Most that claim scripture only, are not.

[Brother Mike]

Talking with the wife today about how the Apostles died, citing some historic evidence, I just asked..

Where is the scripture?

History is one thing, but it's not the Word of God, and History changes as Views change. History is subject to the current views at the time. When I was in school for example, Indians where savage beast, and us cowboys had to go out and clear the land of them.
Later on I am told we were the murderers, not the Indians. That did not keep the savages from killing white families, but the history was changed for me.

Preterist love history, and they have more faith in History than scriptures, because without their made up history they have nothing to believe scripture with. They are a major example of not being scripture only.

Talking with folks that claim Scripture only, I hear.... God knows the end from the Begging. They quote it as scripture. Where is it at then?

Jesus the 2nd person in the Godhead.............. Where is that scripture.

God is Sovereign. Scripture please.

God lives outside of time....... And the scripture is where?

I think you will find that a whole lot of self proclaiming scripture only folks are really just lying through their teeth and need to repent. It could be they are just confused. One thing for certain, they feel in their feeble minds that they have enough collaborative scriptures to support what ever they can make up.

I have done my best through the years to stick with scripture only and avoid catch doctrine phrases. The Lord asked me to teach faith in the Word, not teach catch phrases.

For those who have a real call to teach the Word (Not because you want, but the Lord called you) then I would suggest you Teach the Word only, line upon line and not make things up.

Just thinking, now time to go get slain in the spirit.
Where is that scripture?

Mike

 

[reba]

Mike did yesterday happen ? where is the Scripture

 

[reba]

While am here you must ne be because there is no scripture saying Mike is posting at CFnet

 

[Brother Mike]

While am here you must ne be because there is no scripture saying Mike is posting at CFnet

Wife asked me the same thing. She said....... Is Mike in the bible? According to you, then you must not be real.

 

[reba]

We girls stick together and we have never met
There is some value to history Mike... History is not the Word of God but it has values .. You are not listed in scripture but 'believe it or not' i think you have value..
Was hitler brought to an end or was he ever even born.. Is the world a total blank between the time the Scriptures were written and you were born?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

How the Apostles died is not Scripturally important.
As Jesus is God, he is always mentioned 2nd throughout Scripture.
God is sovereign?
Isaiah 55:9
God lives outside of time?
Who told you that?
God knows the beginning to the end?
Isaiah 46:10 Psalm 139
Slain in the Spirit?
2 Chronicles 5:14
Michael - Revelation 12:9
Rebecca - Genesis 24:1-9
Yesterday - Hebrews 13:8

What else you got?

 

[DanielGarneau]

Hello Rollo, Mike and Reba,

Thank you for what you all shared.

I'd like to build on Mike and Reba's, using their posts as building blocks for mine. And, true enough, Rollo, there are some information that comes from history that we don't really need to have. Yet here is the additional point I'd like to make.

It is important to make a distinction between what we recognize as an authoritative source for our convictions and practice as believers, and that is the Bible only, true enough. However, I struggled many years with trying to understand on what basis we believed that the New Testament was the Word of God. I had no problem at all with the Old Testament, because it was attested by the New Testament authors.

I slowly came to realize that I had too much distrust in what I used to think simply as "tradition". But what is called tradition is in fact historical data outside the Bible. This data comes through the writings of the first Christian writers, either directly, or indirectly through quotations from other Christian writers or Church historians. Their writings helps us to better understand how we came to trust every New Testament book just as the apostles trusted Old Testament.

I think this is an interesting discussion we are having here.

God bless!

 

[Brother Mike]

How the Apostles died is not Scripturally important.
As Jesus is God, he is always mentioned 2nd throughout Scripture.
God is sovereign?
Isaiah 55:9
God lives outside of time?
Who told you that?
God knows the beginning to the end?
Isaiah 46:10 Psalm 139
Slain in the Spirit?
2 Chronicles 5:14
Michael - Revelation 12:9
Rebecca - Genesis 24:1-9
Yesterday - Hebrews 13:8

What else you got?

