So you believe in Universal Salvation?
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Losing Salvation after getting saved?
- Thread starter jonahmano
- Start date
So you believe in Universal Salvation?
Danus
Member
These things are indicative of salvation. Is what is being said. An option would be the idea that salvation is a decision we make to be saved or not to be saved. I'm not saying that. In the widest sense, ion the final analysis, some are saved, some are not. We can rightly say that the unsaved are unsaved by their own will, but we can not say that the saved are saved by their own will, for to be saved by one own will, would be a works based idea of salvation. So. I'm not leaving room for salvation as an option for the saved.
So, theologically, I'm saying the saved are saved by God and God alone, chosen by God and God alone from the begging to be saved. No option there.
This thread, the OP, does not address that. It simply ask if you can loose your salvation. What it implies is that a person chooses to be saved and then later chooses not to be saved. So, some might say a person chooses to be saved and then they can't loose that. What I'm saying goes even deeper than that. You can't even choose to be saved.
Both the saved and the unsaved are able to make choices freely, but choosing, or accepting salvation is not something anyone can choose freely. The only reason a saved person can say they accept Christ is because they have been given to Christ by the father, and they pray, they meditate and so forth on the word of God. Their only effort is living the Christian life, not salvation.
You'll notice some are bringing up OSAS. Most likely they are thinking that that people who believe you can't loose your salvation also believe you have to choose to be saved or not. That's the middle of the two views. Often called semi pelagianism. very popular among some protestant view.
Works based salvation says that we may be saved we may not be saved and we can't know. That's the RCC view essentially. It's more full pelagianism. It says we are capable of being righteous and if we are then we MIGHT be saved.
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Deborah13
Member
If you have heard them say this, WHO are they that are saying this?
I know three and none of them say this, not at ALL.
Do you think the our God is weak like a human parent? We can lose our children to the world and not be able to bring them back. God is not like a human parent, He does not lose His children.
He will convict, He will bring people and situations into our lives. He uses the rod and the staff and He is able to keep His children.
If a loving human parent was able to do what God can do would they not turn their children back to righteousness, in Christ?
Just like when we get saved to start with He convinces us of sin and the righteousness of Christ and when we blow it, remember we already have the indwelling of the Spirit, He convinces us of our wrong stinkin' thinkin' and habits and if it takes the rod or the staff to do that, He will.
Just look in the OT, when Israel went into idolatry, God put them into captivity to a pagan nation until they were ready to repent. He didn't just keep letting them go their own way, He did not spare the rod, and He did not leave them there to rot forever.
Danus
Member
It's a good thing God does choose who will be saved; that He starts and completes a good work in those he saves. Otherwise no one would be saved.
Romans 8: 28-30
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Romans 8: 28-30
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Ok, so let's list the salvation believing.
And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight-- 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23
JLB
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I think he's referring too.....since God chooses we don't have free will.
Some believers will not be presented as holy,blameless and above reproach. Some will be in shame.
1 John 2:28 (NASB95)
28 Now, little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming.
2 Corinthians 5:10 (NASB95)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.
Danus
Member
Not to be saved.
When it comes to salvation, our free will is worthless to be saved for the purpose of being saved. We do have free will. we can make decisions freely, but salvation is not a decision we make freely "theologically".
Man's will natural will is not towards God. If we are going to say man has free will, and he does, then we must agree that in order that mans will be free then he (man) MUST choose what he desires. He must. otherwise it's not free. But the bible tells us that man does not choose God; does not desire God. Therefore, his desire must be changed and in order that it is changed God must choose first before anyone can possibly say they choose Him freely.
We freely reject God, but we don't freely choose God without God choosing us. Does your choice for God change what God did on the cross? Does your choice add to what was done on the cross? or does it take away from what Jesus did for you? No. Neither.
What God did on the cross is for those whom He chose, who will be saved, not for those who are not saved.
Here are the words HIS SERVANTS will here who did not continue in the confidence but shrunk back and whose deeds were unholy.
Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.' 44Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?' 45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Matthew 25:41-46
Danus
Member
I agree. This is one of the most complex studies in the Bible too. You said it well.
Your absolutely correct. It is one of the most agonizing issues. It can be painful, but in it's fullness it is beautiful.
Good verses and so many doctrines in such few words!
I like, "according to His purpose." I used to think it was his Sovereign purpose of election or predestination of men for salvation. Now I know I was wrong.
His Purpose.....Heb 9:2 NASB~~For there was a tabernacle prepared, the outer one, in which were the lampstand and the table and the sacred bread; this is called the holy place.
The Shewbread in the temple and "His Purpose" are the same thing.
proqesis 4286 fem ---- acc s noun--- purpose 14
So people have been called according to His Shewbread. Rom 8:28 His Sovereign election was His Purpose(Christ) and it is the shewbread in the temple.....the bread of life.
John 6:35~~Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.
So God Chooses men according to what they do with His Shewbread. The "choosing" is always in the middle voice when it comes to God Choosing men unto salvation. And it is always about what the person has done with His Purpose or shewbread.
Danus
Member
See, I'm not going to argue that, because it gives the glory to God where it belongs, and not to man.I do not believe it is complex. It is frustrated by false teachings and the world. The only ones who wants salvation of men to be complex is Satan and the pride and arrogance of man. The simplicity of it has been hidden.I agree. This is one of the most complex studies in the Bible too. You said it well.
Whats missed here is common Grace, all men can come to God because of what Christ did. Christ also died for the sins of the unbeliever. We do not go to hell because of our sins, we go because we have never believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.
He died for ALL men, the temple curtain is torn and ALL men may approach. The Cross works for ALL men, He did not just die for the people who will be saved.
We are all still totally depraved and would not come to God on our own, But He did something about that for ALL men......the cross.
That's true, I honestly believe that Satan has also planted the seed of believing OSAS is false the same way he planted the seed of homosexuality. We need to pray for these people.
