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Melchisedec Was Our Lord Jesus

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veteran

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The name Melchisedec is from the Hebrew, and means 'King of Righteousness'. Some have accepted an old Gnostic teaching that tries to say Melchisedec was some flesh man that existed in Abraham's day, when all along, Melchisedec was our Lord Jesus back in the Old Testament Who met Abraham, and offered him bread and wine, and blessed him.

Hebrews 7 reveals this, but it takes patience.

Heb 7:1-16
1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Our Lord Jesus is titled The Prince of Peace, and why is that since He is also our KING? It's to show His reign over all nations, reigning literally in our midst, is still expecting today, for that literal reign on earth is about His return, His second coming to rule with the rod of iron of Revelation.

3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Melchisedec had no geneaological descent, nor start or end of days, "but made like unto the Son of God". Does that mean there can be TWO or more Sons of God? That's what the Gnostics would have us believe, even that we each can raise ourselves into the postion as Christs and become a Son of God like our Lord Jesus. Those in Christ are called "sons of God", not a "Son of God", for that Son of God Title ONLY applies to our Lord Jesus Christ.

Some will still try and say Melchisedec was some flesh king that no genealogical record was known of, the idea that a record may have existed somewhere, only that no one knew about it. That's not what Paul is saying here. He means this Melchisedec was literally without beginning of days nor "end of life", and that he abides in the priest office "continually". That's another pointer to Everlasting, which can only point to God.

4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

Paul contrasts the Levitical priesthood to the Priesthood of Melchisedec. The Levite priests took tithes of the people, and they descended from Abraham. But that was much later, even around 430 years when the Levitical priesthood was setup according Old Covenant law.

6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

But this Melchisedec wasn't even descended from Abraham, the Old Covenant not offered yet at this point, and yet Melchisedec received tithes of Abraham, and even blessed Abraham.

7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

Again, contrast the Levitical priesthood, because when Melchisedec received tithes of Abraham, the Levitical priesthood was still in Abraham's loins! It hadn't even been born yet! So how could this Melchisedec bless Abraham, since the law of the Levites blessing the people hasn't even come yet then? The idea is that Melchisedec's Office is pointing to a Higher Priest Office than the later Levitical priesthood, even in that time of Abraham.

9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Here's the contrast again Paul makes. Levi received tithes, and paid tithes also in the Levitical priest office. Yet Levi, wasn't even born yet when Melchisedec received tithes. So what gives?

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Just as the Promise by Faith was first, before the law was given (for Abraham received the Promise by Faith around 430 years before the law), likewise this Priesthood of Melchisedec is tied with that Promise by Faith. In Gen.14 we even find this Melchisedec offerred Abraham "bread and wine", sacrements of the New Covenant.

So if Salvation (idea of "perfection" there) were by the Levitical priesthood, then why was there a need for another Priest after the order of Melchisidec? That's getting closer to the idea of our Lord Jesus' Ministry in The New Covenant, for He now is our High Priest after the order of Melchisedec.

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Likewise, because the Levitical priesthood couldn't save, the need for a change of the law came, which is about the offering of Christ's Blood of The New Covenant.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.


HERE'S the pivot point that reveals Who this Melchisedec was that met Abraham.

The phrase, "For he of whom these things are spoken" means ALL the things in the previous verses just covered. Paul is saying, now all these things I've been speaking about pertains to one of another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. Paul then says, "For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda". That's the "another tribe" Paul was speaking about, which had no attendance at the altar, for only the Levites and sons of Aaron were commanded to attend to the altar.

It is our Lord Jesus of the tribe of Judah which ALL the previous things concerning Melchisedec is being spoken about. Paul is pointing directly to our Lord Jesus as Melchisedec Who met Abraham.

The Jews especially hate this teaching, because at the end of John 8 our Lord Jesus told them that Abraham saw His day, and was glad. And they questioned our Lord and asked Him if He had seen Abraham, seeing that Jesus was not even in old age yet. Our Lord Jesus told them, "...Before Abraham was, I am". The "I AM" is the sacred Name of God which He gave to Moses. Those Jews then tried to stone our Lord Jesus. But with that, our Lord Jesus showed that Abraham saw Christ's day, and was glad. How did Abraham see Christ's day? That's why Melchisedec Who met Abraham in Gen.14 was actually our Lord Jesus Christ in Old Testament times, before He was born through Mary's womb.