0) How the apostles died are not in scripture, and thus not teachable as scripture.

1) Jesus is never mentioned as 2nd person in anything, and first in a lot of things.

2) We are told to be perfect as our Father in Heaven, His ways are higher, but that scripture Isa 55:9 has nothing to do with mans idea of God is Sovereign. Jesus command we think like God thinks, and our ways be like His ways.

3) God lives outside of time:
http://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tool...s-god-exist/a-god-not-bound-by-space-and-time
(one of many links)
If I had dime every time I heard a space case nut sound this off, drinks are on me, maybe enough for new cars!

4) Slain in the spirit:
So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.
(2Ch 5:14)
I think I understand what your getting at, but no scripture the Holy Spirit Slain them, or slain by the Spirit of God, and the Slain in the Spirit I was talking about left you alive.

5) God knows the End from the Begging:
Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
(Isa 46:10)

To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me. Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off. Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether. Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.
(Psa 139:1-5)

You need to read these again. One is Election (Causing), not fortune telling, the other is David following the path and plan of God. What God set before us, and we go there is something planned, or elected path.

6)
Michael - Revelation 12:9
Rebecca - Genesis 24:1-9
Yesterday - Hebrews 13:8

ya, OK.

 

[Brother Mike]

Hello Rollo, Mike and Reba,

Thank you for what you all shared.

I'd like to build on Mike and Reba's, using their posts as building blocks for mine. And, true enough, Rollo, there are some information that comes from history that we don't really need to have. Yet here is the additional point I'd like to make.

It is important to make a distinction between what we recognize as an authoritative source for our convictions and practice as believers, and that is the Bible only, true enough. However, I struggled many years with trying to understand on what basis we believed that the New Testament was the Word of God. I had no problem at all with the Old Testament, because it was attested by the New Testament authors.

I slowly came to realize that I had too much distrust in what I used to think simply as "tradition". But what is called tradition is in fact historical data outside the Bible. This data comes through the writings of the first Christian writers, either directly, or indirectly through quotations from other Christian writers or Church historians. Their writings helps us to better understand how we came to trust every New Testament book just as the apostles trusted Old Testament.

I think this is an interesting discussion we are having here.

God bless!

We do have the first Christian writers, as Jesus said that we believe on their Word (John 17) It's also called scriptures they wrote. My point is what understanding can be gained to be called scriptural, and part of God's truth if God had not had it written. Should we teach history if told to teach the Word only?

Is there a Danger taking a past historic event, and just finding scriptures to match it? It seems to change as we get new historic events.

Can we quote someone in teaching something and it be OK.
"Faith begins where the will of God is Known" F. F. Bosworth

 

[DanielGarneau]

[...] We do have the first Christian writers, as Jesus said that we believe on their Word (John 17) It's also called scriptures they wrote. [...]

You're right. I agree. What I meant was the first christian writers after the New Testament had been written. They are not authoritative writings, but they help us validate important points, and is thus useful to know.

God bless.

 

[reba]

Michael - Revelation 12:9
Rebecca - Genesis 24:1-9
Yesterday - Hebrews 13:8

Love it

 

[Free]

Talking with folks that claim Scripture only, I hear.... God knows the end from the Begging. They quote it as scripture. Where is it at then?

Jesus the 2nd person in the Godhead.............. Where is that scripture.

God is Sovereign. Scripture please.

God lives outside of time....... And the scripture is where?

Those things are all based on Scripture, even if there is no specific verse saying so.

I think you will find that a whole lot of self proclaiming scripture only folks are really just lying through their teeth and need to repent. It could be they are just confused. One thing for certain, they feel in their feeble minds that they have enough collaborative scriptures to support what ever they can make up.

Can you see how much spiritual pride and arrogance are in those statements?

 

[Brother Mike]

Those things are all based on Scripture, even if there is no specific verse saying so.


Can you see how much spiritual pride and arrogance are in those statements?

