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Losing Salvation after getting saved?

Kathi

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So you mean to say that all backsliding believers are on their way to heaven?

So do you also believe in the doctrine of Joseph Prince --- Sinning in the light?
Hi jonahamano.Are you a Christian?It does not indicate anything under your name.
 

jeff77

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So you mean to say that all backsliding believers are on their way to heaven?

So do you also believe in the doctrine of Joseph Prince --- Sinning in the light?
I don't know about all backsliding believer's. As long as someone still has a relationship with Christ and a repenting heart, then that would be a couple of things that indicate to me that they are still saved. Only God knows, I meant I think it's possible. I don't know who Joseph Prince is?
 

Javier

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As long as someone still has a relationship with Christ and a repenting heart, then that would be a couple of things that indicate to me that they are still saved.
:thumbsup

Part of the frustration of sharing with others about forgiven/justified people voluntarily forfeiting that forgiveness/justification through their own behavior is trying to explain the difference between the person who sins because he is weak in Christ and growing up into the grace of God and the person who sins because of indifference or contempt for the grace of God they have received.

Sinning doesn't categorically mean you are making a conscious decision to walk away from the forgiveness of God you have received in Christ. WHY you are sinning determines if you are making a conscious decision to walk away from the forgiveness/justification you have received in Christ.
 

jeff77

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:thumbsup

Part of the frustration of sharing with others about forgiven/justified people voluntarily forfeiting that forgiveness/justification through their own behavior is trying to explain the difference between the person who sins because he is weak in Christ and growing up into the grace of God and the person who sins because of indifference or contempt for the grace of God they have received.

Sinning doesn't categorically mean you are making a conscious decision to walk away from the forgiveness of God you have received in Christ. WHY you are sinning determines if you are making a conscious decision to walk away from the forgiveness/justification you have received in Christ.
Yeah, it's difficult to explain and it's hard to look at an example with very few details and determine whether or not they are saved. Of course we can't really know what is in a persons heart
 

Javier

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Power to save and protect!
Access huh? Lose the fact that Peter just said God uses His power to protect us and you err.
[...]
And while you're at it, explain the limits of "the power of God" that Him to lose any of His own.
The limit is your faith. Read the verse again... it is "through faith" we are protected by God (1 Peter 1:9 NAS).

4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:4-5 NAS)

Besides faith being what we are protected through, note the other truths about salvation we see in the passage:

1. The inheritance is imperishable, undefiled, and will not fade away, not the faith that secures it.
2. The inheritance is future.
3. The salvation we have now is actually a promise for the salvation that will be revealed at the end.


The bottom line of all this is you have to have faith, and have it to the very end to secure the hope which faith secures.

21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach - 23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard... (Colossians 1:21-23 NAS)

This plainly shows the burden of 'if' in salvation. But many have chosen to interpret this plain passage with vague and disputable passages, instead of interpreting the vague disputable passages with the plain passages. This is a very common thing that happens in the defense of various doctrines presently popular in the church today.


John 6:39 Now this is the will of the one who sent me: that everyone whom he has given me, I would not lose any of them, but raise them up on the last day.
Right. Christ does not lose any like a bumbling incompetent fool like Eli. They are free to walk away on their own.
 
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OzSpen

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I believe your question is off-topic, and will kindly refrain from responding.
The thread is titled, 'losing salvation after getting saved?' and this person asked:
  • 'How does someone know when they are saved?'
  • Your response: 'I believe your question is off-topic, and will kindly refrain from responding'.
I don't believe the question and statement are off topic at all. If it is possible to lose salvation after being saved, I find it valid to ask how anyone can know when and if they are saved - to know that they have lost it.

My basic answer to the question is: What do the Scriptures say?
  • 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved' (Acts 16:31).
  • Repentance is associated with this faith: 'Now he commands all people everywhere to repent' (Acts 17:30).
  • A desire to be discipled (Matt 28:18-20);
  • A changed life (2 Cor 5:17), and
  • Faith must be followed by good works (James 2:25).
But Hebrews 6:4-6 does provide information that indicates it is possible to commit apostasy:

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt (ESV).​

In Christ,
Oz
 

Allen Wynne

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The thread is titled, 'losing salvation after getting saved?' and this person asked:
  • 'How does someone know when they are saved?'
  • Your response: 'I believe your question is off-topic, and will kindly refrain from responding'.
I don't believe the question and statement are off topic at all. If it is possible to lose salvation after being saved, I find it valid to ask how anyone can know when and if they are saved - to know that they have lost it.

