Losing Salvation after getting saved?

[Gregg]

Does one obtain salvation simply by believing in God?
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I am not sure what you are asking. Can you be more specific?

 

[Gary]

I am not sure what you are asking. Can you be more specific?

How does someone know when they are saved?
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[Gary]

Many Scriptures have already been posted stating the permanent nature of our salvation.

I want to see the scripture that states a christian cannot reject the gift of eternal life. Could you please post it?
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[Rollo Tamasi]

I want to see the scripture that states a christian cannot reject the gift of eternal life. Could you please post it?
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I've already asked just the opposite.
Where is Scripture showing someone who is saved walked away and never came back and lost their salvation?
Nobody ever answered it, including you.

 

[Gary]

I've already asked just the opposite.
Where is Scripture showing someone who is saved walked away and never came back and lost their salvation?
Nobody ever answered it, including you.

You reject everything that's posted. It's all there, you just don't want to see it.
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[Gregg]

I want to see the scripture that states a christian cannot reject the gift of eternal life. Could you please post it?
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"And I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish to the age, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand." (John 10:28).

What about eternal life is not eternal? Eternal life is just that - it has no end. Jesus said that we will never perish. He did not qualify that statement, but with the word "never." The Christian will never perish; not for any reason because Christ began, maintains, and will complete our salvation.

 

[Gary]

"And I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish to the age, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand." (John 10:28).

What about eternal life is not eternal? Eternal life is just that - it has no end. Jesus said that we will never perish. He did not qualify that statement, but with the word "never."

The "key" to that verse is, "no one is able to pluck them from My hand". It has nothing to do with a christian not being able to reject salvation. Do you have a verse that says that?
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[jeff77]

But even our repenting is not an action that guarantees Salvation. A Christian repenting is an action possible because of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and our new nature.

Ok, I understand that. I noticed in another post you mentioned salvation by works for the non-OSAS. I don't see how any Christian that has even a basic understanding of the Bible could believe that because it is impossible.

 

[jeff77]

Does one obtain salvation simply by believing in God?
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Good point Gary. I don't think so. I used to think that all that was required was acknowledging Gods existence. I now believe that everyone will get a chance to know that Jesus is the one true God and then they will have to decide whether to follow Him or not.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Rev 3:12 is speaking of God's kingdom in its current state.

I see that it is being spoken in the current state and time of the kingdom.

Jesus, the Son of God, is currently building His Father's house. At the moment we are saved we become a member of Christ's body; we become a pillar in the Temple of God.

What it says is overcomers will be made pillars in the Temple of God. Revelation warns the people of God to be an overcomer to the very end. The warning is to the people of God to stay true to the end and be an overcomer that will inherit the kingdom and never be put out of it again.

This sealing by the Holy Spirit is unconditional.

This simply is not true. Faith is what solicits the Holy Spirit of promise. The condition for receiving the Holy Spirit is placing your trust in Christ's blood for the forgiveness of sin through the gift and power of faith that God gives to do that trusting.

...Paul expressed His confidence that God would complete the work that He began in the Philippians - in the same way that God began their salvation and He will complete it. In Php 1:6...

To think that he is categorically speaking of every single person who received Christ at Phillipi because justification/salvation has no bearing whatsoever on the person who receives that justification/salvation contradicts everything else Paul said about the necessity to continue in our trust in the hope to the very end to realize the hope we have been promised.

 

[Gregg]

The "key" to that verse is, "no one is able to pluck them from My hand". It has nothing to do with a christian not being able to reject salvation. Do you have a verse that says that?
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The key that you speak of has two sides - the one you mentioned which refers to a third party not being able to pluck out of Christs hand. The other side of your key refers to the Christian who will never perish. "They shall never perish."

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That faith is a gift of God, irrevocable. We have a High priest who is able to maintain both our faith and our salvation.

Why does the Bible warn us to continue to trust to the very end in order to remain reconciled to God? This more than just suggests that it is possible to NOT continue in trust to the very end, and as a result, lose that which trust in God secures. Explain these plain warnings.

I do see what you are getting at. You who believe that salvation and eternal life can be lost or given up once obtained, have reverted to dependence upon the Law and your own works for your salvation.

I understand why the argument is understood as a 'works' argument. I explained to allen how somewhere along the line even the 'work' of believing got moved over to the side of damnable works in Paul's grace/law teaching--a teaching that contrasts the work of believing with the works of the law as to what can and cannot justify a person, not equates them.

The argument is not for works of the law for justification. The argument is that trust in Christ is the condition--the 'work', as Jesus puts it--that one must 'do' to be justified, as opposed to doing righteous work to be justified. And the obligatory and expected outcome of having your sins forgiven apart from the merit of righteous works is....wait for it...righteous works! Not because righteous works justify, but because that is what faith in Christ looks like--they are the obligatory and expected outcome of trusting in the forgiveness of God like getting wet is the obligatory and expected outcome of going swimming.

 

[Gary]

The key that you speak of has two sides - the one you mentioned which refers to a third party not being able to pluck out of Christs hand. The other side of your key refers to the Christian who will never perish. "They shall never perish."

All I want to see is the verse or verses that back your claim. The verse you posted from John does not do that.

An unsaved man can reject God and His will regarding faith in Jesus Christ; but, a Christian can reject neither.

