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Material Blessings

jasoncran

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in job it says this The lord giveth and taketh away, but blessed be the name of the lord.

if the apostles were to have things, like multiple jets like some do( paula white, and others) why not?
i think that the lord did bless them but we arent of the this world.

while we should care for the lost and affect the world as it should be wanting to be like the Lord. the opposite is the truth, sadly.

we are mainly to serve, not get things in the name of the Lord. the son himself said that the pigeons have homes and he has nowhere to lay his head while he was on the earth.
that should tell you that we arent to be focused on things nor always having nice things.
 
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I may have told this story before, so if I have, please feel free to ignore me, LOL. But in January 2009, I lost my job unexpectedly. But I knew in my heart that God was not going to let my life fall apart. I BELIEVED in His provision and had FAITH that my God would not let my life just crumble. I decided to stay happy, not get depressed and believe God. All I had to live on was my tax return. One night, I felt God saying, "Sow a $250 seed to your church." I had little money left, but I obeyed God, because I knew I had heard from the Holy Spirit. When I sowed the seed, I didn't sow it for a job. I actually prayed to God as I wrote the check that my friend Bernard would get saved. Now you must understand that skeptic doesn't even BEGIN to describe him. Hyper-intellectual, into evolution and believed in Buddhist philosophy etc. In fact, after the first time I took him to church, he said, "If you'd told me a year ago that I would go into a church, I would have kicked your a*s!"

Well, within a month I had a job. A GOOD job. I pay next to nothing for excellent health benefits ($110/mo., per MONTH...that is almost unheard of in my past experience) and I get a pretty good salary too. When I interviewed for the job, I had to go through test after test after test and interview after interview after interview. I know I would NEVER have passed those tests on my own. Yet it was effortless!. It was God's favor operating in my life. 3 months later, my friend got saved! :amen

You have got to show God you believe His Word, period. You must live w/o fear, no matter how bad things get. Let God be true and every man a liar. Believing that the bible is true and have FAITH in His Word are two different things. When I was jobless for two months, I stood on the scripture David wrote "I was young and now am old, yet I have never seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread." I put my faith in that, and God did "exceeding, abundantly above all I could ask or think!"

Now God is no respecter of persons. But he IS a respecter of faith. Later, when I am not so tired, I will try to explain what I feel is the difference between intellectual understanding / belief and and actual biblical FAITH.
 
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jasoncran said:
in job it says this The lord giveth and taketh away, but blessed be the name of the lord.

if the apostles were to have things, like multiple jets like some do( paula white, and others) why not?
i think that the lord did bless them but we arent of the this world.

while we should care for the lost and affect the world as it should be wanting to be like the Lord. the opposite is the truth, sadly.

we are mainly to serve, not get things in the name of the Lord. the son himself said that the pigeons have homes and he has nowhere to lay his head while he was on the earth.
that should tell you that we arent to be focused on things nor always having nice things.
Am I just being paranoid, or do I have to say AGAIN, that I never ask God for THINGS? NEVER! I seek first the kingdom. I seek God's Face. I sing praises to His name and worship Him. I meditate on the Word. He just happens to bless me A LOT. And as I said, he is no respector of persons, the only difference between me and someone who is not getting blessed much (spiritually or materially) is that I have FAITH in the promises of God. And He honors it.
 

Mike

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Faithy, I know this guy named Paul. He had this crazy saying about "being thankful in all circumstances, when he had much and when he had little" You might know him too.

My guess is that you wouldn't disagree that a very poor person who has nothing but unshakable faith is still blessed. So who's more blessed, you or her? Maybe you say you're both blessed. What's the common denominator in that scenario? Faith! If you're both blessed at opposite ends of the line of wealth, than what's holding you together?

Lastly, I'll ask this: is it a better gift of faith to know it wouldn't kill you not to have a car, or to actually get one? Personally, if God refined me even a little by having to live without a car, and my faith came out at least as strong, I would consider that gift over the other.

