i can stand on my own

 

[ezra]

How you come to the conclusions you do.

same way as you see i dont fully understand all these big words hermeneutics yes i know what the word means ..i study is how i come to my conclusion.. no i will not agree the words Born Again as error .. i dont have a big college degree nor does it take all the tools man uses to study with in fact many of the preachers i know and have known had a grade school education

 

[ezra]

hermeneutics [ < Greek hermeneu(te)s (interpreter). ] Definition: The science of interpretation of a story or text, and the methods used in that science. might i add my methods are unorthodox in manner -i tend break the rules of engagement when the dust is settled i make my point .but when dealing methods of interpretation .. your not going to get a full agreement . i seldom dont agree with JLB on his interpretation. in this post we found some common ground .. see i dont ask anyone to jump on my band wagon.. this forum is just a hobby something i enjoy ..when i go to the pulpit and preach .i keep on a level of simple understanding ..i dont use greek words..i do give definitions and lay a foundation and build up . tonight i will preach on am i my brothers keeper ? the answer is yes we are . it will be interesting to see how the LORD leads

 

[JLB]

Maybe a look at the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament would give someone a better idea.

God does what He Wants
WHEN He wants and not on any proscribed time table of man. It's not an "if-then" statement like a computer program has.

To quote a line from CS Lewis
"He's not a tame Lion."
It may have appeared that way to Simon Magnus (offered money for the Holy Spirit) but it just wasn't.

Where are the scriptures ?


And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
Acts 5:32




JLB

 

[JLB]

better yet tell us how you get it? beg for it pray for it? its a spiritual birth born of the spirit.. a spiritual seed has to be planted the result the spiritual birth and the spirit is given to us.. just like when born we have our parents d n a ( might i also add the spirit quickens brings to life.. why would the spirit quicken and not give us the holy spirit at conception.} no man laid hands on me when i got the spirit.. when i went to the altar said God save me.he gave me the the Holy GHOST. i am more than fully aware of your belief .maybe not every inch of detail .but enough to understand.. no i dont agree just like i dont agree with john on born again ==error

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 <And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. > key verse

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

agree or dis agree no matter to me i can stand on my own

Obedience.



And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”
Acts 5:32




JLB

 

[ezra]

Obedience.

if your led of the spirit we obey --curious do you walk in complete Obedience. % 100 of the time. the Bible tells us to be led and walk in the spirit ..we have our spirit flesh the Holy spirit might i add the night i got saved i was given the spirit !!! i was a babe in Christ had no idea what it was to obey .. i certainly learned holy ghost school hard knocks .i also learned how to pray and let the Holy spirit take care of problems ..with a few trip to God wood shed

 

[JLB]

if your led of the spirit we obey --curious do you walk in complete Obedience. % 100 of the time. the Bible tells us to be led and walk in the spirit .

If I don’t it means I sin.

If I sin, then I confess my sin and He is faithful and just to forgive and to cleanse me of all unrighteousness.



JLB

 

[JLB]

also learned how to pray and let the Holy spirit take care of problems ..with a few trip to God wood shed

Amen.


I probably have you beat on trips to the wood shed.


I learned the hard way about eating the fruit of my own way.




JLB

 

[Randy]

Ok.

So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. John 20:21-22


So now they have the Spirit of Christ, The Holy Spirit, by which they are one with Christ.


However, Jesus went on to say this -


And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5


you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.



Do you see this baptism with the Holy Spirit comes after they are regenerated and are one with Christ, as the example I gave from Acts 8:14-17 shows?



JLB

I have not had this: They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. I do have the Spirit of Christ in me. I have never spoken in tongues. I do have the Spirit of Christ in me. I have heard from the head of the body of Christ via the Spirit. I have felt the inward surge of the Spirit to my spirit as a sign to me that I belong to Jesus. He and I are one. There is no other promise. Anything is possible by the will of Christ Jesus and according to HIS purposes via the Spirit. But such clothing is outward not part of my being. Many miracles were performed by the disciples by the Spirit of God as a testimony to all of the hope found in the gospel message. Even Stephen the man that was picked to wait on tables, Gods faithful witness, performed signs.

In regard to the new birth for those born of the Spirit.
John 14:17 The Holy Spirit was with them and on that day would be in them. That promise is too all and starting with the Jewish disciples then with Cornelius who received the same Spirit the promise was sent to the gentiles as well. Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit.
Vs 20 A common frame of reference to understand
On that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.

So that is the promise to all those God calls as in Christ in us not the Spirit of God coming down and remaining on us for special ministry in accordance to Gods will and for His purposes. And Clothed is outward not inward. Not part of our being. A portion of the Spirit of God was on Moses. The fullness of the Spirit of God came down and remained on Jesus as John testified to that event.

And its the inward Circumcision by the Spirit of God of the heart that counts. Those born of God a new creation.

So there is no 2nd work of grace that changes our being that was promised. The gentiles were baptized and received the same Spirit that was given to the Apostles. Christ in us. And no one is born of the Spirit apart from Jesus.

 

[JLB]

I do have the Spirit of Christ in me. I have never spoken in tongues. I do have the Spirit of Christ in me.

I believe you.



JLB

 

[JLB]

I have heard from the head of the body of Christ via the Spirit. I have felt the inward surge of the Spirit to my spirit as a sign to me that I belong to Jesus. He and I are one.

Amen.


You are blessed.



