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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits...
- Thread starter Eventide
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Eventide
Member
Any discussion of end times, without the distinction between the Israel of God and the church of God.. will be constantly confusing the two.. Or most likely taking portions of scripture like Matt 24 and applying its teaching to the church of God.
Well, if that's the case, let's hope that we're not all in Judaea and that it doesn't happen on the sabbath.
Well, if that's the case, let's hope that we're not all in Judaea and that it doesn't happen on the sabbath.
W
Watchmen for Christ
Guest
Revelation 7:9
King James Version (KJV)
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Revelation 7:13-17
King James Version (KJV)
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Revelation 19:7-9
King James Version (KJV)
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
rev 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Eventide
Member
You mean like this..
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
tim-from-pa
Member
I hear ya. You don't have to convince me the importance of Israel as the bible is basically a book about Israel, but became subject to Gentiles' thoughts. And I can't imagine this text being taken other than literally --- certainly this is not an allegory by the context, and this is not some replacement theology "spiritual Israel" since he clearly mentions genealogies which is of the flesh. Funny thing is that while this passage about Israel is explained away to save the skin of someone's cherished theology, other passages of Paul are taken literally enough. Go figure.
Deborah13
Member
Yes, it must be taken literally. Many do not take it literally. Who does PAUL say Israel is? Who does PAUL say is the Seed of Abraham?
Paul, explained this. So why do some not that PAUL'S other words literally?
Deborah13
Member
imo, those who do not take all of Paul's words literally, are doing a great disservice to the people of the Jewish faith.
Let me ask this, someone who has converted to Judaism, will they be saved also when ALL Israel will be saved? If so How?
[MENTION=29288]Eventide[/MENTION] and [MENTION=52486]tim-from-pa[/MENTION]
Let me ask this, someone who has converted to Judaism, will they be saved also when ALL Israel will be saved? If so How?
[MENTION=29288]Eventide[/MENTION] and [MENTION=52486]tim-from-pa[/MENTION]
I Agree and Know what you are saying.
The mystery is the Church. Israel is not the mystery. Israel becomes a mystery if The Christian does not study and Get to know mystery doctrine. Most Christians do not understand the distinctions between Israel and the Church. We Get to see these distinctions through study of mystery doctrine.
Just like saying," the 7 year tribulation is For Israel." That thought will Get SHOT down from those who do not understand mystery doctrine.
farouk
Member
[MENTION=95330]gr8grace[/MENTION]:
Like you say, an importance interpretational principle in Scripture is the distinction between Israel and the church, and more broadly the idea of knowing who the passage in question is talking about.
It used to be said: 'All Scripture is for us; all Scripture is not about us'.
Blessings.
Like you say, an importance interpretational principle in Scripture is the distinction between Israel and the church, and more broadly the idea of knowing who the passage in question is talking about.
It used to be said: 'All Scripture is for us; all Scripture is not about us'.
Blessings.
tim-from-pa
Member
Salvation by the blood of Jesus. Likewise, the ark of the covenant was 2.5 cubits long. That's right. Now, let's get back to the subject of this thread.
tim-from-pa
Member
Yes, that's right, and in addition I forgot to mention the covenants Paul is mentioning here. What are the covenants? They are found in Genesis some of which are obtaining the land of inheritance, becoming a great population size, becoming one nation AND many nations (Paul also mentions this in Romans 4), having a distinct lineage of Kings, great power and resources, etc etc. These are concrete, physical promises to Israel in which through these also came Christ, for salvation promised to all Israel. Why? Because they are good? No, Paul says for the sake of the fathers' because of their faith they would not see their kids perish as well as being a great people. But the OT is clear that one day God will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and house of Judah regarding the Law, not one kept by their flesh in which the Law is powerless to save, but that the law is written in their hearts. That's the spiritual component (aka saved by the blood of Christ) promised along with their earthly blessings.
Deborah13
Member
farouk
Member
[MENTION=93058]Deborah13[/MENTION]:
Jacob (named Israel) and his sons were given land as an inheritance in the Old Testament.
In the New Testament, as Acts and Galatians, etc. demonstrate, the Gospel-believing church is made of those from both Jewish and Gentile backgrounds.
Blessings.
Deborah13
Member
Romans 11 KJV
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
What does this scripture say to you?
Why would Paul be concerned for his blood brothers, if ALL his blood brothers, would be saved?