I'm going to be in and out of this thread sooner than I was in the "FaithTransforms Loves Joel Osteen" thread we drove into the ground, but I couldn't ignore your shameless spin-off of my thread I started on your hero, Joeal Osteen. Since this is a spin-off from my thread, whatever residuals Joel doesn't get from you, I want 25%. That's assuming Osteen takes 50% of your money even though you aren't paid a dime for being the President of is fan club.

You say you don't love Osteen, buuuut, I knoooow you doooo! :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents the money just adds up when you get near this guy, huh? :lol
 

jasoncran

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intellectual faith,really,

i'm insulted.

i dont claimt that i dont have doubts, but have you recieved words that person would die simply cause asked the lord to save them, or hear that the lord would protect fellow soldiers from the enemy or death, and that same day an accident has occured and no one seriously hurt!

or dream that you would be in a house in mar 07 and it comes to pass.

my souls salvation and growth is better then things. i agree with mcjjb. tis better to be poor and have christs nature then have wealth all the time.
 
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jasoncran said:
intellectual faith,really,

i'm insulted.

i dont claimt that i dont have doubts, but have you recieved words that person would die simply cause asked the lord to save them, or hear that the lord would protect fellow soldiers from the enemy or death, and that same day an accident has occured and no one seriously hurt!

or dream that you would be in a house in mar 07 and it comes to pass.

my souls salvation and growth is better then things. i agree with mcjjb. tis better to be poor and have christs nature then have wealth all the time.
Jason, I was not referring to YOU having intellectual faith or mental assent as John Wesley called it. I do not know your heart. I'm just saying there is a certain faith that transcends simple belief. I will try to explain later. But please know, I was in no way trying to insult you. I would never do that. And if I've done it without realizing it, I repent to you right now and ask you to forgive me. You're one of my favorite people on this site (I like others too of course), but I just happen to especially really like you. And I would never want to offend you. Never.
 
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And btw jason, I have been praying for you every morning and every night, ever since you asked me to. I really do care for you a great deal.
 

jasoncran

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ok all is forgiven.

i have learned that the best time in my life as in growth were in trials, when i got saved in 1996, i choose to be close to the lord, i read 5 or 6 verses a day and prayed, i spent hrs in the bible. i worked low end jobs and was repaying debtors that i borrowed from and staying with my mom and dad, my dad kicked me out one day for nothing, the lord dealt with him.

when i got blessed and prayers answered i felt the lord telling me, now son dont forget me. i wish i listened to that, i grew more dependent on the things then on the lord. it's hard to come back. all these verse you hear me bring up is by me reading and learning what the Lord has taugh and corrected me on.

its hard to get back into that fiery days, laying of hands and others recieving the holy spirit and giving words to others and sometimes seeing it come to pass. man the stories i could tell you of what the sinners called me and other guy in the national guard when we talked, the "bible wars!" they thought we were yelling at each other, no we were teaching each other. we just got excited.

i miss those days.
 
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jasoncran said:
ok all is forgiven.
Thank you!!! I was trying to go to sleep but couldn't because I had to keep coming back to the computer to make sure you understood how much I care about you.

I have stuff to say about the other stuff you said on this post too. About it being hard to get back to the fiery days, etc. (I can totally relate, but I'm starting to make good progress in this area and I'll share it with you how I'm getting it back.) Not that you're not in the process of getting it back, but iron sharpens iron, that's why we share with one another. But it will have to be tomorrow because I can finally sleep now knowing that you have forgiven me, and that's exactly what I'm going to do!
 

Mike

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That's okay, Faithy. Now go to sleep and don't bother putting my mind to rest. sniff :crying sniff.

You know I was going overboard funning you with all the Osteen refs, well...98% funnin'.

But, I'd like to hear your response to my scenario I put to you.
 

Mike

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That's okay, Faithy. Now go to sleep and don't bother putting my mind to rest. sniff :crying sniff.