There is so much I want to post to this, flesh is a hard combatant.

 

[YosefHayim]

Jesus the 2nd person in the Godhead.............. Where is that scripture.

Perhaps 1 Jn 5:7 "For there are three that bear witness, the Father (1.Yahweh, OT), The Word (2. Yahweh came into the flesh as Jesus), and the Holy Ghost (3. Believers baptized).

This works Chronologically (Yahweh spoke Christ through Prophets, then Christ came, then the Holy Ghost was sent after Christ's death).

In the end, The Father is in Christ and Christ is in the Father. All 3 are God, and I don't think the order matters.

God is Sovereign. Scripture please.

Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21. Specifically, He raised Christ from the dead.

God lives outside of time....... And the scripture is where?

"1000 days is as a day to the lord, and a day is as 1000 years"... and "1000 years in your sight are as yesterday past" (Ps 90:4) Who else can make known the end from the beginning? (Is. 46:10)

 

[Brother Mike]

Perhaps 1 Jn 5:7 "For there are three that bear witness, the Father (1.Yahweh, OT), The Word (2. Yahweh came into the flesh as Jesus), and the Holy Ghost (3. Believers baptized).

This works Chronologically (Yahweh spoke Christ through Prophets, then Christ came, then the Holy Ghost was sent after Christ's death).

In the end, The Father is in Christ and Christ is in the Father. All 3 are God, and I don't think the order matters.


Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21. Specifically, He raised Christ from the dead.



"1000 days is as a day to the lord, and a day is as 1000 years"... and "1000 years in your sight are as yesterday past" (Ps 90:4) Who else can make known the end from the beginning? (Is. 46:10)

Thank you for helping out here. I made the post though as just something to do, not really taking it all that serious.

I only mentioned people saying "Jesus is the 2nd person in the Godhead" There is no scripture denoting him to be 2nd place in anything, and many He is first all things consisting in Him. We are also In Him, so we must all be god if we keep interpretation consistent. Faulty Doctrine can not be consistent, and always contradicts something else in scripture. Faulty doctrine must cherry pick it's scriptures.


God is Sovereign........... Zero scripture for this idea. He raised Christ from the dead, brought him out of hell, the scripture saying He shall not leave my soul in Hell. Sovereign does not just denote resurrection power. We have to examine how people use the Word, and mostly it's used for God does what he wants, when He wants, despite what he already said.

God knows the End from the Beginning..................... While time to God might be different in perspective, it does not place him at the end of it. Scripture says God declares the end, from the beginning, so time would flow as He has spoken, and it did not return void. That would be Election, not foreknowledge.

I am not for election, but There are many things God spoke, that will happen, and it will end as He has said.

Now if you take a personal message God spoke to you (Not the more sure word) and God says go here and do this and this will happen for you. It's dependent on you doing what he said do, to get what he said will happen. I believe God has a defined path and purpose for each of us that won't fail if we follow it.

 

[YosefHayim]

I only mentioned people saying "Jesus is the 2nd person in the Godhead" There is no scripture denoting him to be 2nd place in anything, and many He is first all things consisting in Him. We are also In Him, so we must all be god if we keep interpretation consistent. Faulty Doctrine can not be consistent, and always contradicts something else in scripture. Faulty doctrine must cherry pick it's scriptures.

I don't see how you relate the former to the latter. You're saying that something completely irrelevant to the other must be interpreted x way since the other is interpreted which ever way it is. Because we are in him does not make us Gods (Psalm 100:3).

God is Sovereign........... Zero scripture for this idea. He raised Christ from the dead, brought him out of hell, the scripture saying He shall not leave my soul in Hell. Sovereign does not just denote resurrection power. We have to examine how people use the Word, and mostly it's used for God does what he wants, when He wants, despite what he already said.

The scriptures don't have the word "Rapture" or "Trinity" either. But you can find clear and synonymous implications for different concepts. E.g. There are scriptures say that the Spirit is God, Jesus is God, the Father is God, that the Father is the Spirit, that Jesus is the Spirit, that Father is Jesus, and that these three are Achad, One. They are Body, Soul, and Spirit; Earth, Blood, and Water.