15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
(KJV)

That word "similitude" is important, because it means in the 'likeness, resemblance, manner' of something. In this case, it's about Christ Jesus as High Priest after the likeness of Melchisedec. So what does that mean, since Christ's Role of High Priest per The New Covenant is being tied to the "similitude of Melchisedec"? It's like I said before, Melchisedec met Abraham when God's Promise by Faith was being given to Abraham, and that Promise by Faith was about the New Covenant that would come. It was given by Promise 430 years before... the Old Covenant was given through Moses. That Promise is what Melchisedec offering Abraham "bread and wine" represents. And Who else but Christ could offer that "bread and wine" of the New Covenant, even though it was only by Promise in Abraham's day?

Thus Melchisedec "King of Salem" was our Lord Jesus BEFORE He came in the flesh to die on the cross.
 
Vet

With all due respect, that is not the case despite some of the wording in Heb. Heb 1:1 itself disproves that concept (not a new concept - I have heard it before).

Best,
Anth
 
Certainly mysterious — a Christophany some say. Probably not enough info to say it is Christ unquestionably, but it seems to be a picture of Christ at the least.
 
Heb1:1 takes care of all Christophanies

Just because Heb 1:1 says that in the last days God spoke through His Son - doesn't eliminate the possibility that God spoke in the OT through the Second Person of the Trinity. I think all mention of the Son in the NT refer to Jesus. He wasn't called the Son until he was born a son. Before the incarnation, the Second Person is called the Word (John 1:1).

Veteran,
I have heard of Melchizedek as a type of Jesus, just as Moses and Joshua are types of Jesus - but I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that this was a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus himself. I think your whole argument revolves around the question of his genealogy - which I don't think is enough to make a definitive claim.

Either way, as you mentioned, Melch. was called the King of Salem as well as a priest of God Most High.
That makes me wonder. Do you think "Salem" is just a figurative city? Or do you think a pre-incarnate Jesus was actually the physical king of a city for some period of time? Which begs the question - how long was he the king and what happened when he disappeared and stopped being the king? And if "Jesus" was the king of an actual city, that would contradict the uniqueness of Israel as God's chosen people - for "Jesus" would have reigned as a Theocrat over a city and a people group that wasn't Israel. I found this thought on the city of Salem which suggests it was a real city "The general opinion among the Jews was that Salem was the same as Jerusalem, as stated by Josephus."

Also, Hebrews seems to suggest that Jesus didn't take on the role of a priest until he ascended to heaven and made propitiation for our sins with his own blood. However, Melchizedek was a priest long before this.

It doesn't seem like all these ends logically meet together.
 
Aaron the Tall said:
Heb1:1 takes care of all Christophanies

Just because Heb 1:1 says that in the last days God spoke through His Son - doesn't eliminate the possibility that God spoke in the OT through the Second Person of the Trinity. I think all mention of the Son in the NT refer to Jesus. He wasn't called the Son until he was born a son. Before the incarnation, the Second Person is called the Word (John 1:1).

Veteran,
I have heard of Melchizedek as a type of Jesus, just as Moses and Joshua are types of Jesus - but I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that this was a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus himself. I think your whole argument revolves around the question of his genealogy - which I don't think is enough to make a definitive claim.

Either way, as you mentioned, Melch. was called the King of Salem as well as a priest of God Most High.
That makes me wonder. Do you think "Salem" is just a figurative city? Or do you think a pre-incarnate Jesus was actually the physical king of a city for some period of time? Which begs the question - how long was he the king and what happened when he disappeared and stopped being the king? And if "Jesus" was the king of an actual city, that would contradict the uniqueness of Israel as God's chosen people - for "Jesus" would have reigned as a Theocrat over a city and a people group that wasn't Israel. I found this thought on the city of Salem which suggests it was a real city "The general opinion among the Jews was that Salem was the same as Jerusalem, as stated by Josephus."