You know I was going overboard funning you with all the Osteen refs, well...98% funnin'.

But, I'd like to hear your response to my scenario I put to you.
 

archangel_300

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Last year I got a $450 traffic ticket over a very petty issue. I was able to take traffic school so the point wouldn't go on record.

BUT THEN.....

A few months later the city said they would reverse my traffic ticket and refund me the money + the traffic school cost + interest!!

Was that the prosperity gospel in action?

BUT THEN....

A couple of weeks after I got the notice that the city was going to reverse my traffic ticket, I got another traffic ticket over something very very petty. This time around the letter states I cannot take traffic school.

AND THEN....

My car needed to be fixed...
the dealership tried to pull a fast one on me... (luckily I didn't fall for it)

I got into a minor accident in a parking lot...

Seeing that my faith in God never waivers, what did I do wrong this time around?
 

jasoncran

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mjjcb said:
That's okay, Faithy. Now go to sleep and don't bother putting my mind to rest. sniff :crying sniff.

You know I was going overboard funning you with all the Osteen refs, well...98% funnin'.

But, I'd like to hear your response to my scenario I put to you.
lol.
 
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jasoncran said:
mjjcb said:
That's okay, Faithy. Now go to sleep and don't bother putting my mind to rest. sniff :crying sniff.

You know I was going overboard funning you with all the Osteen refs, well...98% funnin'.

But, I'd like to hear your response to my scenario I put to you.
lol.

Hey!!!!!!!! I was serious!!!!! I wish there was a smiley where I could stick my tongue out at you!!!! :tongue
 

Mike

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FaithTransforms???

mjjcb said:
Faithy, I know this guy named Paul. He had this crazy saying about "being thankful in all circumstances, when he had much and when he had little" You might know him too.

My guess is that you wouldn't disagree that a very poor person who has nothing but unshakable faith is still blessed. So who's more blessed, you or her? Maybe you say you're both blessed. What's the common denominator in that scenario? Faith! If you're both blessed at opposite ends of the line of wealth, than what's holding you together?

Lastly, I'll ask this: is it a better gift of faith to know it wouldn't kill you not to have a car, or to actually get one? Personally, if God refined me even a little by having to live without a car, and my faith came out at least as strong, I would consider that gift over the other.


I'm going to be in and out of this thread sooner than I was in the "FaithTransforms Loves Joel Osteen" thread we drove into the ground, but I couldn't ignore your shameless spin-off of my thread I started on your hero, Joeal Osteen. Since this is a spin-off from my thread, whatever residuals Joel doesn't get from you, I want 25%. That's assuming Osteen takes 50% of your money even though you aren't paid a dime for being the President of is fan club.

You say you don't love Osteen, buuuut, I knoooow you doooo! :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents the money just adds up when you get near this guy, huh? :lol
Were you planning on replying to this???
 
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mjjcb said:
Faithy, I know this guy named Paul. He had this crazy saying about "being thankful in all circumstances, when he had much and when he had little" You might know him too.

My guess is that you wouldn't disagree that a very poor person who has nothing but unshakable faith is still blessed. So who's more blessed, you or her? Maybe you say you're both blessed. What's the common denominator in that scenario? Faith! If you're both blessed at opposite ends of the line of wealth, than what's holding you together?

Lastly, I'll ask this: is it a better gift of faith to know it wouldn't kill you not to have a car, or to actually get one? Personally, if God refined me even a little by having to live without a car, and my faith came out at least as strong, I would consider that gift over the other.

I'm going to be in and out of this thread sooner than I was in the "FaithTransforms Loves Joel Osteen" thread we drove into the ground, but I couldn't ignore your shameless spin-off of my thread I started on your hero, Joeal Osteen. Since this is a spin-off from my thread, whatever residuals Joel doesn't get from you, I want 25%. That's assuming Osteen takes 50% of your money even though you aren't paid a dime for being the President of is fan club.