God knows the End from the Beginning..................... While time to God might be different in perspective, it does not place him at the end of it. Scripture says God declares the end, from the beginning, so time would flow as He has spoken, and it did not return void. That would be Election, not foreknowledge.

You have to be outside of time to see the whole of time as one point, as scripture says "1000 days are in thy sight". Election has to do with salvation, not knowing the whole of time. He knows the end from the beginning, and he knows the past completely. There are many things that imply dimensional things, especially the spirit realm and Heaven. God is not bound by time or space. He created time and space. He entered time and space, putting on the body of space and dying the curse of time. He became what we were bound by to release us from that bondage. He suffered our sufferings, and that bondage had no victory over him. He conquered sin and death, that we may say "O death where is thy sting?". Believers in Christ are no longer affected by time spiritually, for they will not be hurt by the second death. We have eternal life in Christ. Time shall be no more one day, the scriptures say.

as He has spoken

We are surfing waves of sound proceeding forth from God. (Hebrews 1:3)

Genesis 1:2,3. (Title of Video indicates man's attempt to dethrone God as in Is. 14).

2 Corinthians 4:6

 

[Brother Mike]

I don't see how you relate the former to the latter. You're saying that something completely irrelevant to the other must be interpreted x way since the other is interpreted which ever way it is. Because we are in him does not make us Gods (Psalm 100:3).


The scriptures don't have the word "Rapture" or "Trinity" either. But you can find clear and synonymous implications for different concepts. E.g. There are scriptures say that the Spirit is God, Jesus is God, the Father is God, that the Father is the Spirit, that Jesus is the Spirit, that Father is Jesus, and that these three are Achad, One. They are Body, Soul, and Spirit; Earth, Blood, and Water.


You have to be outside of time to see the whole of time as one point, as scripture says "1000 days are in thy sight". Election has to do with salvation, not knowing the whole of time. He knows the end from the beginning, and he knows the past completely. There are many things that imply dimensional things, especially the spirit realm and Heaven. God is not bound by time or space. He created time and space. He entered time and space, putting on the body of space and dying the curse of time. He became what we were bound by to release us from that bondage. He suffered our sufferings, and that bondage had no victory over him. He conquered sin and death, that we may say "O death where is thy sting?". Believers in Christ are no longer affected by time spiritually, for they will not be hurt by the second death. We have eternal life in Christ. Time shall be no more one day, the scriptures say.


We are surfing waves of sound proceeding forth from God. (Hebrews 1:3)

Genesis 1:2,3. (Title of Video indicates man's attempt to dethrone God as in Is. 14).

2 Corinthians 4:6

Thank you for the input. Not really wanting to do the debate thing.

We are gods:
We are gods, that's not the issue. We are created just like the father. Jesus said we are in him as He is in the father... One big happy family. However, being in him does not make us the Lord God, or creator. He said we are his offspring, born of the word, and created in his "IMAGE" good and close enough to a god.

My beef was Jesus having to be the 2nd person in some Godhead. We make up the Godhead bodily, I guess we are number 4? It was the phrase I was speaking about.

Now getting deep into the Roman Catholic Trinity Doctrine and which version we get into would be a long thread "AGAIN" I am speaking about the modern phrase heard like in my church for example.

1,000 years are in his sight: (As Yesterday)
As yesterday. This was my point, if we want to believe something, since we don't have a scripture that just comes right out and says it, then we piece a bunch together that also don't say it. God does not fit most of mans thinking of what God is. This is where I come in and hopefully help fox fix some of their thinking.

God does not live outside of time, or is besides time. By his creation, time became a byproduct. Time is a byproduct of creation. God lives in the NOW time. There is no scripture that denotes different, and does not denote God knows the end from the beginning of every single thing.

I can show you a whole lot of things God does know, but it's because God spoke it, and the substance of faith, the Word goes forth and it makes it.