JLB

 

[JLB]

In regard to the new birth for those born of the Spirit.
John 14:17 The Holy Spirit was with them and on that day would be in them. That promise is too all and starting with the Jewish disciples then with Cornelius who received the same Spirit the promise was sent to the gentiles as well. Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit.
Vs 20 A common frame of reference to understand
On that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.

Amen.


Great scripture.



JLB

 

[JLB]

So that is the promise to all those God calls as in Christ in us not the Spirit of God coming down and remaining on us for special ministry in accordance to Gods will and for His purposes. And Clothed is outward not inward. Not part of our being. A portion of the Spirit of God was on Moses. The fullness of the Spirit of God came down and remained on Jesus as John testified to that event.

Being filled with His Spirit, because we have a new nature that is compatible with His Spirit, that is free of sin, is God’s will.


And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4




JLB

 

[Randy]

Being filled with His Spirit, because we have a new nature that is compatible with His Spirit, that is free of sin, is God’s will.


And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4




JLB

John Wesley observed Christians and found some to be loving and having their faith expressed through love while others didn't. He likened that sanctification process to 2 works of grace. I would liken it to those who did have the Spirit of Christ in them and those that didn't have the Spirit of Christ in them. Of course you also have "seasoning" which is growth in wisdom and knowledge from years of experience in regard to sanctification but that wouldn't be a 2nd work of grace that changes your being.

Like I stated we just have to put Jesus's commands into practice. If we have Christ in us we have all that we need to live a Godly life. A good tree doesn't bare bad fruit.

 

[JLB]

John Wesley observed Christians and found some to be loving and having their faith expressed through love while others didn't. He likened that sanctification process to 2 works of grace. I would liken it to those who did have the Spirit of Christ in them and those that didn't have the Spirit of Christ in them. Of course you also have "seasoning" which is growth in wisdom and knowledge from years of experience in regard to sanctification but that wouldn't be a 2nd work of grace that changes your being.

Like I stated we just have to put Jesus's commands into practice. If we have Christ in us we have all that we need to live a Godly life. A good tree doesn't bare bad fruit.

I agree, but what about the baptism with the Holy Spirit?


Do you not believe in this?


JLB

 

[Randy]

I agree, but what about the baptism with the Holy Spirit?


Do you not believe in this?


JLB

I agree, but what about the baptism with the Holy Spirit?


Do you not believe in this?


JLB

Not as you do.
I believe Peter defined the meaning of acts 2 and it equates to me born anew. He quoted Joel 2:28-32 in regard to these last days. Then stated this.
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. As in Christ in us. I think acts 2 stood as a testimony of this new birth. Hence the powerful signs given. You can't normally see or hear the HS. Yet in this case both audible and visual signs were given.
There is no record of Moses being baptized with the HS yet the Holy Spirit. Yet The HS was on Him. The amount determined by God. Such anointing is at Gods will and for His purposes. There is no promise teaching or practice to be baptized with the HS as a separate distinct event from born of the Spirit. Much is written about the new creation birth. And there is practice and promise and teaching in place for such a baptism.

 

[GodsGrace]

My thought would be to see how the first Christians understood it. My thinking is that the whole purpose of circumcision was a visible sign that one was in the Old Covenant. It was done once and that was it. I see the same thing in baptism. It's a visible sign that is done once. The Eucharist is an ongoing thing. It's done over and over. It could be a sign, but I think baptism aligns better with circumcision which we know for sure was a sign of the convenant

Yes... Circumcision was the sign for the Abrahamic Covenant.
I pulled out my old notes and I had written Baptism and then I crossed it out and wrote Eucharist! It made me giggle.

So...I looked it up on the net...not something I like to do.
Here's what I found....thought you'd like this.

Is Baptism the Sign of the New Covenant?

Let me start by saying that I have no theological axe to grind on this issue, and I am not trying to protect or attack any particular doctrinal view in raising this question. I am simply trying to …

expositorythoughts.wordpress.com

Is baptism the New Covenant equivalent of circumcision? | GotQuestions.org

Is baptism the New Covenant equivalent of circumcision? Does baptism have the same meaning in the New Covenant that circumcision had in the Old Covenant?

www.gotquestions.org

Have fun!
Coming to a conclusion would require too much study and I'm not about to do this type of studying anymore. I plead No Contest.

It's good that you have a belief on this....

 

[ezra]

I agree, but what about the baptism with the Holy Spirit?


Do you not believe in this?


JLB

if your referring to the evidence of speaking in tongues ..i say no---- i believe baptism with the Holy Spirit .is our new birth For also in one Spirit we all were baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink one Spirit.
"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
i have the power of the spirit in me
either interpretation is fine with me we agree to disagree i have friends that most likely believe you we get along just fine
all though the answer to your question will depend on who is asked . much like osas .

 

[JLB]

if your referring to the evidence of speaking in tongues ..i say no---- i believe baptism with the Holy Spirit .is our new birth For also in one Spirit we all were baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink one Spirit.
"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
i have the power of the spirit in me
either interpretation is fine with me we agree to disagree i have friends that most likely believe you we get along just fine
all though the answer to your question will depend on who is asked . much like osas .

I have posted the scriptures for the three baptisms in this thread so many times, I actually had to apologize to Jeff for overstating it too many times.


Did you read it?


I’ll be glad to post it again.



The baptism you referred to is from
1 Corinthians 12:13, and shows us how the Holy Spirit baptises us into Christ.



For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13


As you stated this happens when we are born again.




JLB