You say you don't love Osteen, buuuut, I knoooow you doooo! :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents the money just adds up when you get near this guy, huh? :lol

Ha ha ha :lol Obviously it is better to have nothing at all and to have faith in Christ than to have any amount of material blessing. If I had to live without a car, I WOULD be out on the streets because we have no public transporation where I live. I would have to take my beloved pets (2 dogs, 3 cats and a parrot) to the pound which would rip my soul in two and then try to figure out a way to get by. Would I lose my faith, no. As my favorite preacher Kenneth Copeland would say, it's the hard times when you BETTER NOT let go of your faith or the devil is gonna stomp you down from one end to the other. I would seek God's Face with all that is within me and I would put FAITH in His promises. And I know when I did, he would supernaturally provide for me. I would have a home, I would get my pets back and he would get me a car (could be a junk car, but that's not important, as long as it gets me to work). And I believe that poor woman could have an outcome like that too, if she put her FAITH in God's promises of provision. Not her SAVING faith, but a different kind of faith.

I am going to be researching scripture and will be starting a thread on the difference between saving faith and the faith that moves mountains. I take Jesus quite literally in Matt 17:20 where it says, "And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove ; and nothing shall be impossible unto you." The kind of faith Jesus is talking about here is a different kind of faith than saving faith(of course all faith is an outgrowth of the same root). If you look at that passage, there is nothing at all that suggests Jesus is using hyperbole. He says NOTHING shall be impossible unto you. Was He lying? No, but the faith he is speaking of is different than saving faith. But I'm not going to say any more until I've done some more research.
 
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mjjcb said:
FaithTransforms???

mjjcb said:
Faithy, I know this guy named Paul. He had this crazy saying about "being thankful in all circumstances, when he had much and when he had little" You might know him too.

My guess is that you wouldn't disagree that a very poor person who has nothing but unshakable faith is still blessed. So who's more blessed, you or her? Maybe you say you're both blessed. What's the common denominator in that scenario? Faith! If you're both blessed at opposite ends of the line of wealth, than what's holding you together?

Lastly, I'll ask this: is it a better gift of faith to know it wouldn't kill you not to have a car, or to actually get one? Personally, if God refined me even a little by having to live without a car, and my faith came out at least as strong, I would consider that gift over the other.


I'm going to be in and out of this thread sooner than I was in the "FaithTransforms Loves Joel Osteen" thread we drove into the ground, but I couldn't ignore your shameless spin-off of my thread I started on your hero, Joeal Osteen. Since this is a spin-off from my thread, whatever residuals Joel doesn't get from you, I want 25%. That's assuming Osteen takes 50% of your money even though you aren't paid a dime for being the President of is fan club.

You say you don't love Osteen, buuuut, I knoooow you doooo! :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents :twocents the money just adds up when you get near this guy, huh? :lol
Were you planning on replying to this???

Hey! Give me a chance! I just did, LOL!
 
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Also, in Matt 17, when Jesus said this kind only comes out by fasting and prayer, I believe he meant it was the UNBELIEF that could only come out by fasting and prayer because Jesus had already given them authority over ALL POWER over the power of the enemy. That being the case, they wouldn't need to fast and pray, because they already had ALL POWER over the enemy beforehand. If I'm not mistaken all power means ALL POWER, not fast and pray and then you'll have the power.
 

Mike

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FaithTransforms,

The whole premise of "name it, claim it" theology (besides being flawed IMO) is the problem it can present to faithful Christians.

When I truly came to faith about 20 years ago, I was radically saved. I mean I was shot out of a cannon. I listened to everything, read everything, talked to everyone I could. In my spiritual infancy, I was very impressionable. I had a friend who said he literally heard the voice of God talk to him from time to time. I couldn't say that I had. This led to guilt on my part. "Why am I not hearing His voice? Am I not truly born again?" Eventually I learned enough to put this notion aside. Years later, he would say that he never actually "heard a literal voice". I wanted to call him out and tell him how much it effected me when he wasn't very honest in his spiritual experience, but I just left it alone. That's between him and God.

