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Bible Study Must we be born again?

wondering

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Must we be born again?

And what exactly does this mean?

Jesus said we must be born again...or we cannot see the Kingdom of God.
John 3:3 NASB

Jesus said we must be born of spirit...or we cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.
John 3:5

Do the following all have the same meaning?:
Born Again
Born from Above
Born of the Spirit
Born of God

Is being justified the same as being born again?
Job 25:4 Bildad asked: How can man be justified with God? (some versions read "just")
Isaiah 45:25....in the Lord shall Israel be justified.

And what about Mathew 12:37? Jesus said:
"For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned".
 

JLB

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Must we be born again?

And what exactly does this mean?

Jesus said we must be born again...or we cannot see the Kingdom of God.
John 3:3 NASB

Jesus said we must be born of spirit...or we cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.
John 3:5

Do the following all have the same meaning?:
Born Again
Born from Above
Born of the Spirit
Born of God

Is being justified the same as being born again?
Job 25:4 Bildad asked: How can man be justified with God? (some versions read "just")
Isaiah 45:25....in the Lord shall Israel be justified.

And what about Mathew 12:37? Jesus said:
"For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned".

Great topic.

Great scriptures.


Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:3-6


  • “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

  • that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


The Spirit “gives life” to our spirit which was dead in trespasses and sins, in which we have become “spiritually alive”.

The question remains; when does this occur?


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23


  • you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit


From my perspective it’s when we obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9




JLB
 

wondering

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Great topic.

Great scriptures.


Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:3-6


  • “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

  • that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


The Spirit “gives life” to our spirit which was dead in trespasses and sins, in which we have become “spiritually alive”.

The question remains; when does this occur?


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23


  • you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit


From my perspective it’s when we obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9




JLB
Must log off right now, but please answer this:

1. You said we become born of the spirit when we obey the gospel of Christ.

Does obedience alone save?

2. You said the spirit gives life...how?

P.S. What do you believe the water is in John 3:3?
 

JLB

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Is being justified the same as being born again?

We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Galatians 2:15-16

  • even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law;


Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1-2


  • having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,


So the question is, when we are justified (declared to be righteous) by faith, is this a reference to being born again, or is there something else that must take place?



JLB
 

JLB

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Must log off right now, but please answer this:

1. You said we become born of the spirit when we obey the gospel of Christ.

Does obedience alone save?

2. You said the spirit gives life...how?

P.S. What do you believe the water is in John 3:3?

1. Obedience is the component that makes faith alive and active, able to produce the intended divine result. Which in this case is salvation, ie justification.

2. First of all the Spirit is the means by which we are enabled or given the power or ability or grace to do what we could not do without it. Grace is the Holy Spirit; The Spirit of Grace.

Then once we obey the Gospel, by the Spirit, we are justified, made just as if we never sinned, in which the blood of Jesus is applied to us, and our sins are taken away. At that moment we are a new creation, sinless, So that we are joined to Christ as one spirit.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17

It is only when we are cleansed from sin, that we are joined to our Holy Lord, and are one spirit with Him.



JLB
 

JLB

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What do you believe the water is in John 3:3?

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:5-6

Jesus tells us in the next verse.

  • That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.



The water of the mother’s womb, which each person who is born of natural child birth dwells in and draws life from, before the mother gives birth to them.

In order to be born “again”, one first must be born.


Jesus is using “earthly things”, natural birth, to teach Nicodemus about “heavenly things”, spiritual birth.


If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? John 3:12








JLB
 

Reformed05

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We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Galatians 2:15-16

  • even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law;


Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1-2


  • having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,


So the question is, when we are justified (declared to be righteous) by faith, is this a reference to being born again, or is there something else that must take place?



JLB
W
IN MY OPINION! I always feel like I have to clarify that, not to you, but to some,(and I'm laughing!)
BBT. Justified is not a reference to born again, it is a result of being born again and happens at the same time, as does Faith. Being born again is believing in Christ, not just His existence, but who He actually is. The most common way of looking at this is that you make a choice for Jesus and then you are born again. And yes all those ways of saying it, that you mentioned, "born of God, " "of the Spirit"."from above" all mean born again. They are the same.

