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[_ Old Earth _] Monkey Apes Humans by Walking on Two Legs

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Animals have no simular DNA to humans and no genetics at all that are even close to that of human beings.
Put down the fairy tale rags and wake up!!!
1. We are animals, as has already been pointed out in this discussion.
2. Yes, some animals do have similar DNA to humans, especially the chimps. I mean, just flat out denying it isn't going to make this false. You're trying to deny a confirmed fact here.
3. Similar to the question I made above, what makes the Bible real and a fairy tale unreal? Explain.

:B-fly: The Bible must be real because God is real,amen.
It's not hard to get this when you know it is a fact.
Humans DNA and animal DNA is in no way simular,and forensic
science proves this. In crime scenes human DNA and Animal DNA
are easily identified as different and not simular,and not the same.
Also,even more evidence has come out against the claims made by
some that humans and ape's have 90% something simular DNA.
Thats being proven false now.
 
blueeyeliner said:
:B-fly: Who taught you about evolution? Who do you believe is right about evolution?
No one "taught" me that evolution was right. Over a length of time, I learned the principles of the evolutionary theory, and I accept them conditionally, which means that the evidences for evolution satisfy me, and unless there's some smoking-gun falsification of it, then I see no reason to doubt it.
Still, evolution is put to the test every day in science labs and in how we observe the natural world.
What creatoinists try to do is to pretend that evolution can't exist in a universe designed by a creator. They shackle God's hands and restrict him to designing everything all at once. And yet this same goofy god, for some reason, left a perfectly sequenced order of animal fossils in the geologic column and carefully decayed them so that they'd each appear to representative of different eras, millions of years apart. He gave similar morphology to animals of simliar "design", almost as if they were related, and he even left a few living clues of this so-called faux evolution by giving us species that can interbreed, such as the camal and the llama.
So, either this God of yours is just a real comedian in how he leaves evidence, or evolution actually happened.

But again... the theory of evolution is not the theory that God doesn't exist. Many good, praying Christians accept evolution as a viable theory of natural change. They see it as part of God's divine creation. They look at the Bible as a collection of stories that have moral value. They don't take it literally. Taking it literally is really missing the point.

What you tried to do was take various quotes I made and make them
look silly,but why would you do that if you knew something that I
didn't know?
I was catching up and picking out things that I felt I needed to address. You don't know what my intentions are, so stop with the accusations.

The boogie man and other characters were made up by men.
No man would ever write a book like the holy bible unless God told
them to do it, because none of them could live by it, much less expect
others to do it.
I beg to differ. History is filled with thousands of mythical God figures. You don't seem to be aware that the myths of Dionysus, Osiris, and Mithra all contain versions things such as a virgin birth, a last supper, the performance of miracles, and a resurrection that takes place after three days. Sound familiar?
All of these myths predate Christianity.

you cannot allow yourself to believe their is a God and a price to pay for doing evil and for doing wrong.
You just cannot accept God,and there is a great big reason for this,and we all have reasons when it concerns such things,so I truly believe you cannot accept God because you do not want to be punished for sin.
Perhaps you fear you cannot change? well,you are right! You cannot do it,not alone. You need God and his son, amen.
On the contrary. I've investigated the Bible and found it contradictory and absurd. Your accusations are nothing more than a red herring.
I never said that I fear what I cannot change, and yet you went and put those words in my mouth. Why do you do that?
You know, you've done that a lot over three topics in which I've talked to you, and in each case, I think that's really unwarranted and unfair. I never said any of these things, and yet you keep making accusations.
 
blueeyeliner said:
No man would ever write a book like the holy bible unless God told them to do it,because none of them could live by it,much less expect others to do it.
The same logic would prove Islam to be true as well. Allah gave a lot of tough commandments to follow, but Muslims try very hard to follow their holy book that is breathed directly from Allah.

Quath
 
blue: No man would ever write a book like the holy bible unless God told them to do it,because none of them could live by it,much less expect others to do it.

Quath: The same logic would prove Islam to be true as well. Allah gave a lot of tough commandments to follow, but Muslims try very hard to follow their holy book that is breathed directly from Allah.