So back to our situation, I believe this leads to people questioning where they stand with God. Or worse, people pointing a finger (not you, FT) at them and telling them so much. Either way, they can feel they are not living righteously enough or their faith isn't strong enough.

Would you agree that sometimes, God will simply say "no" to worldly gifts, because they are not in the person's best interest? I would say - definitely! So this will happen to everyone at some point, and it can have a negative impact on someone's confidence in their faith and even salvation.

We'll never agree that Jesus' promises are not physical gifts, but spiritual gifts. I've long since given up on trying to convince you of that. Would you agree that there is the danger of harming someone's walk, by setting them up with grand expectations?
 
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mjjcb said:
FaithTransforms,

The whole premise of "name it, claim it" theology (besides being flawed IMO) is the problem it can present to faithful Christians.

When I truly came to faith about 20 years ago, I was radically saved. I mean I was shot out of a cannon. I listened to everything, read everything, talked to everyone I could. In my spiritual infancy, I was very impressionable. I had a friend who said he literally heard the voice of God talk to him from time to time. I couldn't say that I had. This led to guilt on my part. "Why am I not hearing His voice? Am I not truly born again?" Eventually I learned enough to put this notion aside. Years later, he would say that he never actually "heard a literal voice". I wanted to call him out and tell him how much it effected me when he wasn't very honest in his spiritual experience, but I just left it alone. That's between him and God.

So back to our situation, I believe this leads to people questioning where they stand with God. Or worse, people pointing a finger (not you, FT) at them and telling them so much. Either way, they can feel they are not living righteously enough or their faith isn't strong enough.

Would you agree that sometimes, God will simply say "no" to worldly gifts, because they are not in the person's best interest? I would say - definitely! So this will happen to everyone at some point, and it can have a negative impact on someone's confidence in their faith and even salvation.

We'll never agree that Jesus' promises are not physical gifts, but spiritual gifts. I've long since given up on trying to convince you of that. Would you agree that there is the danger of harming someone's walk, by setting them up with grand expectations?

Understand that name it and claim it is not "I want a Cadillac, God you said I would prosper, so give me a cadillac". That is totally unscriptural. But for instance, in Isaiah 53, where it says Jesus bore our griefs, look at the Strong's definition of griefs:

The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

Strong's Number: 02483
Original Word Word Origin
ylx from (02470)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Choliy TWOT - 655a
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
khol-ee' Noun Masculine

Definition
sickness


King James Word Usage - Total: 24
sickness 12, disease 7, grief 4, sick 1

You can see that this word was translated as sickness, desease or sick 20 times, and was only translated as grief 4 times and the only definiton given in Strong's is sickness. I believe that Jesus bore our sicknesses on the cross. He became a curse for us to free us from the curse of the Law. Well part of the curse of the Law was sickness. In Deut 28, God even says all the sicknesses not named here fall under this curse. So he is saying EVERY sickness is under the curse. So I believe I am redeemed of sickness because Jesus became the curse, that we might be free from the curse of the Law. Therefore, when I start to get symptoms of illness, I confess out loud "I am redeemed from the curse, Jesus bore my sickness on the cross, and by His stripes I am healed. Now virus, you leave my body RIGHT NOW in the Holy Name of Jesus Christ." In fact, I did this just yesterday, I was having all the signs of a chest cold, I confessed the above and today all the symptoms are gone.

I would agree though that if there are any nuts in the cereal box, it is among the name it claim it crowd. Most certainly there are many who use this unscripturally. But I believe that what I have described above IS scriptural.

I would never want anyone to believe they are somehow inferior or to think there is something wrong with them and or that they don't have faith. But many ARE unaware how to use faith (again not saving faith, but mountan moving faith, which as I said I will expound upon later once I have searched the scriptures and meditated on it).
 
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