I won't get into the many scripture showing what God knows, and how He knows. I will say this.

If God knows everything about how things end for a person or people, then that in itself presents a whole mess of scriptural contradictions and even worse, it makes God out to be a liar. God can't lie, it's impossible for him. So it can't be the Knowing the end from the beginning.

But even so, if God did know, and God lives outside of time seeing everything, and every mans outcome, then it reverts back to election and not foreknowledge anyway. Might as well be Calvinist at this point. God places he spirit in man, knowing, is the same as causing.

We have to really think about scriptures, what we have been told and assumed is true. Once we examine things more closely we will see it's not what we thought it was.

If God dealed with us through some foreknowledge, a whole lot of us would be doomed the day we where born. No, Jesus said put dung around the tree, give it a chance, see if it will produce fruit.

Thank you for presenting reasonable things, a whole lot better than some around here.

Mike

 

[Lewis]

Do You Know How the Apostles Died?

I have not read this book in many years
FOX's BOOK of MARTYRS
http://www.ccel.org/f/foxe/martyrs/home.html

 

[YosefHayim]

Thank you for the input. Not really wanting to do the debate thing.

We are gods:
We are gods, that's not the issue. We are created just like the father. Jesus said we are in him as He is in the father... One big happy family. However, being in him does not make us the Lord God, or creator. He said we are his offspring, born of the word, and created in his "IMAGE" good and close enough to a god.

My beef was Jesus having to be the 2nd person in some Godhead. We make up the Godhead bodily, I guess we are number 4? It was the phrase I was speaking about.

Now getting deep into the Roman Catholic Trinity Doctrine and which version we get into would be a long thread "AGAIN" I am speaking about the modern phrase heard like in my church for example.

1,000 years are in his sight: (As Yesterday)
As yesterday. This was my point, if we want to believe something, since we don't have a scripture that just comes right out and says it, then we piece a bunch together that also don't say it. God does not fit most of mans thinking of what God is. This is where I come in and hopefully help fox fix some of their thinking.

God does not live outside of time, or is besides time. By his creation, time became a byproduct. Time is a byproduct of creation. God lives in the NOW time. There is no scripture that denotes different, and does not denote God knows the end from the beginning of every single thing.

I can show you a whole lot of things God does know, but it's because God spoke it, and the substance of faith, the Word goes forth and it makes it.

I won't get into the many scripture showing what God knows, and how He knows. I will say this.

If God knows everything about how things end for a person or people, then that in itself presents a whole mess of scriptural contradictions and even worse, it makes God out to be a liar. God can't lie, it's impossible for him. So it can't be the Knowing the end from the beginning.

But even so, if God did know, and God lives outside of time seeing everything, and every mans outcome, then it reverts back to election and not foreknowledge anyway. Might as well be Calvinist at this point. God places he spirit in man, knowing, is the same as causing.

We have to really think about scriptures, what we have been told and assumed is true. Once we examine things more closely we will see it's not what we thought it was.

If God dealed with us through some foreknowledge, a whole lot of us would be doomed the day we where born. No, Jesus said put dung around the tree, give it a chance, see if it will produce fruit.

Thank you for presenting reasonable things, a whole lot better than some around here.

Mike

There are 3 verses that say there is more to God, and the events to come, than just what's inside the bible.

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen" John 21:25
"Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." John 5:39
"but the word of God is not bound." 2 Timothy 2:9

If we are to believe in Bible Prophecy, we are going to have to consider history. What's prophesied WILL pass. But those events being prophesied are not in the Bible, only the prophecy. There are no iPhones in scripture, but it sure is a fulfillment of what's in scripture (Dan 12:4).

"Jesus loves me" - Show me the scripture.

 

[YosefHayim]

And when the townclerk had appeased the people, he said, Ye men of Ephesus, what man is there that knoweth not how that the city of the Ephesians is a worshipper of the great goddess Diana, and of the image which fell down from Jupiter? Acts 19:35