Gary: Wrong again Quath. You really do need to actually READ the Quran and the Hadith before you try to tell us about Islam. I have already shown you several times that you know very little about Islam. Most of the RITUAL that Muslims follow are in the Hadith (and NOT the Quran!) It is a huge problem for the logic of their faith. Secondly, IF they DID follow the commands in the Quran, we would have more bin Ladens and Talibans!
http://www.prophetofdoom.net

.
 
Mr Neil: History is filled with thousands of mythical God figures. You don't seem to be aware that the myths of Dionysus, Osiris, and Mithra all contain versions things such as a virgin birth, a last supper, the performance of miracles, and a resurrection that takes place after three days. Sound familiar? All of these myths predate Christianity.

Gary: I doubt you have done much research on this. Why not try a few of these links?

Are there Pagan Origins to Christianity?

There are non-Christians who claim that there are many pagan influences which shaped the Christian faith and corrupted it. Here we consider how serious these speculations should be taken.

Most of these “pagan origin†theories were very popular around 1900 but have been discarded by NT scholarship long ago. Only some atheist groups and Muslims seem to be stuck on it but none of the experts of early Christianity find this acceptable anymore including those who are not Christians themselves.

Want more references? Try here: http://www.geocities.com/gary_bee_za/ch ... /pagan.htm

.
 
Gary_Bee said:
Wrong again Quath. You really do need to actually READ the Quran and the Hadith before you try to tell us about Islam. I have already shown you several times that you know very little about Islam. Most of the RITUAL that Muslims follow are in the Hadith (and NOT the Quran!) It is a huge problem for the logic of their faith. Secondly, IF they DID follow the commands in the Quran, we would have more bin Ladens and Talibans!
The proof of Islam is suppose to be the Allah breathed books written by the illiterate Mohammed. Now I am sure you already know this. You and I both do not believe this. However, they believe it. This is what I was talking to Blue about. Blue says "No man would ever write a book like the holy bible unless God told them to do it,because none of them could live by it,much less expect others to do it. " Islam is founded on their holy book which their god told them to write. Their book is like the Bible with differences due to it being a different religion.

So my response was correct. I have no idea why you think it is wrong. I don't care what rituals they follow or how closely you think they should follow their book. The point I was making is that they (like the Christians and Jews) think that God inspired their holy book. So before you say "wrong again" and I have to correct you, please look at what is being said.

Quath
 
As a matter of fact Gary, islam's legalism makes it a powerful tool for government. If anything Mohammed was a leader who founded a fairly workable theocratic government. It's flexible enough to work economically with all of its divine commands and still function in the modern world. Unlike christianity, the fairly benign and pacifist tenets of which had to be worked around by the catholic church(commanding crusades of an illiterate public, demanding tithes, controlling huge amounts of land in a Roman fashion) and later humanist and enlightenment thinkers who synthesized workable systems of ethics using the works of Greek and Roman philosophers. These philosophical works are the basis for law today in Europe and the US.(like it or not the constitution was written by people who didn't think that anyone should be forced to believe in one specific god and that no religious institution should hold governmental power)

Furthermore, if YOU followed the commands in the Old Testament you would attack and kill all nonbelievers, misbehaving children, gays, lesbians and people who wear cotton-poly blends, while at the same time Turning the other Cheek and forgiving all criminals as in the New Testament. So don't act like they are the only hypocrites.
 
If you're going to make a case against my post, Gary, then make a case. Don't bomb me with links. I'll read them, but it raises me level of suspicion when I'm attacked with link after link without so much as a single argument.
I'll tell you one thing, though. I noticed a few of your links go to tektonics.org, a very dubious source. J. P. Holding isn't known for linking to the arguments of his opponents; a tactic that has earned him the name "No-Links" Turkle. Yes, I know about that, too.
I have little patience for Turkle's one-sided arguments against invisible opponents, so I will respectfully decline those links you provided to tektonics.org. I'm not going to chase down the opponents at whom Turkle is slinging mud.

I've glanced a few of the other sites, and some of them seem to miss the point of the myth arguments. Many of them simply neglect explaining why the gospels are fact while similar myths are false. How can anyone logically hold that the gospels are true over any other extraordinary claim of mythical writings?
And one of your sites even made mention about Mithraism blossoming toward the end of the NT canon, which I fail to understand what the relevance is of mentioning that. The canon is simply a timeline of a story. The contention of the pagan influence argument is to show a possible influence on those who wrote the gospels.
Right now, I'm doing a little homework, and I'm going to see what kind of timeline I can come up with for when Mithraism was big in relation to when the gospels were written, and I'll have to get back to that at a later date.
 