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[Jethro Bodine]

Peter said the person who's works are lacking is the person who has lost sight of the forgiveness he has received. We can measure whether or not we have appreciation and gratitude, not contempt or indifference for the forgiveness of God we have received by our works. Those who maintain trust and confidence and appreciation in the forgiveness of God overcome and are saved. Those who do not maintain trust and confidence and appreciation in the forgiveness of God they have received (think the 'unmerciful servant') does not overcome and he forfeits the forgiveness he has received.

This is no way now makes the salvation secured by justification the damnable works gospel Paul warns us about. It simply means righteous work is the expected and obligatory outcome of the faith that justifies all by itself apart from the merit of work.

 

[Gregg]

I see that it is being spoken in the current state and time of the kingdom.


What it says is overcomers will be made pillars in the Temple of God. Revelation warns the people of God to be an overcomer to the very end. The warning is not to those who haven't begun the journey of overcoming, but to the people of God to stay true to the end and be an overcomer that will inherit the kingdom and never be put out of it again.


This simply is not true. Faith is what solicits the Holy Spirit of promise. The condition for receiving the Holy Spirit is placing your trust in Christ's blood for the forgiveness of sin through the gift and power of faith that God gives to do that trusting.


To think that he is categorically speaking of every single person who received Christ at Phillipi because justification/salvation has no bearing whatsoever on the person who receives that justification/salvation contradicts everything else Paul said about the necessity to continue in our trust in the hope to the very end to realize the hope we have been promised.

Faith is a gift, but it in and of itself has no power. Power rests with God. We receive the Holy Spirit upon being placed in Christ. The Father determined this plan of action before the foundation of the world, just as He then determined that our redemption would be through the blood of His Son Jesus Christ. I am referring to Ephesians chapter 1.

If you place faith in you own faith, what will your faith be tomorrow? But God is the same yesterday. today, and forever. My faith rests upon His completed work in Christ. By His grace through His gift of faith I have been placed in Christ for eternity.

- - -

Regarding another one of your posts, those who are overcome in Rev 13:7 are overcome in the flesh only. The bodies of the saints may die, but their position of having eternal life in Christ is not changed.

 

[Gregg]

All I want to see is the verse or verses that back your claim. The verse you posted from John does not do that.

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I can not provide a single verse that says "a Christian can reject neither." I base that statement on the fact that a Christian can not lose his salvation, therefore he can not reject God or 'undo' his faith in Christ so as to lose his salvation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Faith is a gift, but it in and of itself has no power. Power rests with God.

Faith is how we access the power of the gospel to save. It most certainly is a required requisite for having and retaining the promise and hope of the kingdom to come. Lose that faith and you lose the power of God to save:

"..you, 5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. " (1 Peter 1:5 NAS)

Lose the faith through which you are protected by the power of God for salvation and you lose that protection.

My faith rests upon His completed work in Christ. By His grace through His gift of faith I have been placed in Christ for eternity.

Right.

But if you fall from that faith--that trust in the blood of Christ--you no longer have the promise of life in an eternal and never-ending kingdom that faith secures. What OSAS has to prove is that you can not stop having trust in the blood of Christ once you do have trust in the blood of Christ. Paul warns us to not stop trusting in the promise of the coming kingdom, because if we do we will lose our reconciliation to God and the promise of that coming kingdom.

Is Paul merely making a theoretical argument--that it actually isn't possible that once you trust in Christ for the forgiveness of sins that you can then stop doing that? As I pointed out, in Jesus' parables his warnings about unfaithful servants were given to faithful servants, warning them to be ready and remain ready for the Master's appearance. Is that, too, just making a purely theoretical argument, one that we really don't have to heed because it really can't happen?

Regarding another one of your posts, those who are overcome in Rev 13:7 are overcome in the flesh only. The bodies of the saints may die, but their position of having eternal life in Christ is not changed.

Regardless of what not overcoming actually means, it plainly says that it is the overcomers who will be made pillars in the Temple of God, not any and all believers whether they overcome or not.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Someone posting here has many demands for answers

You reject everything that's posted. It's all there, you just don't want to see it.
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I disagree.
I think you just don't know how to answer it.
Your whole argument on this thread is being blotted out of the book of life, which holds no water.
The rest of your posts are demands of others to show answers to everything else.
I posted plenty defending OSAS and you have had nothing to say against my posts.
I think you're all smoke, no action.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Someone posting here has many demands for answers

I disagree.
I think you just don't know how to answer it.
Your whole argument on this thread is being blotted out of the book of life, which holds no water.
The rest of your posts are demands of others to show answers to everything else.
I posted plenty defending OSAS and you have had nothing to say against my posts.
I think you're all smoke, no action.

Allen, we showed you the Bible speaks of these people who forfeit the forgiveness they have received. If you claim that since no specific names are named then these groups of people are fictitious. I don't know how one can honestly say that Jesus was speaking of a group of people that in reality do not, and can not, exist.

 

[Gary]

Someone posting here has many demands for answers

I disagree.
I think you just don't know how to answer it.
Your whole argument on this thread is being blotted out of the book of life, which holds no water.
The rest of your posts are demands of others to show answers to everything else.
I posted plenty defending OSAS and you have had nothing to say against my posts.
I think you're all smoke, no action.

That's because I've been down this road with you in the past and I saw no reason to go there again.