The other way of looking at it is that we never had anything to do with our first birth. We did not "born" ourselves (and we know who DID give us life) and we cannot born again ourselves. God has to do that too. So He gives us new life, a new heart and it has also been described as the Holy Spirit applying the work that Jesus did to us. And then we make that choice, after we have been reborn, and are justified. Right then.
Whichever way we look at it, we are reborn and justified, in Christ.
 

StoveBolts

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Hi Wondering, what a great topic! So rich and full of depth!

P.S. What do you believe the water is in John 3:6?
I understand that my view is a bit unusual, but I learned a few years ago that John writes in a popular Jewish form of first mention. It's really easy, when you catch key phrases you look for their first mention.

In this case, we see both Spirit and Water in Genesis 1:2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Here, we see Spiritual things as well as earthly things. Many try to separate the Spiritual from the Physical, yet they are always together in scripture.

Several chapters later, we see the earth covered with water once again.
Genesis 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

What role do you see the water performing in the days of Noah?
 

StoveBolts

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1. Obedience is the component that makes faith alive and active, able to produce the intended divine result. Which in this case is salvation, ie justification.

2. First of all the Spirit is the means by which we are enabled or given the power or ability or grace to do what we could not do without it. Grace is the Holy Spirit; The Spirit of Grace.
Amen Brother, well said.
We know that the Spirit convicts the world so that those in the world can repent.
John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
God gives the world the Holy Spirit to show his righteousness.

Romans 1:16-18 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 3:21-24 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
 

JLB

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Justified is not a reference to born again, it is a result of being born again and happens at the same time, as does Faith.
Faith is what we have when we hear the Gospel.

Being justified is the result of obeying what we hear, by which we received faith.


Basically you are saying being born again, faith and being justified happen at the same time, which I can agree with, if a person’s obedience response to the Gospel is immediate.


Being born again is believing in Christ, not just His existence, but who He actually is.
Being born again is the result of obeying the Gospel.



JLB
 

JLB

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IN MY OPINION! I always feel like I have to clarify that, not to you, but to some,(and I'm laughing!)
BBT. Justified is not a reference to born again, it is a result of being born again and happens at the same time, as does Faith. Being born again is believing in Christ, not just His existence, but who He actually is. The most common way of looking at this is that you make a choice for Jesus and then you are born again. And yes all those ways of saying it, that you mentioned, "born of God, " "of the Spirit"."from above" all mean born again. They are the same.

The other way of looking at it is that we never had anything to do with our first birth. We did not "born" ourselves (and we know who DID give us life) and we cannot born again ourselves. God has to do that too. So He gives us new life, a new heart and it has also been described as the Holy Spirit applying the work that Jesus did to us. And then we make that choice, after we have been reborn, and are justified. Right then.
Whichever way we look at it, we are reborn and justified, in Christ.
Thanks for your input.

I believe this is a good topic for all of us to be involved in.


JLB
 
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JLB

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More than likely being reborn in God’s image is far more marvelous and mysterious than I can comprehend in this lifetime.

Nevertheless we take from the scriptures and what the Spirit reveals to our heart, and start from there.

How amazing is our God?



JLB
 

Reformed05

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Faith is what we have when we hear the Gospel.

Being justified is the result of obeying what we hear, by which we received faith.


Basically you are saying being born again, faith and being justified happen at the same time, which I can agree with, if a person’s obedience response to the Gospel is immediate.




Being born again is the result of obeying the Gospel.



JLB
Just a slightly different take on it. My belief is that yes, obedience begins at conversion and is a fruit of conversion, and usually something is changed immediately, even if it is only a recognition of things we have been doing that don't please God, and a genuine desire to change those things. But becoming fully obedient is a lifelong endeavor. My belief on our being justified is that it is instant and permanent (no need to debate the permanent part as it is a forbidden topic), because our justification is a result of being in Christ, belonging to Him. It is the result of His righteousness being imputed to us through faith.
 

JLB

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My belief on our being justified is that it is instant and permanent (no need to debate the permanent part as it is a forbidden topic), because our justification is a result of being in Christ,
Yes, being in Christ.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Jesus taught us to remain in Him.