My basic answer to the question is: What do the Scriptures say?
  • 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved' (Acts 16:31).
  • Repentance is associated with this faith: 'Now he commands all people everywhere to repent' (Acts 17:30).
  • A desire to be discipled (Matt 28:18-20);
  • A changed life (2 Cor 5:17), and
  • Faith must be followed by good works (James 2:25).
But Hebrews 6:4-6 does provide information that indicates it is possible to commit apostasy:

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt (ESV).​

In Christ,
Oz
This Hebrews statement is quite interesting.
If I'm saved, and then give up Jesus, then it's impossible for me to turn back to Jesus again and get resaved.
So once a person falls away in this manner, they are through, forever.
It just doesn't quite ring true to me.
Can you explain it better?
 

Javier

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A Christian life should be a changed life.He is a new creation 2 Corinthians 5:17.Those who belong to Christ remain with Christ.Those who turn away from their faith never had it to begin with 2 Timothy 2:11-13.
"...If we deny Him, He also will deny us; 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself...." (vs. 12,13)

How does this defend the argument that this person was never saved to begin with? It's obvious that 'denying him' and 'being faithless' have to be two different things, or else they contradict each other. If we define 'deny him' and 'faithless' as being exactly the same thing that would mean he both denies us and remains faithful to us at the same time when we are faithless.

I've noticed that what many people have a hard time distinguishing between is the lack of faith in daily living and a lack of faith in salvation itself. The former is forgivable and covered by the blood of Christ. The latter, ultimately, is not. Thus God 'denying' the person who first denies his relationship with him. They do the leaving, not God.
 

Edward

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I guess this begs the question, is one saved at the moment they say the sinners prayer, or after they begin walking in faith, walking of course implying action, obedience and so forth...?
 

Javier

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[...] Although he knows where it is, he tells the stranger that he does not know where the clinic is. The moment after he completes his answer a grand piano falls upon him from a tall building, and his life is ended. He dies not having time to repent, having just then made the conscious choice to tell a lie. Will the pastor spend eternity with Christ, or not?
Depends on what chord was sounded when the piano hit the ground.

Actually it depends on WHY the pastor is telling the lie. If it signifies a decision that he is not concerned about the grace of God's forgiveness anymore in his life (which would be kind of inconsistent with the story) and has turned back to his former ways in a trampling of the grace he received then he no longer belongs to God and will not be spared on the Day of Judgment. If he has rejected the grace of God's forgiveness offered in the blood of Christ, what sacrifice remains to speak on his behalf at the Judgment?

If this pastor is, like the rest of us, failing in a moment of fleshly weakness, Christ has got him covered.
 

Javier

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I guess this begs the question, is one saved at the moment they say the sinners prayer, or after they begin walking in faith, walking of course implying action, obedience and so forth...?
Personally, I remember the Holy Spirit coming into me and being changed as soon as I finished asking Christ to save me and forgive my sins. I'm not suggesting that was the baptism of the Holy Spirit, but rather Christ coming into my body by the Holy Spirit in salvation putting his seal of ownership on me.
 

Allen Wynne

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This entire thread is a seesaw.
Nobody goes anywhere with it other than tell the other person they are wrong.
If I was an outsider looking in, I would say that eternal life through Jesus Christ is not a free gift.
There are stipulations.
Once a person agrees he wants eternal life, it is there for the taking, but only if they follow the rules.
Don't follow the rules?
Then you don't get it.

It's like "here's $100.00. keep it. but if you buy cigarettes and alcohol with it, I'll take it all back and never give you anything again".
Not a free gift at all, is it?

I guess eternal life is not a free gift.
 

Gary

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If I was an outsider looking in, I would say that eternal life through Jesus Christ is not a free gift.
There are stipulations.
Once a person agrees he wants eternal life, it is there for the taking, but only if they follow the rules.
Don't follow the rules?
Then you don't get it.
You hit the nail square on the head.


2 Timothy 2
5 And also if anyone competes in athletics, he is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules.



.
 

Gregg

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I asked you a simple question. "How does someone know when they are saved?"

If you don't know just say so.
.
For what reason does a person turn towards God with a repentant heart, believing in Christ crucified and resurrected? It is for forgiveness of sin and eternal life in Christ? When you turn towards God believing in Christ crucified and resurrected, then at that moment you are saved. And you should know that your salvation has began at that very moment because that is the reason for which you believed in God. And His Spirit bears witness of these things so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Several things take place immediately when you are saved:

Christ's blood covers you,
you are forgiven of all your sins,
Christ's righteousness is accounted to you,
Atonement to the Father is now fulfilled in you,
you are made a new creation, imperishable,
God seals you with His Spirit Who now indwells you,
your flesh is circumcised from the rest of your being,
you are grafted into the body of Christ,
you are given spiritual gifts,
you are granted an inheritance with Christ,
you are seated with Christ in heaven,
you have been made a citizen of the kingdom of heaven.