Also, Hebrews seems to suggest that Jesus didn't take on the role of a priest until he ascended to heaven and made propitiation for our sins with his own blood. However, Melchizedek was a priest long before this.

It doesn't seem like all these ends logically meet together.


When The Father said He made Christ Jesus High Priest forever after the order of Melchisedec, which was first written in the Psalms, that is in effect declaring the order of Melchisedec as something higher than any other priesthood. That's what Hebrews 7 is revealing also. The reference to Melchesidec abiding a priest "continually" in Heb.7:3 is also a reference to forever. The prophecy that Christ would come to die on the cross goes back all the way to Gen.3:15, meaning God already had the Gospel Plan ordained even back then.

Moreover, Melchisedec's title of King of Peace (King of Salem), and our Lord Jesus' Title of Prince of Peace (or Prince of Salem) is another connection to The Gospel Promise early on. Not only that, Melchisedec receiving tithes of Abraham, and being offerred "bread and wine" and being blessed by Melchisedec is another pointer to Christ. And if that's not enough, Melchisedec being 'made like unto a Son of God' is yet another pointer to Christ.

But Heb.7:13-14 settles all that, because it refers back all things mentioned in the previous Heb.7 verses about Melchisedec to our Lord Jesus Who was born of the tribe of Judah, of which Judah had no attendance at the altar per the Old Covenant. Those two verses are pointing all things mentioned about Melchisedec to Christ Jesus.

It is one's carnal fleshy thinking that has trouble understanding this, because some simply don't fathom how our Lord Jesus could exist back in the Old Testament times without being born in a flesh body. The Oneness doctrines especially will cause one to have a difficult time understanding this. But even to infer that Christ did not exist everlasting with The Father is to wrongly assign our Lord Jesus to a thought which only came later, and not as God The Son, or The Word as you say. But Hebrews 1 corrects that too, if one will only heed what it says that The Father created all things through The Son, and that The Son is the express image of His Person.

Thus what Melchisedec's office of High Priest represented was Christ as King before He was born in the flesh, for God has always been our rightful King. And when our Lord Jesus said in John 8 that Abraham saw His Day, and was glad, and Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I am", that ALSO is a pointer to Christ as existing in Abraham's day, an undeniable pointer even, unless one agrees with those Jews there in John 8 which sought to stone Jesus just for saying that.

And what about the word Salem in Gen.14:18? It means 'Peace'. Jerusalem's name of Urushalem existed in Abraham's day, but the city was called Jebus back then, for the Jebusites of the Canaanite nations then possessed it. Because of that, some have bowed to Gnostic belief Melchesidec as some flesh priest from Jerusalem when the pagan Jebusites had possession of it. And the word Salem is supposedly derived from it's old name. But which Salem is our Lord Jesus Prince of? Certainly not a pagan Salem, and nor was Melchisedec of some pagan priesthood in the city of Jebus, simply because of the title of King of Salem. Hebrews 7:2 puts the Salem name in proper persepective with, 'King of Peace', a much higher order of meaning than of a city the pagan Jebusites inhabited.
 
Thanks for those interesting thoughts to ponder.

Please answer this one concisely if you can, since I didn't see a definitive answer in your reply:

Do you think Melch. was a momentary appearance of Jesus in the OT and was the king of a figurative city?
Or was he around in Abraham's day as king of a literal city for say 200 years or so? I know the text doesn't give us all this detail, but what would your guess be?
 
Aaron the Tall said:
Thanks for those interesting thoughts to ponder.

Please answer this one concisely if you can, since I didn't see a definitive answer in your reply:

Do you think Melch. was a momentary appearance of Jesus in the OT and was the king of a figurative city?
Or was he around in Abraham's day as king of a literal city for say 200 years or so? I know the text doesn't give us all this detail, but what would your guess be?

I think what I explained in my last post covered your question well. Melchisedec was our Lord Jesus back in Old Testament times Who met Abraham and blessed him, and offered him "bread and wine" to point forward to the New Covenant. And per Hebrews 7, Melchisedec abides a priest continually, in the everlasting sense. Thus the King of Salem title means King of Peace like Hebrews 7 says, which is pointing to the Jerusalem above.

