Bible Study Moses was perfect---Adam was only good?

[Truthfrees]

In a different thread, the subject of Adam and Moses came up.
StoveBolts made this comment:

I understand how your reasoning the word perfect. However, that's not how Moses reasoned by power of the Holy Spirit when he was directed to use good, not perfect

My objective when going to scripture is not to put my view on scripture, but rather for scripture to form my view. It's not always easy.

My point is this, and Strong's bears this out. Why did Moses call Noah perfect, but Adam only good?

In other words, why would I alter the original narrative from it's intended purpose?


IOW, Moses said Noah was perfect in his generation...
Genesis 6:9
9These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man,
blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.

Immediately we see that in the NASB the word RIGHTEOUS is used and not the word PERFECT.

The question that came up is:
Why would Moses say Adam was GOOD
and Noah was PERFECT ? (in those versions where the word PERFECT is used)

I've never thought of this before and would appreciate the input of others.

At the time of noah fallen angles were having children with human women and producing giant hybrid beings - noah being perfect in his generations means his genealogy was perfect - he was purely human and not hybrid human/ fallen angel

Genesis 6:1-8 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Wickedness and Judgment of Man
6 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

 

[GodsGrace]

At the time of noah fallen angles were having children with human women and producing giant hybrid beings - noah being perfect in his generations means his genealogy was perfect - he was purely human and not hybrid human/ fallen angel

Genesis 6:1-8 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Wickedness and Judgment of Man
6 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Thanks Truthfrees.
I always learned that angels are asexual.
So then this is not true?
I'm a bit confused to tell you the truth.

I'm unable to come to any determination about this.

But I can say that Adam was made perfect....
but Noah should not be called "perfect"...I like what some versions say better "he was a righteous man".

Jesus was the only perfect human... I have to agree with HeIsRisen2018 .

Adam was made perfect but did not remain that way...
Jesus remained perfect and so was a perfect lamb.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Adam was made perfect but did not remain that way...

The only thing that you said that I somewhat disagree with as I think that's what Adam was created for but he never actually was perfect because he was given the free will to sin and did so. I do believe that Jesus was also given the free will to sin but since He didn't even after being tempted to He was perfect in that sense. That's just my opinion on it anyways.

 

[Truthfrees]

Thanks Truthfrees.
I always learned that angels are asexual.
So then this is not true?
I'm a bit confused to tell you the truth.

I'm unable to come to any determination about this.

But I can say that Adam was made perfect....
but Noah should not be called "perfect"...I like what some versions say better "he was a righteous man".

Jesus was the only perfect human... I have to agree with HeIsRisen2018 .

Adam was made perfect but did not remain that way...
Jesus remained perfect and so was a perfect lamb.

true - it is confusing

it doesn't say noah was perfect - it says perfect in his geneologies - who his parents/grandparents/etc were - Genesis 6:9

where does it say adam was perfect? - i can only find very good - Genesis 1:31

 

[GodsGrace]

true - it is confusing

it doesn't say noah was perfect - it says perfect in his geneologies - who his parents/grandparents/etc were - Genesis 6:9

Right. JLB and others have explained this to me, so this I understand now.

It's still not understandable to me how EVERY OTHER HUMAN except the geneologies of Noah were infected by these angels,,,but not everything in the bible is undersandable.

where does it say adam was perfect? - i can only find very good - Genesis 1:31

This was also brought out by someone....

Adam was said by God to be very good.
But don't you think God made Adam perfect?
He was not supposed to die.
He was never going to get sick.
He got along with himself, others, nature and God.
He WALKED with God and spoke directly to Him.
It is said that Adam had infused knowledge,,,I believe this to be true because he would have had to know how to take care of the animals and plants - for instance.

I don't know how much more perfect a human could be...

Another consideration...God is perfect, could He make something unperfect?

