Lose Your Salvation in Two Easy Steps

[glorydaz]

Folks not only didn't Augustine etc., not teach it but neither did Jesus and His apostles.

Paul taught it and it appears you are unfamiliar with Paul. Paul got his doctrine straight from Christ himself - Paul got the latest instructions from Christ - I start with Paul.

The greatest soul winners ever (George Whitefield, CH Spurgeon, DL Moody, etc.) believed OSAS.

Look at all the modern fake healers and liberal preachers today - they believe you can lose it. Ole Jimmy Swaggart believed you could lose it - so according to his own words I guess he lost it after getting caught in sexual sins.

Look at the whimpy books your crowd writes - pitiful stuff. Compare their whimpy works with those of the Puritans!

LOL....you can be sure Spurgeon etal had assurance of their salvation. They would never, for a moment, claim they were keeping themselves. And, of course, Paul counted himself the chiefest of sinners...some people hate hearing that. They'd rather twist other things Paul said to fit their sad belief that Jesus will forsake those who fail to maintain their own righteousness. "Oh, He doesn't forsake us, we forsake Him". What's the deal with that...are they born again new creatures empowered by God or not? Is eternal no longer eternal now-a-days? I thank the Lord I'm old and haven't been indoctrinated with this humanistic gospel I'm hearing preached.

It goes right along with this name it claim it word of faith teaching...man has lifted himself up above his Creator. It's the pride of life...man on his pedestal.

 

[jasoncran]

you should add in aw.tozer to that list.

 

[destiny]

Someone in this topic said we believers don't need to obey Jesus and that to do so is considered a work. I'm sure it would only be a work for anyone who is carnal and lost! This would also explain why the youth at a certain church that teaches OSAS (as I mentioned previously), are binge drinking and running wild.

People are always looking for loop holes so they can sin without having to feel any conviction, and pillows to cushion them so they don't have to take up a cross and FOLLOW Jesus.. AS THE BIBLE SAYS. The doctrines of man and devils will provide those things very eagerly.

 

[destiny]

so each time we sin then we need to pray the sinners prayer then?

Is that really what those verses are saying Jason? "You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?"
Galatians 5:7

no,but each time you sin what that christ stays in you. so if you were die right now and fail to repent of that sin you just commited, where would you be?

hell or heaven

if its hell then each time you sin christ has left you as h.s doesnt dwell in an unclean thing. no holy spirit that dwells there, no christ. i aint talking about the gift, but the initail recept upon salvation.

i dont beleive that you need baptism or the gifts to be saved, but those are commanded and should be sought for. baptism is the outer sign to the world that you are a born again.

If I sin his blood covers my sin because as a born again believer my heart is repentant and I don't continue in sin. But if I begin living a sinful life because I've began to neglect my relationship with Jesus, then my life will become no different than my old life of sin before salvation. I will end up having rejected his work on the cross and it's conditions.
And Jesus said to him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God. Luke 9:62

 

[AVBunyan]

If I sin his blood covers my sin because as a born again believer my heart is repentant and I don't continue in sin. But if I begin living a sinful life because I've began to neglect my relationship with Jesus, then my life will become no different than my old life of sin before salvation. I will end up having rejected his work on the cross and it's conditions.

This is you trusting in YOU = works salvation.

 

[Mysteryman]

This is talking about the blessings of God, not the salvation of God ! There seems to be a constant attempt to make certain claims that are not true, by using scripture out of its proper context. Romans 11:17 talks about those who were broken off, as they were a part of the fatness of the olive tree. The word "fatness" here is dealing with the fullness of the fruit. It is dealing with rewards or crowns, within eternal life.

Romans 11:26 - "And so all Israel shall be saved "
Romans 11:27 - "For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins"

Romans 11:25 - "For I would not brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits ; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles come in"

For many, this mystery is not understood because of ignorance. Israel was kept blind to the fact of the gentiles coming into the fullness of God. Israel thought they were God's people and no one else. This blinded them, so that they could not accept that God was calling the gentiles as well.

The full context continues on within chpater 11, so lets keep reading.

Romans 11:29 - "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance" < I challenge some of you to handle this one !

