Lose Your Salvation in Two Easy Steps

[destiny]

1.It is not good at all to allow someone to explain scripture away for the sake of building a doctrine that agrees with the opinions that are taught by man. I would imagine that there are many more on this forum and possibly many other christian forums who believe in OSAS than not, because so many of the mainstream churches make this doctrine their mantra and pretty much a mandate.

2. It's just that your doctrine is a license to sin.

1. Again - the greatest preachers, missionaries, writers, evangelists, and pastors in past history held to the doctrine of eternal security. Look at the fake faith healers, fake TV preachers, charismatic gifters, liberal churches of today - they believe you can lose it - what a crowd!

2. Wrong - Look at the lives of today's modern fake faith healers, fake TV preachers, charismatic gifters, liberal churches of today - they believe you can lose it - what a crowd! Compare the lives of grace believers with the lose-its and you will find out who lives closer to the book.

Grace teaches one how to live - you folks live by the law.


I do personal work - I run into your crowd out there and they live looser than grace believers.

If you call walking with Jesus and obeying Him law, then I live by law according to you. That seems to be what you are calling law. I also believe in grace, but I don't think you have an understanding of what grace is except what has been dictated to you over the years through church doctrines.

As for the rest of your post all I can say is that I believe the bible and stay out of all that religious whoredom.

 

[francisdesales]

1.It is not good at all to allow someone to explain scripture away for the sake of building a doctrine that agrees with the opinions that are taught by man. I would imagine that there are many more on this forum and possibly many other christian forums who believe in OSAS than not, because so many of the mainstream churches make this doctrine their mantra and pretty much a mandate.

2. It's just that your doctrine is a license to sin.

1. Again - the greatest preachers, missionaries, writers, evangelists, and pastors in past history held to the doctrine of eternal security. Look at the fake faith healers, fake TV preachers, charismatic gifters, liberal churches of today - they believe you can lose it - what a crowd!

2. Wrong - Look at the lives of today's modern fake faith healers, fake TV preachers, charismatic gifters, liberal churches of today - they believe you can lose it - what a crowd! Compare the lives of grace believers with the lose-its and you will find out who lives closer to the book.

Grace teaches one how to live - you folks live by the law.

I do personal work - I run into your crowd out there and they live looser than grace believers.

Can you say "over dramatic generalizations"????

Which of the greatest preachers, writers and pastors of the first 1500 years of Christianity mentioned "eternal security" as defined by you??? Did St. Augustine or Thomas Aquinas or Bonaventure or Anselm etc.... ever mention this???? What a hoot...

It is a newly invented, new-fangled doctrine of men, quite simply.

The OSAS crowd has their share of "fake healers, etc", as well... Believing that one can lose or never lose their salvation doesn't seem to be coorelative to phony Christians.

 

[jasoncran]

just curious if you fell away then how does hebrews 6 not say salvation for those that is possible( that have tasted the things of the holy spirit and goodness of God).

its impossible for men to be saved when they have sinnned willingly and made a fresh the cruficixation of christ.

destiny have you ever sinned knowingly? Have you ever told a lie, knowing full well its a lie, or stole and know then you are stealing and so on.
and do so anyway
then salvation isnt possible for you at all then. i fall into the category if what you say is true.

in my heart of hearts i knew that being bi was wrong and lusted after that men anyway.I did repent ere i fell into that sin. i darnwell knew what the Lord said on that. but i wanted to hear what i wanted.

 

[destiny]

just curious if you fell away then how does hebrews 6 not say salvation for those that is possible( that have tasted the things of the holy spirit and goodness of God).

its impossible for men to be saved when they have sinnned willingly and made a fresh the cruficixation of christ.

destiny have you ever sinned knowingly? Have you ever told a lie, knowing full well its a lie, or stole and know then you are stealing and so on.
and do so anyway
then salvation isnt possible for you at all then. i fall into the category if what you say is true.

in my heart of hearts i knew that being bi was wrong and lusted after that men anyway.I did repent ere i fell into that sin. i darnwell knew what the Lord said on that. but i wanted to hear what i wanted.

Jason I cannot pretend to know at what point a person crosses that line, that is Gods call. No person here knows it either although they will try to act like they do. I do know what it is for God to force me to choose after drifting away from Him, and I was well aware it was a choice that would change the course of my eternal destination. And this, after being saved for years.

 

[AVBunyan]

1. Can you say "over dramatic generalizations"????

2. The OSAS crowd has their share of "fake healers, etc", as well...

3. Believing that one can lose or never lose their salvation doesn't seem to be coorelative to phony Christians.

1. No - I make this claim after reading church history and 30 years of personal work.

2. OSAS generally are against fake healers and their doctrines.

3. My opinion after 30 years of observation and study is that most (not all - there are some but few) of those who believe they can lose it are most likely unregenerate for one who believes he can lose it is definitely off on the doctrine of justification.

 

[jasoncran]

that's the core argument of this debate. you do realize that.

can it be lost if so how can the person truly repent, he cant if you take hebrews 6 in that manner

so if that line is crossed and we let that person preach and teach what then, are they forgiveable by god. (their sins)

you know that when you sin you are sinning if you have the love of christ in you. unless you think that the lord wont warn you to repent when you are thinking about that sin too much. i aint talking about temptation but rather the plan to sin.