Jesus said angels do not marry - Matthew 22:30 - and we will not marry in heaven either - but clearly the fallen angels were attracted to human women - Genesis 6:2-4
Matthew 22:30 New King James Version (NKJV)
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.
Genesis 6:2-4 New King James Version (NKJV)
2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive[a] with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Check out verse 4 of Genesis 6.
There were giants on the earth in those days......
Were the giants here BEFORE the angels mated with humans??

those angels who left their state of not marrying were put in chains eternally - Jude 6 clearly the fallen angels who rebelled against God have evil desires in them that the holy angels do not - that is my best understanding of how angels who were created to not marry - who were created to take care of man and worship and obey God could turn against all is right and hurt humans and hate God and do things God did not create them to do
Jude 6 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;

Whoa....Yeah...I don't get this AT ALL!

 

[Truthfrees]

Right. @JLB and others have explained this to me, so this I understand now.

It's still not understandable to me how EVERY OTHER HUMAN except the geneologies of Noah were infected by these angels,,,but not everything in the bible is undersandable.

good point - imo it would have to have been the power of God that protected noah's bloodline ancestors from mating with fallen angels or their hybrid offspring

Adam was said by God to be very good.
But don't you think God made Adam perfect?
He was not supposed to die.
He was never going to get sick.
He got along with himself, others, nature and God.
He WALKED with God and spoke directly to Him.
It is said that Adam had infused knowledge,,,I believe this to be true because he would have had to know how to take care of the animals and plants - for instance.

the fact that he sinned proves he was not perfect

Check out verse 4 of Genesis 6.
There were giants on the earth in those days......
Were the giants here BEFORE the angels mated with humans??

not that i can see from scripture - it seems scripture declares the origins of giants is the mating of fallen angels with human women

Whoa....Yeah...I don't get this AT ALL!

amen - me too

 

[JLB]

Thanks Truthfrees.
I always learned that angels are asexual.
So then this is not true?
I'm a bit confused to tell you the truth.

Please share whatever scriptures you have about this.

 

[GodsGrace]

Please share whatever scriptures you have about this.

I have no scriptures JLB.
I said from the beginning that I know nothing about this entire subject matter.
I learned from church that angels are asexual...
I've never studied this on my own....

 

[jasonc]

Good question but no I don't think he was for the simple fact he was given free will, and if he was perfect, he never would have sinned against God. Also when I say that Jesus was perfect,.. I mean that He was sinless. Cause actually I do believe since He was fully human as well as fully God,.. He made mistakes. He just never sinned even though He was tempted. Matthew 4:1-11.

Jesus having free will,choose the cross,he didn't have to. Adam choose to sin,you nor I have the ability to choose sin like Adam did .our nature is to sin,Adam didn't have that nature

 

[GodsGrace]

Please share whatever scriptures you have about this.

I started looking around on the net --- not my favorite way to learn...
but anyway, I found this...

in the Book of Enoch (Dead Sea Scrolls) there is mention of The Watchers, or Angels that were sent to earth to watch over humanity, but some started to lust after human females. Their leader Samyaza, ordered them to procreate with Humanity, which gave birth to a hybrid race called Nephilim.

But, we all know the Council of Nicaea decided not to include these Apocrypha in the “official” bible (assuming these texts were even known at the time).

source: https://www.quora.com/Are-angels-gender-non-binary-and-asexual

It does confirm your belief, and that of others on this thread.

Here's an article on the Essenes, for those interested:

Essenes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JLB]

I have no scriptures JLB.
I said from the beginning that I know nothing about this entire subject matter.
I learned from church that angels are asexual...
I've never studied this on my own....

Here is the scripture I was expecting you to post.


For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. Matthew 22:30


JLB

 

[JLB]

I started looking around on the net --- not my favorite way to learn...
but anyway, I found this...

in the Book of Enoch (Dead Sea Scrolls) there is mention of The Watchers, or Angels that were sent to earth to watch over humanity, but some started to lust after human females. Their leader Samyaza, ordered them to procreate with Humanity, which gave birth to a hybrid race called Nephilim.

But, we all know the Council of Nicaea decided not to include these Apocrypha in the “official” bible (assuming these texts were even known at the time).

source: https://www.quora.com/Are-angels-gender-non-binary-and-asexual

It does confirm your belief, and that of others on this thread.