Romans 11:30 - "For as ye in times past have not believed God (Gentiles) , yet have now obtained mercy through their unbleief (their - meaning Israel )"

Romans 11:31 - "Even so have these also now not believed (Israel), that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy" (key word here - mercy - this word reveals everything that is being said here)

Romans 11:32 - "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all"

Romans 11:33 - "O the depth of the riches both of wisdom and knowledge of God ! how unsearchable ( a mystery) are his judgments, and his ways past finding out"

Romans 11:34 - "For who hath known the mind of the Lord ? or who hath been his counseller ? "

Romans 11:35 - "Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again ? " (no one)

Romans 11:36 -"For of him and through him and to him are all things : to whom be glory for ever"

This is all based upon the "mercy" of God.

Our salvation was given to us without repentance. Our salvation is without works for our salvation. Our salvation is not based upon how one can loose salvation, when the salvation was given without repentance in the first place !

Work out your salvation with trembling and frear, if you want to see all the great rewards and blessing of God, an the abundance of his grace towards those who love him.

Remember we didn't love him first, He loved us first !

Romans 12:1 - " I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the "mercies" of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is you reasonable service"

This is our reasonable service for the "mercy" that God has shown us, even when we were dead in our sins. Without God and without hope. He sent his Son for a propitiation for our sins. < I John 4:9 & 10

Be blessed with the "mercy" of God --- MM

 

[shad]

If I sin his blood covers my sin because as a born again believer my heart is repentant and I don't continue in sin. But if I begin living a sinful life because I've began to neglect my relationship with Jesus, then my life will become no different than my old life of sin before salvation. I will end up having rejected his work on the cross and it's conditions.

This is you trusting in YOU = works salvation.

Without good works, there is no salvation. Jesus says "if you love me, keep my commandments." and faith without deeds is dead. There is no salvation if your faith is dead. It is that simple. You are making salvation more complicated than it actually is. Your doctrine is stumbling block to new and young believers.

 

[destiny]

AV.. is there anything through Jesus that sets you apart from the world besides the lip service of a doctrine? If so, please let me know what????

 

[jasoncran]

destiny i can see why you said that, but settle that via pm or i will lock.

 

[destiny]

destiny i can see why you said that, but settle that via pm or i will lock.

Considering AV and others consider obedience to Jesus an unnecessary work, I think it is a fair question that begs for an open response.

 

[jasoncran]

i dont see them saying that.honestly

if you have repented, you will honeslty want to do the will of the Lord. You confuse them saving that works without faith will get you heaven, when they are saying. Works with Faith will get you to heaven, as the later must have fruit in order for it to be real.

salvation is soo simple, why do people complicate this stuff.You are basing all oasas churches on one bad apple. That's like me saying all the non oasas are like the one i went too. This link will teach others that it
,www.wofnbc.com,it isnt legalistic at all.

i have been two osas chruches as a regular. the first was somewhat legalistic and via a prophetess the Lord showed me that the chruch was full of God loving people but had some doctrinal errors.ie men no long hair. and so on. they did have the no tobacco thing as well.

the last one was a balenced church similiar to what you say, but as i mention earlier when listen to the saints that have drifted away and sinned some seroius sins,ie stole, did time in jail, and drugs etc. They will say that the whole time they were backslidden and yet the Lord never left them. odd when they preached that if they were to die like that hell would be their home! If they knowingly sinned like that, and walked away knowingly how can their be any more remmitance of Sin.

 

[destiny]

Jason from what I have read they have been saying works are unnecessary and that there is nothing else we can do to be in right standing with Jesus, even obey him. I would love for that to be clarified and this is why I asked AV or anyone of the OSAS camp to please tell me how Jesus (changed) their lives. What is the evidence of a changed life? For me, when I was born again the old things were gone and I was a new creature. I don't want that old life anymore so I stay in Gods presence daily through relationship, it is a choice I willing make. Some of this could be semantics but not all of it is.
Like I said, I have witnessed the fruit of the OSAS doctrine at the local church my son went to for bible school, and it is a serious matter.
The fruit of Knowing Jesus is a changed life.. but we have to walk it out in relationship too. Relationship begets obedience.