Mr Neil: "...I've glanced a few of the other sites, "

Gary: OK... get back when you have done more research. I have spent quite a lot of time doing mine. Hence the many links.

Peace.
 
The Quran or the Hadith

Quath: Islam is founded on their holy book which their god told them to write.

Gary: Islam is founded on the Quran and, more importantly, the Hadith. The Hadith are NOT inspired nor do the Muslims claim that the Hadith are "Allah-inspired".

Quath: Their book is like the Bible with differences due to it being a different religion.

Gary: As I said, Islam is NOT only based on the Quran. So the analogy is incorrect.

Quath: I don't care what rituals they follow or how closely you think they should follow their book.

Gary: The rituals come from the Hadith. Most of the Islamic law comes from a combination of the Hadith and the Quran. So we have a combination of Allah-inspired commandments (many of which are the Jihad ones) and the words and deeds of Muhammad (the Hadith). Muslims do NOT claim that the Hadith are inspired. However, their relgion IS based on many of the Hadith!

Quath: The point I was making is that they (like the Christians and Jews) think that God inspired their holy book.

Gary: This is the only correct statement you made. But to then move on and try and claim that "Allah gave a lot of tough commandments to follow, but Muslims try very hard to follow their holy book that is breathed directly from Allah" is not correct. Most of the commandments in the Quran are about Jihad and believing that Muhammad is Allah's apostle and submitting. Most of the law (the commandments they follow) and the ritual of their religion is found in the Hadith. So what they try and follow is actually the Hadith.
 
Islamic ruled countries

Syntax: As a matter of fact Gary, islam's legalism makes it a powerful tool for government. If anything Mohammed was a leader who founded a fairly workable theocratic government.

Gary: "..fairly workable theocratic government"... :o :o Maybe you would like to give a few examples of Muslim-dominated countries which are following, as close as possible, Islam's legalism as defined by Muhammad. To me, the closest that Islam has come to having that theocratic government is the Taliban in Afghanistan! By the way, that law is called the Shari'a law. It is a DERIVED law as there are so many situations that are NOT covered by a 7th century Arab system of "law". In every country that the Shari's law has been started to be implemented, we have seen REGRESSION. I hardly call it a "fairly workable" government system.
 
Gary_Bee said:
Islam is founded on their holy book which their god told them to write.

Islam is founded on the Quran and, more importantly, the Hadith. The Hadith are NOT inspired nor do the Muslims claim that the Hadith are "Allah-inspired".
From the Yahoo encyclopedia:
At the core of Islam is the Qur'an, believed to be the final revelation by a transcendent Allah [Arab.,=the God] to Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam; since the Divine Word was revealed in Arabic, this language is used in Islamic religious practice worldwide.

Quath
 
:biggrin ..... now you are turning to the the Yahoo encyclopedia to learn about Islam! As I have said to you many times, you will never understand Islam untill you have read both the Quran and especially the Hadith.

"Five Pillars of Islam". Muhammad is alleged to have defined these pillars according to the following tradition:

Narrated Ibn Umar: Allah's Apostle said: Islam is based on (the following) five (principles):
  • 1) To testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and Muhammad is Allah's apostle.
    2) To offer the (compulsory congregational) prayers dutifully and perfectly.
    3) To pay Zakat (i.e. obligatory charity).
    4) To perform Hajj (i.e. Pilgrimage to Mecca).
    5) To observe fast during the month of Ramadan.
(Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 1, p. 17).

Can you now start to see that Islam is built on the Hadith?

You probably don't know but Sahih al-Bukhari (authenticated sayings and deeds of Muhammad as collected by al-Bukhari) is only one of several collections of Hadith.
 
:B-fly: Why can't the atheists admit that when they accept evolution
they are accepting an ancient pagan religion?
satan has them right where he wants them,so they will automatically
accept the Global religion when it gains control. They will tell themselves
that they don't want to die for their atheist beliefs when at least the
Global church shares their belief in evolution,so they'll go along for the
ride,risking their souls.
They will cling to their pagan religious belief that satan so cleverly used
to reel in the atheists because he's not about to let them go when he can
get them to worship him as a god sooner or later.

http://www.resurrectisis.org/PaganEvolution.htm

note: this site is written by an evolutionist!
 