Here's an article on the Essenes, for those interested:

Essenes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I will stick to what the scriptures say in our discussion, and not refer to the book of Enoch.



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Here is the scripture I was expecting you to post.


For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. Matthew 22:30


JLB

I thought of this actually.
I had even posted it early on...
BUT,,,we're not going to be angels,,,
we're going to have a glorified body ---this is different than being an angel.

Also, it seems as though the angels in heaven MAY BE asexual,,,but maybe not the ones that were banished from heaven ??

I just have no opinion.

 

[GodsGrace]

I will stick to what the scriptures say in our discussion, and not refer to the book of Enoch.



JLB

Sure. It's not scripture.
I wonder if it's accepted by the Jewish religion.

Anyway,
what do you make of the verse you posted:
Matthew 22:30

Do you agree with my assessment of it?

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Jesus having free will,choose the cross,he didn't have to. Adam choose to sin,you nor I have the ability to choose sin like Adam did .our nature is to sin,Adam didn't have that nature

I'm sorry but I must disagree with you on this one. We can choose to either lie or tell the truth, children choose whether or not they want to obey their parents, and a lot of the time they wind up choosing to do the right thing. We all choose whether or not we want to sin and a lot of the time we still do sin but we still have that choice regardless.

 

[jasonc]

I'm sorry but I must disagree with you on this one. We can choose to either lie or tell the truth, children choose whether or not they want to obey their parents, and a lot of the time they wind up choosing to do the right thing. We all choose whether or not we want to sin and a lot of the time we still do sin but we still have that choice regardless.

Then choose never to sin,at all.

If you,truly have no,such problem choosing .then you don't need redemption .Adam walked ,didn't fear God , and naked ,once he sinned that changed .you,nor I ,can actually truly without any inclination to sin actually on our own stop sin.Adam never sinned from his creation by God ,he choose of his own free choice to sin with eve.

We can't say that.Adam can.

 

[jasonc]

By implying Adam was at creation sinful is to imply the position that not even a reformed person takes he was made sinful.

The reformed say ,Adam was ordained to make his choice but not forced ,it was gonna happen but that's a freewill debate .I,hold no position like that and i mention it because you imply a position that he was made to be sin.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Then choose never to sin,at all.

If you,truly have no,such problem choosing .then you don't need redemption .Adam walked ,didn't fear God , and naked ,once he sinned that changed .you,nor I ,can actually truly without any inclination to sin actually on our own stop sin.Adam never sinned from his creation by God ,he choose of his own free choice to sin with eve.

We can't say that.Adam can.

That's not what I meant. Everybody has the option whether they want to sin or not, but most of us fail (except for Christ who never failed) and wind up sinning anyways because it's in our nature,.. but it was our choice to and nobody else's.

 

[jasonc]

That's not what I meant. Everybody has the option whether they want to sin or not, but most of us fail (except for Christ who never failed) and wind up sinning anyways because it's in our nature,.. but it was our choice to and nobody else's.

You,Adam could have choose not to sin .since he was not a baby ,he an adult ,he didn't have no inclination to know what nudity was,he saw God with his face hidden,you can't see the face of God and live,yet Adam did.

And Adam talked with God in,the coolness of the day as a man talks with a friend .

God walked in the garden looking for him .figure that out and you will see that Adam had more then we do,we have yet to have that ,can't have a restoration to something beneath the original state.

Did Adam know what sin was?evil?no

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

You,Adam could have choose not to sin .since he was not a baby ,he an adult ,he didn't have no inclination to know what nudity was,he saw God with his face hidden,you can't see the face of God and live,yet Adam did.

And Adam talked with God in,the coolness of the day as a man talks with a friend .

God walked in the garden looking for him .figure that out and you will see that Adam had more then we do,we have yet to have that ,can't have a restoration to something beneath the original state.

Did Adam know what sin was?evil?no

I have to admit that you did wind up making a good point there. It's impossible to sin if you don't know what sin is. Hence why I believe all babies (probably young children as well) and animals go to Heaven since they don't know any better.