Here is how we are instructed to remain “in Christ”.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



Amen.




JLB
 

StoveBolts

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More than likely being reborn in God’s image is far more marvelous and mysterious than I can comprehend in this lifetime.

Nevertheless we take from the scriptures and what the Spirit reveals to our heart, and start from there.

How amazing is our God?



JLB
This is so true, for we serve an amazing God.

I was reminded of Joel in it's entirety. We all sin and are affected by sin. Honestly, it can suck the life out of us and cause us to be bitter and angry. But then God rescues us and gives us new life. Where despair once reigned, hope has conquered.

Joel 2:
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

God is moving in each of our lives as we have need and when I think of the work of His hand, like yourself, it is too marvelous to fully comprehend.
 

JLB

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It is the result of His righteousness being imputed to us through faith.

Yes His righteousness imputed to is through faith.

When we are born again, we stand before Him justified, as a new creation reborn in righteousness, and empowered with His Spirit to be able to do what we could never have done without it, which is walk according to the Spirit; ie practice righteousness.


Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7



JLB
 
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StoveBolts

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When we are born again, we stand before Him justified, as a new creation reborn in righteousness, and empowered with His Spirit to be able to do what we could never have done without it, which is walk according to the Spirit; ie practice righteousness.
Amen and we'll said.

Romans 11:30-33 English Standard Version (ESV)
30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now[a] receive mercy. 32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

33 Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways
 

wondering

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We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
Galatians 2:15-16

  • even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law;


Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1-2


  • having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,


So the question is, when we are justified (declared to be righteous) by faith, is this a reference to being born again, or is there something else that must take place?



JLB
Very good question!
You asked: When we are justified does it refer to being born again or is there something else that must take place.

Justification requires ONLY belief in God and so we are saved by His grace through our faith in Him.

There is nothing we can do and no work we can perform to gain admittance into the Kingdom of God here on earth or after.

But now comes the clincher: IMMEDIATELY after justification we go into the sanctification stage of our walk with God.

In order to become sanctified more and more since this is a life-long procedure....we must obey God, learn from His teachings, and remain a branch in the vine which is Christ.

1 Peter 1:2
2according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
 

wondering

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1. Obedience is the component that makes faith alive and active, able to produce the intended divine result. Which in this case is salvation, ie justification.

2. First of all the Spirit is the means by which we are enabled or given the power or ability or grace to do what we could not do without it. Grace is the Holy Spirit; The Spirit of Grace.

Then once we obey the Gospel, by the Spirit, we are justified, made just as if we never sinned, in which the blood of Jesus is applied to us, and our sins are taken away. At that moment we are a new creation, sinless, So that we are joined to Christ as one spirit.

But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
1 Corinthians 6:17

It is only when we are cleansed from sin, that we are joined to our Holy Lord, and are one spirit with Him.



JLB
Agreed.
To simplify I'd say that when we come to believe in Christ through our faith in Him....we are cleansed of our sins and with the help of the Holy Spirit we are joined to Christ and are helped to reject sin.

Galatians 5:17-18
17For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please.
18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.


We are not under the law:
We are not forced to follow the law...
but the Holy Spirit helps us to WANT to follow the law...this is being under grace and not being under the law.
 

wondering

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Hi Wondering, what a great topic! So rich and full of depth!



I understand that my view is a bit unusual, but I learned a few years ago that John writes in a popular Jewish form of first mention. It's really easy, when you catch key phrases you look for their first mention.

In this case, we see both Spirit and Water in Genesis 1:2 And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Here, we see Spiritual things as well as earthly things. Many try to separate the Spiritual from the Physical, yet they are always together in scripture.

Several chapters later, we see the earth covered with water once again.
Genesis 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

What role do you see the water performing in the days of Noah?
At the time of Noah, the water caused everything to die.
In Genesis 1 God removes the water and creates land...He divides.
Then God saves Noah and his family and uses water to end the earth.

The ark represents Jesus...the ark was the salvation of Noah and his family.

We might also say that God used the water to cleanse the earth...to start over again.

This water is also spoken of when discussing baptism.
Ditto for the Red Sea. Water is found throughout the bible.
 

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