Ps 110:1-6
1 The LORD said unto my Lord, "Sit Thou at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool.
2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule Thou in the midst of Thine enemies.
3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, 'Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.'
5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of His wrath.
6 He shall judge among the heathen, He shall fill the places with the dead bodies; He shall wound the heads over many countries.
(KJV)

What? Do some actually think Christ had no Throne before it was time for Him to be born through woman's womb? Do some actually think He didn't exist before?

Look Who appeared to Abraham in his tent door...

Gen 18:1-8
1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
(KJV)

One of the three men was our Lord Christ in OT times Who appeared to Abraham, and Abraham bowed to Him and called Him Lord. The other two men were the angels which were sent to pull Lot's family out of Sodom and Gomorrah. Notice Abraham prepared food and drink for all of them, and they sat and did eat.

Who do folks think the Angel of The Lord was in OT times, even the One Who Jacob wrestled with?

Gen 48:15-16
15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before Whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God Which fed me all my life long unto this day,
16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
(KJV)

Isa 63:7-9
7 I will mention the lovingkindnesss of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which He hath bestowed on them according to His mercies, and according to the multitude of His lovingkindnesss.
8 For He said, Surely they are My people, children that will not lie: so He was their Saviour.
9 In all their affliction He was afflicted, and the angel of His presence saved them: in His love and in His pity He redeemed them; and He bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
(KJV)

Exod 33:14
14 And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.
(KJV)

Gen 31:11-13
11 And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying, Jacob: And I said, Here am I.
12 And he said, Lift up now thine eyes, and see, all the rams which leap upon the cattle are ringstraked, speckled, and grisled: for I have seen all that Laban doeth unto thee.
13 I am the God of Bethel, where thou anointedst the pillar, and where thou vowedst a vow unto me: now arise, get thee out from this land, and return unto the land of thy kindred.
(KJV)

Exod 23:20-21
20 Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for My name is in him.
(KJV)

Exod 14:19
19 And the angel of God, which went before the camp of Israel, removed and went behind them; and the pillar of the cloud went from before their face, and stood behind them:
(KJV)

1 Cor 10:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.(KJV)

The word Angel simply means 'messenger', like an office; it's not a word pointing specifically to the idea of Heavenly specie like the word cherub does. Like Hebrews 1:3 says, Christ is the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His Person, even in Old Testament times.
 
Unrelated to this thread, I have been studying Hebrews for about a week now. I am still not sure what to make of Melchezidek to be honest, but I definitely do not think there is substantial evidence to conclusively state that he was the pre-incarnate Jesus. I have no trouble "grasping" such a concept, I just don't think the text is definitive. And common sense begs the question, why would God raise up Jesus "after the order" of Melchezidek if Jesus WAS Melchezidek? It doesn't really make sense.

Some people seem to need to explain everything, when I believe there are just some things we will never know until we meet the Lord Himself and ask Him.
 
Also note how Paul continues about Melchisedec in Hebrews 7...

Heb 7:13-25
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.


Paul is linking Christ's Office as Priest back to Melchisedec's office as priest in the above. The law was not given yet when Melchisedec met Abraham, so the law of a carnal commandment was not about Melchisedec's office as priest either. Like Christ's, that "after the power of an endless life" is being pointed back to Melchisedec also, like Hebrews 7:3 showed.

17 For He testifieth, "Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."

And just to seal that, Paul repeats what God said about Christ being a Priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. One needs to stop and think about that, what it means about the "order of Melchisedec", because how can Christ become a Priest of any flesh priesthood connected with the law which cannot save? Paul compares the flesh order of the Levitical priesthood to show this difference.

18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
20 And inasmuch as not without an oath He was made priest:
21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by Him That said unto Him, The Lord sware and will not repent, 'Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec':)

There's the comparison again, between the "order of Melchisedec" vs. the flesh Levitical priesthood which came later.

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

And once again, comparison between the "order of Melchisedec" vs. the flesh order of Levitcal priests. And that's about the 3rd time Paul brings up the idea of everlasting with the "order of Melchisedec" being of a type not limited by death like the Levitical order was.