 

[duval]

Folks not only didn't Augustine etc., not teach it but neither did Jesus and His apostles.

 

[destiny]

Folks not only didn't Augustine etc., not teach it but neither did Jesus and His apostles.

I would have to rip out too much scripture to make OSAS fit.. so I won't touch it.

 

[AVBunyan]

Hi Bunyan

Its not a question of how many believe this and that or how many and who do not. The question is: What does the Blble teach!
duval

True but.....
Cop out - the crowd I mentioned studied the bible more than 99% of today's "saints".. The bible teaches in this age of grace that the sinner is justified by the faith of Christ alone.

Would you mind writing out your definition of justification - I wrote out mine - can you do the same?

Please provide me a short list of "lose-its" that had any positive impact on church history.

I stand by my below statement and I have written church history backing me on this.

The greatest preachers, missionaries, writers, evangelists, and pastors in past history held to the doctrine of eternal security.

 

[Elf]

just curious if you fell away then how does hebrews 6 not say salvation for those that is possible( that have tasted the things of the holy spirit and goodness of God).

its impossible for men to be saved when they have sinnned willingly and made a fresh the cruficixation of christ.

destiny have you ever sinned knowingly? Have you ever told a lie, knowing full well its a lie, or stole and know then you are stealing and so on.
and do so anyway
then salvation isnt possible for you at all then. i fall into the category if what you say is true.

in my heart of hearts i knew that being bi was wrong and lusted after that men anyway.I did repent ere i fell into that sin. i darnwell knew what the Lord said on that. but i wanted to hear what i wanted.

jason, I thank God for you and your honesty.
Some things are not easy to share with others, you show honesty and strength, and such a desire for truth. I pray God will richly bless you.

Praise God.

 

[AVBunyan]

Folks not only didn't Augustine etc., not teach it but neither did Jesus and His apostles.

Paul taught it and it appears you are unfamiliar with Paul. Paul got his doctrine straight from Christ himself - Paul got the latest instructions from Christ - I start with Paul.

The greatest soul winners ever (George Whitefield, CH Spurgeon, DL Moody, etc.) believed OSAS.

Look at all the modern fake healers and liberal preachers today - they believe you can lose it. Ole Jimmy Swaggart believed you could lose it - so according to his own words I guess he lost it after getting caught in sexual sins.

Look at the whimpy books your crowd writes - pitiful stuff. Compare their whimpy works with those of the Puritans!

 

[Elf]

Which of the greatest preachers, writers and pastors of the first 1500 years of Christianity mentioned "eternal security" as defined by you??? Did St. Augustine or Thomas Aquinas or Bonaventure or Anselm etc.... ever mention this???? What a hoot...

Um, you better read Augustine again friend. Especially his writings about palagianism.

It is a newly invented, new-fangled doctrine of men, quite simply.

Not according to Jesus.

The OSAS crowd has their share of "fake healers, etc", as well...

Yes thay do, along with the non-OSAS believers and Roman Catholics. Looks like we all have something in common, huh?

 

[jasoncran]

well when a 'saint' sins he knows what he is doing if he plans to do it.

yes some sins are commited by mistake, but how many times are we knowingly looking at the woman who just walked by and looking again and think man look at that! we know after the second look we have sinned willfully!

it can be any sin or what about those hard to defeat sins
such as:
drunkeness
lust
drugs
lies
greed
anger

and so on

 

[shad]

We lose our salvation if we are not obedient to Jesus until the end. It is that simple.

.

 

[Elf]

Folks not only didn't Augustine etc., not teach it but neither did Jesus and His apostles.

I would have to rip out too much scripture to make OSAS fit.. so I won't touch it.

No, actually the more you present, the more it will prove OSAS or rather Perseverance of the saints, you just have to desire truth to see it.

The best thing to do is, pray first asking God to show you His truths in scripture, and take off those colored glasses.

 

[Elf]

Look at the whimpy books your crowd writes - pitiful stuff. Compare their whimpy works with those of the Puritans!

Aint that the truth!

 

[jasoncran]

shad, if you arent saved till death, then how come paul never said that?

when the apostle wrote the nt after the books of acts. the words saint are used

so if you arent saved till after death the you arent a saint then but rather in same class as the unbeliever

did paul not say for to absent in body is to be present with the Lord. so if he believed that one must be told you have to be saved upon judgement then why not include that after the the white throne judgement and you are counted worthy then you can and will be with the Lord.

 

[Elf]

We lose our salvation if we are not obedient to Jesus until the end. It is that simple.

.

Works based salvation.

How do you figure it in the end?
If the good you have done out weighs the bad?
Or make sure you don't forget to confess that last sin before you die?
Good grief what a life.

 

[duval]

Hi folks

All that "ain't that the truth" folksy stuff in the last several posts and--------------no scriptiure!

 

[Elf]

shad, if you arent saved till death, then how come paul never said that?

when the apostle wrote the nt after the books of acts. the words saint are used

so if you arent saved till after death the you arent a saint then but rather in same class as the unbeliever

That's just one of those doctrines of demons.