Mr. Neil said:
That makes absolutely no sense to me!
The Bible says that there is nothing new under the sun.
When dealing with people who obviously don't take the Bible as literal truth, Blueeyeliner, I'm wondering why you insist on appealing to it, as if you can make a point by saying, "The Bible says this." Obviously, one of the things in question when dealing with evolution is the literal interpretation of the Bible, so using Bible-says-so arguments aren't going to be effective.

:B-fly: Thats why you should know that the same holds true for the idea
of evolution. Just because the ancient pagan religious practices are back,
and getting more and more popular is no reason for you to just assume
that christians will accept it as a valid claim to debate with.
Evolution has no proof to support it,and we know that pagans invented
it.
Why would you try to use evolution as a legitimate way to debate with a
christian?

http://www.ex-atheist.com
 
blueeyeliner said:
:B-fly: Why can't the atheists admit that when they accept evolution they are accepting an ancient pagan religion?
Because even if we were to accept the link you provided as fact, there's still no connection between a pagan believe in ancestor worship and the modern mainstream biological science of evolution.
Unfortunately, the link that you provided seems to be a website written by some occultist wackjob. And his very improper usage of the word "evolution" in his article is hardly convincing. This man does not represent one ioda of what modern evolution theory has to say.

Unlike a religion, evolutionists don't just say, "We believe, because it's in our book." Evolution is accepted because certain principles of the theory can be tested and show consistantly that the theory is a viable link to all biology.
It is not founded on ancient principles. It does not rely on ancient principles to support itself. Modern evolution theory is its own entity.

And you keep mixing evolutionism with atheism. There are plenty of good Christians who accept evolution as part of God's creation. The theory of evolution is not the theory that God doesn't exist. It's merely a theory of process; not of design.
 
Mr. Neil said:
On the contrary. I've investigated the Bible and found it contradictory and absurd. Your accusations are nothing more than a red herring.

:B-fly: I totally believe that your pagan religious view is rather looney
tunes! Evolution is an ancient fable. The Bible only makes sense to those
that love the truth. If you were color blind and I wasn't,I could tell you
over and over again that my shirt was pink and you'd say it was red.
The same thing with the bible. How can you being a worldly and lost
soul understand something like the bible when you are not able to -
even understand it because you are blinded by the devil?
You love your own self way too much to humble yourself. I believe
this because of what the bible says about it.
Psalm 10 : 3,4 The Man greedy for gain curses and renounces The Lord.
In the pride of his countenance the wicked does not seek him;all his
thoughts are,"There is no God"
 
Mr. Neil said:
And you keep mixing evolutionism with atheism. There are plenty of good Christians who accept evolution as part of God's creation. The theory of evolution is not the theory that God doesn't exist. It's merely a theory of process; not of design.

:B-fly: No sir,I do not. Mr. Neil,you are way off track here.
I am talking about the atheists like yourself. I totally believe evolution
is an ancient religious practice,even if you don't know that yet.
I am not saying that the person on that website isn't crackers,but he
is telling the truth about your religion of evolution. He firmly believes
in it,and is willing to support his claims.
Read some of the excellent books out there available on the subject.
Better yet,research it out for awhile.
There is nothing new under the sun!
I am very much aware that religious groups accept evolution,they never
did stop,and now it's popular again.
 
Mr. Neil said:
Evolution is accepted because certain principles of the theory can be tested and show consistantly that the theory is a viable link to all biology.
It is not founded on ancient principles. It does not rely on ancient principles to support itself. Modern evolution theory is its own entity.

:Fade-color Neil,support your claims. I am sure that when it's clear to
you that evolution is an ancient religious claim,not by only those who
worship their ancestors and dead relatives,you'll be dancing and singing
to a different drummer and tune.
 
[quote="Mr. Neil" Unlike a religion, evolutionists don't just say, "We believe, because it's in our book." Evolution is accepted because certain principles of the theory can be tested and show consistantly that the theory is a viable link to all biology.
It is not founded on ancient principles. It does not rely on ancient principles to support itself. Modern evolution theory is its own entity.

:Fade-color How did you ever learn about evolution in the first place?
From a book,or a teacher and a book,either way,you have your books
and many,many,many of them.
And I thought the brainwashing in Jehovah's Witnesses was bad!
 
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