- - -

A Christian no longer belongs to the world, but to God because Jesus Christ has purchased and saved that person; that with His own flesh and blood [the intent and will of God before the foundation of the world]. Christ's purchase isn't temporary, but the good work of Salvation that He began is certain to be accomplished by Him. God will keep him, and watch over him, and fulfill His word through the Day of Christ.
 

Gary

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The thread is titled, 'losing salvation after getting saved?' and this person asked:
  • 'How does someone know when they are saved?'
  • Your response: 'I believe your question is off-topic, and will kindly refrain from responding'.
I don't believe the question and statement are off topic at all. If it is possible to lose salvation after being saved, I find it valid to ask how anyone can know when and if they are saved - to know that they have lost it.

My basic answer to the question is: What do the Scriptures say?
  • 'Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved' (Acts 16:31).
  • Repentance is associated with this faith: 'Now he commands all people everywhere to repent' (Acts 17:30).
  • A desire to be discipled (Matt 28:18-20);
  • A changed life (2 Cor 5:17), and
  • Faith must be followed by good works (James 2:25).
But Hebrews 6:4-6 does provide information that indicates it is possible to commit apostasy:

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt (ESV).​

In Christ,
Oz
Thanks.

.
 

Butch5

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I guess this begs the question, is one saved at the moment they say the sinners prayer, or after they begin walking in faith, walking of course implying action, obedience and so forth...?
Or is salvation the end of one's faith?

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials,
7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,
8 whom having not seen1 you love2. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
9 receiving the end of your faith-- the salvation of your souls. (1Pe 1:3-9 NKJ)

Peter says that salvation is the end of one's faith. For some reason modern Christians seem to think it's the beginning of one's faith.
 

Butch5

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This entire thread is a seesaw.
Nobody goes anywhere with it other than tell the other person they are wrong.
If I was an outsider looking in, I would say that eternal life through Jesus Christ is not a free gift.
There are stipulations.
Once a person agrees he wants eternal life, it is there for the taking, but only if they follow the rules.
Don't follow the rules?
Then you don't get it.

It's like "here's $100.00. keep it. but if you buy cigarettes and alcohol with it, I'll take it all back and never give you anything again".
Not a free gift at all, is it?

I guess eternal life is not a free gift.
How does conditions negate favor?
 

Gary

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For what reason does a person turn towards God with a repentant heart, believing in Christ crucified and resurrected? It is for forgiveness of sin and eternal life in Christ? When you turn towards God believing in Christ crucified and resurrected, then at that moment you are saved. And you should know that your salvation has began at that very moment because that is the reason for which you believed in God.

How do you reconcile your statement here and your belief that salvation can't lost, with this passage here?

Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

.
 

Gregg

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Great question but the difference between your question and my question is - the pastor which I'm talking about is committing repeated sin. He knows it's wrong, he knows he's wrong but he is involved in it, he wants to come out of it but he wants to give some time for himself but it was too late for him and this is my case. In your case it's not repeated sin, it's out of conscious. the decision in your case is taken in haste but whereas my party is continually in that sin and though he had intention to repent but he couldn't because he was in the lust and he thought there was still way ahead to get back to God.

Also if you could answer me about what does this scripture mean to you

Philippians 2:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

And also this

1 Corinthians 9:26-27 King James Version (KJV)
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under
my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally
Learnt a new doctrine from this forum 'BACKSLIDERS ARE ON THEIR WAY TO HEAVEN' ...........
To "work out your own salvation" In Php 2:12 does not imply that any action on your part either sustains or guarantees the continuation of your salvation.

1Cor 9:26-27 regards Paul's testimony being rejected by those to whom he preaches, not Paul being rejected by God.
 

Gregg

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How do you reconcile your statement here and your belief that salvation can't lost, with this passage here?

Matthew 7
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’
23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

.
Mat 7:21-23 Many people call Him Lord, but do not believe in Him. The will of the Father is not to know about the Person of Jesus, but to believe in Him. "And this is the will of the Father sending Me, that of all that He has given Me, I shall not lose any of it, but shall raise it up in the last day." (John 6:39).
 

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