24 But this man, because He continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them.
(KJV)

Did the "order of Melchisedec" begin as a fleshy priesthood like the Levitical priesthood, and then God changed it later for Christ? No, for the full meaning of Christ having an unchangeable priesthood after the order of Melchisedec means a priesthood that is everlasting. And when did everlasting begin? How can a Christian believe Jesus is God unless they also believe He has been since everlasting? When God said to Christ, "Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec", that "for ever" means even before His first coming, everlasting.

Heb 13:8
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
(KJV)

That's why it's wrong to try assign the "order of Melchisedec" to a flesh order priesthood.
 
faithtransforms said:
Unrelated to this thread, I have been studying Hebrews for about a week now. I am still not sure what to make of Melchezidek to be honest, but I definitely do not think there is substantial evidence to conclusively state that he was the pre-incarnate Jesus. I have no trouble "grasping" such a concept, I just don't think the text is definitive. And common sense begs the question, why would God raise up Jesus "after the order" of Melchezidek if Jesus WAS Melchezidek? It doesn't really make sense.

Some people seem to need to explain everything, when I believe there are just some things we will never know until we meet the Lord Himself and ask Him.

Yeah, this is kinda one of those mysteries in God's Word. To grasp the concept that our Lord Jesus was Melchisedec (King of Righteousness) in Old Testament times is to grasp that the order of Melchisedec is everlasting, and that it never was connected with an eartly flesh priesthood. The only difference was in time before Christ was born in the flesh vs. after His death and Resurrection.

The blessing of "bread and wine" Melchisedec gave to Abraham is connected with God's Promise to Abraham about His Promise of Salvation by Faith, an operation which Paul teaches in Romans and Galatians that was given Abraham around 430 years prior to the law being given through Moses. Thus the Promise by Faith was always... first. Thus the King of Righteousness Office was also first.
 
At any rate,

Noah died when Abraham was 58
Abraham died when Shem was 565
Shem died 35 years after Abraham died

Noah and Shem were still hanging around when Abraham was alive.

And Shem outlived them all, lol.
 
Veteran,

Nobody is doubting that Jesus existed from eternity past and that he appeared to men in the OT as the Angel of the Lord. One reason we know this is because this messenger speaks as if He were God and He causes the ground to become holy. We don't have either of these clues when Melch. shows up to meet with Abraham.

I guess you think you clearly answered my question twice now, but let me rephrase things to make sure we are on the same page:

By calling Melch. the King of Salem - it just means the King of Peace - perhaps also a reference to Jerusalem. So, you are saying he wasn't literally the King of some physical city called Salem - but that he is the eternal King of Peace and of Jerusalem.

Is that basically what you are saying?
 
Melchisedec was a type for Christ, not Christ himself. Believe it or not, but some people actually worshiped God before the time of Moses and the law. The Jews needed to be reminded of this as they did not believe a priest who didn't fulfill the hereditary requirements of the law (i.e. Levite etc.) was valid. Hebrews 7 shows that Jesus is the head of a priestly order superior to that of the Jews because it was based on Faith rather than heredity.
 
Here's a different perspective for your consideration. Malki-tzedek (which means "my righteous king") represented a Gentile priesthood which remains totally separate from the the only priesthood specified in the Hebrew Bible for the Jewish people, ie the Aaronic priesthood. There is nothing in the Hebrew Bible which states that the Aaronic priesthood would be superseded or replaced by some other priesthood. In fact, the Hebrew Bible is quite clear that the Aaronic/Levitical priesthood would serve as such for the Jewish people eternally ( but not necessarily continually)

Secondly, Paul is incorrect in his statement in Hebrews. It was Abram, not Abraham who tithed the spoils. The name conversion and its implications make all the difference in the world to what this event signifies.
 
Whether Paul was the author or not is immaterial (although Origen opined that the thoughts were Paul's but the style was by another author). The significant point here is that it was Abram who tithed and was blessed, not Abraham. The conversion of Abram's name with the Hebrew letter "hay" in the context of the covenant of the circumcision is what I was trying to stress.
 
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