 

[jasoncran]

i think its semantics. you have a bad expericience at one chuch. would you assume all christian are like those in that church everywhere?

that's like assuming that all people are alike.

the eternal security churches i have been to, preach holinees and emphazise the fruits must be there. evidence of the salvation. not the requirement but the evidence that change has occured.

i love my wife, if i do nothing but tell her and nothing else, will she believe if i dont also act like i do?.no
likewise, if i never tell her but act on it by giving her things yet i dont love her, will that mean i love her? no?

if i do both tell her and act and show i love then she will know that i love her.

salvation is like this. we confess repentance. we try to do what we can for the lord in witnessing and be faithful and so on but the Lord knows that we cant serve him like his son did. we are imperfect. he shows grace in that we are of two natures. that flesh and the renewed man. the former will rear up and the lord will correct us. till we die we will have that battle. if we could perfect ourselves and do it all why the cross?

 

[glorydaz]

destiny i can see why you said that, but settle that via pm or i will lock.

Considering AV and others consider obedience to Jesus an unnecessary work, I think it is a fair question that begs for an open response.

This is simply a misunderstanding of what's been said.
Obedience is a result of salvation, not a condition of salvation.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

These "good works" are a manifestation of the Holy Spirit's working through us.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

 

[glorydaz]

Jason from what I have read they have been saying works are unnecessary and that there is nothing else we can do to be in right standing with Jesus, even obey him. I would love for that to be clarified and this is why I asked AV or anyone of the OSAS camp to please tell me how Jesus (changed) their lives. What is the evidence of a changed life? For me, when I was born again the old things were gone and I was a new creature. I don't want that old life anymore so I stay in Gods presence daily through relationship, it is a choice I willing make. Some of this could be semantics but not all of it is.
Like I said, I have witnessed the fruit of the OSAS doctrine at the local church my son went to for bible school, and it is a serious matter.
The fruit of Knowing Jesus is a changed life.. but we have to walk it out in relationship too. Relationship begets obedience.

Indeed...so why assume we don't obey?
Obedience is not a work but an ordained fact...no more than our duty.
Obedience is not following a list of rules, but a relationship between a father and a child.
Is it work to obey, or is it love to obey?
Will we be disowned when we fail, or will we be chastened until we obey?

You want to know how Jesus changed my life?
He poured His love into my heart and my desire is to please Him in all things.

As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.

Do I still sin?
Not like I used to, but any lack of faith is coming short of His glory..."for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."

 

[AVBunyan]

destiny i can see why you said that, but settle that via pm or i will lock.

Considering AV and others consider obedience to Jesus an unnecessary work, I think it is a fair question that begs for an open response.

You just don't see the difference - A saint does good works as a result of his regeneration.

You do the opposite - you believe the sinner does good works in order to be saved.

Good works are important after salvation but the good works add nothing to one's position.

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[glorydaz]

destiny i can see why you said that, but settle that via pm or i will lock.

Considering AV and others consider obedience to Jesus an unnecessary work, I think it is a fair question that begs for an open response.

You just don't see the difference - A saint does good works as a result of his regeneration.

You do the opposite - you believe the sinner does good works in order to be saved.

Good works are important after salvation but the good works add nothing to one's position.

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Even worse, some claim their good works keep them saved and they can lose their salvation if they don't obey all of the commandments...or if they die in sin, or come short of the mark, or don't "finish the race". Did it matter if the children of Israel were quaking in fear or doubting while the death angel passed over their house? No, the angel saw the blood on the door post and passed them by. They applied the blood.....that was their salvation.

 

[Cornelius]

Php 2:12 So then, my beloved, even as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

 

[Cornelius]

Why was the blood on the doorposts ? Why not on the windows or better still : on the roof ?

No the blood must be on the doorposts because we go "in and out" through the doorpost. It symbolizes the walk of obedience that is a result of humbling ourselves to the Word. When we obey they Word in our walk, we have the blood of Christ on our doorpost. The blood does not work, if is not "walked through" .

No obedience = no salvation.

 

[Mysteryman]

Why was the blood on the doorposts ? Why not on the windows or better still : on the roof ?

No the blood must be on the doorposts because we go "in and out" through the doorpost. It symbolizes the walk of obedience that is a result of humbling ourselves to the Word. When we obey they Word in our walk, we have the blood of Christ on our doorpost. The blood does not work, if is not "walked through" .

No obedience = no salvation.

Hi C

Not obeying = no rewards !