King Saul - heaven or hell??

[FreeGrace]

The way I see things, there is a place "Sheol" that has different sections to it. Some are tormented and some are not. Paradise is one of those places. When Jesus died on the cross, He told one of the thieves that he would be with Him before the sun has set in paradise. Yet Jesus did not ascend to Heaven until after he rose from the dead three days later. So Paradise is definitely in Sheol and not in heaven.

If I had a friend over and he was in the living room watching TV and I was in the kitchen and his wife called me (maybe his cell phone doesnt work) and she asked me if he was with me, I would say "yes. He was over here with me." Even though we were in different sections of the house. I tend to wonder if this could be the same thing with Saul and Samuel. When Samuel said "Tomorrow you and your sons will be with me", could this not be "Sheol" in general and not be specific to which section of Sheol? He never specifies that Saul will be in Paradise with him. So in a sense, I do see this as just telling him he would be dying tomorrow because everyone went to Sheol then and Sheol is mentioned several times in the Bible without specifying the different sections like Paradise.

However, studying what Jesus said about a rich man and a poor man named Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31, we learn that while both the Lazarus and the rich man were in sheol, Abraham noted this:
24 So he (the rich man) called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.

26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

From this, it doesn't seem likely that Samuel was being so general, even given you example.

Further, Scripture makes this comment in 1 Samuel 10-
5 “After that you will go to Gibeah of God, where there is a Philistine outpost. As you approach the town, you will meet a procession of prophets coming down from the high place with lyres, timbrels, pipes and harps being played before them, and they will be prophesying.

6 The Spirit of the LORD will come powerfully upon you, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person.

7 Once these signs are fulfilled, do whatever your hand finds to do, for God is with you.

9 As Saul turned to leave Samuel, God changed Saul’s heart, and all these signs were fulfilled that day.

10 When he and his servant arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God came powerfully upon him, and he joined in their prophesying.

11 When all those who had formerly known him saw him prophesying with the prophets, they asked each other, “What is this that has happened to the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?”

12 A man who lived there answered, “And who is their father?” So it became a saying: “Is Saul also among the prophets?”

13 After Saul stopped prophesying, he went to the high place.

From all this, I conclude that Saul was a believer.

 

[Jim Parker]

For those who think that salvation can be lost

"Those" would include the apostle Paul.
Rom 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.
1Co 15:1-2 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
Col 1:21-23 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
1Ti 6:20-21 Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. Turn away from godless chatter and the opposing ideas of what is falsely called knowledge, which some have professed and in so doing have departed from the faith.

And then there's the teaching in Hebrews:
Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

And, of course, Jesus had something to say as well.
Jhn 15:1-2 I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit,
Jhn 15:6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
Luk 8:13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

And Peter:
2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

 

[chessman]

Those" would include the apostle Paul.

Not a single verse listed says anything about loss of salvation. I checked them twice over just to make sure.

 

[JLB]

Not a single verse listed says anything about loss of salvation. I checked them twice over just to make sure.

Every single verse teaches and warns us that salvation is contingent upon a continuing obedience to God which is all about love.

Loving God and loving our neighbor.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

Two Christian brothers are mentioned in this exhortation.

I just don’t see how anyone could miss it.


2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2

• For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments.

JLB

 

[JohnDB]

Ok guys...
We aren't going to rehash this.

Nobody wins this debate.
If someone could have it would have been decided 3,000 years ago.

But it hasn't...

So...this one is closed.