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JLB

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Firstly, 'the personal application' is not interpretation.

Did you understand the part of my post about how God can make scripture a “rhema” word for us.

IOW God speaks to us through scripture.


Are you familiar with this?



JLB
 

JLB

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JLB,

I think you've missed some aspects of biblical interpretation. Firstly, 'the personal application' is not interpretation. It is application of the exposition of Scripture to one's own life, the church's life, or the life of the nation.

What about:
  1. Contextual interpretation, which examines the grammatical context instead of cherry-picking verses.
  2. Grammatical interpretation, which deals with the grammar and syntax of a passage.
  3. Historical interpretation, which recognises the importance of particular historical happenings that influence a passage of Scripture. Imagine trying to interpret the Book of Obadiah without the historical view that this involved conflict between Edom and the house of Jacob. Could we know the kind of crucifixion Jesus experienced without understanding the history of Roman crucifixion?
  4. Cultural interpretation, which seeks to understand the cultural influence on Scripture. In Scripture, we need to note the way of life (culture) of the Egyptians, Palestinians, and Greeks. These are not abstract ideas but specifics that deal with the idolatry, sorcery and other forms of worship of the living God.
Oz
Could you point out which one of these three facets of interpretation you disagree with in the following example.


  • The direct interpretation:

The literal understanding of what the passage is saying.

Example: The Passover lamb.

A literal lamb was slain and roasted and eaten as the Lord commanded Moses concerning the children of Israel.


  • The prophetic implication:

The Passover lamb prophetically pointed to Christ as the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world.



  • The personal application:


This is where the Lord speaks to us through the word, and it becomes a “rhema” word that God is saying to us, that we personally apply to our lives in that moment.

Concerning the exodus and the Passover, the Lord May be showing us He is about to deliver us out of a hard place we are in and to follow carefully the specific instructions His Spirit is giving us.



JLB
 

OzSpen

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Did you understand the part of my post about how God can make scripture a “rhema” word for us.

IOW God speaks to us through scripture.

Are you familiar with this?

JLB
JLB,

Of course I know about the 'rhema', which by the way is interchangeable with 'logos', and have written about it: The Rhema Barb and Its Poison: The Rhema vs. Logos Controversy.

God speaking through Scripture by personal application is not interpreting the biblical text, it is making personal application of what the text states.

However, one has to know how to properly interpret the biblical text. Otherwise, we get a 'rhema' that can be out of whack with the biblical teaching.

By the way, you didn't address what I wrote in #160.

Oz
 

JLB

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JLB,

Of course I know about the 'rhema', which by the way is interchangeable with 'logos', and have written about it: The Rhema Barb and Its Poison: The Rhema vs. Logos Controversy.

God speaking through Scripture by personal application is not interpreting the biblical text, it is making personal application of what the text states.

However, one has to know how to properly interpret the biblical text. Otherwise, we get a 'rhema' that can be out of whack with the biblical teaching.

By the way, you didn't address what I wrote in #160.

Oz

Post # 161 & #162 is me addressing your post # 160.


So again I ask you -


Could you point out which one of these three facets of interpretation you disagree with in the following example.


  • The direct interpretation:

The literal understanding of what the passage is saying.

Example: The Passover lamb.

A literal lamb was slain and roasted and eaten as the Lord commanded Moses concerning the children of Israel.


  • The prophetic implication:

The Passover lamb prophetically pointed to Christ as the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world.



  • The personal application:


This is where the Lord speaks to us through the word, and it becomes a “rhema” word that God is saying to us, that we personally apply to our lives in that moment.

Concerning the exodus and the Passover, the Lord May be showing us He is about to deliver us out of a hard place we are in and to follow carefully the specific instructions His Spirit is giving us.



JLB
 

OzSpen

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Could you point out which one of these three facets of interpretation you disagree with in the following example.
  • The direct interpretation:
The literal understanding of what the passage is saying.

Example: The Passover lamb.

A literal lamb was slain and roasted and eaten as the Lord commanded Moses concerning the children of Israel.

  • The prophetic implication:
The Passover lamb prophetically pointed to Christ as the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world.

  • The personal application:
This is where the Lord speaks to us through the word, and it becomes a “rhema” word that God is saying to us, that we personally apply to our lives in that moment.

Concerning the exodus and the Passover, the Lord May be showing us He is about to deliver us out of a hard place we are in and to follow carefully the specific instructions His Spirit is giving us.
JLB
JLB,

I support literal interpretation (what you called direct interpretation) as long as it includes figures of speech, parables, symbols, etc that are indicated as such.

"Prophetic implication" is not the language I would use. I'd call it prophetic interpretation that is understood because of NT fulfillment.

"’The New Testament establishes a relationship between this prototypical Passover lamb and the consummate Passover Lamb, Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 5:7). The prophet John the Baptist recognized Jesus as “the Lamb of God” (John 1:29), and the apostle Peter links the lamb without defect (Exodus 12:5) with Christ, whom he calls a “lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:19). Jesus is qualified to be called One “without blemish” because His life was completely free from sin (Hebrews 4:15). In Revelation, John the apostle sees Jesus as “a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain” (Revelation 5:6). Jesus was crucified during the time that the Passover was observed (Mark 14:12)’ [What is the Passover lamb? Got Questions?)​

I do not agree with the example you've given of 'the personal application'.

"This is where the Lord speaks to us through the word, and it becomes a “rhema” word that God is saying to us, that we personally apply to our lives in that moment.​

Concerning the exodus and the Passover, the Lord May be showing us He is about to deliver us out of a hard place we are in and to follow carefully the specific instructions His Spirit is giving us".​

The last paragraph is allegorical interpretation that adds material that is not in the text. Nowhere does the text indicate that the Passover can be applied to present difficult circumstances.

I've seen some very sad experiences come out of this kind of allegorical interpretation when Scripture is made to say what is not in the text. This 'rhema' word of healing of cancer in a local church led to chaos in the church and among Christians because the person died, even though a 'rhema' word had been received that he would live.

I do not accept this theology as supporting biblical revelation.

Oz
 

JLB

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I do not agree with the example you've given of 'the personal application'.

"This is where the Lord speaks to us through the word, and it becomes a “rhema” word that God is saying to us, that we personally apply to our lives in that moment.

Ok, how about the other two examples I gave?


Do you agree with them?



JLB
 

OzSpen

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Post # 161 & #162 is me addressing your post # 160.


JLB
JLB,

No you didn't. You didn't address this from #160:

  1. Contextual interpretation, which examines the grammatical context instead of cherry-picking verses.
  2. Grammatical interpretation, which deals with the grammar and syntax of a passage.
  3. Historical interpretation, which recognises the importance of particular historical happenings that influence a passage of Scripture. Imagine trying to interpret the Book of Obadiah without the historical view that this involved conflict between Edom and the house of Jacob. Could we know the kind of crucifixion Jesus experienced without understanding the history of Roman crucifixion?
  4. Cultural interpretation, which seeks to understand the cultural influence on Scripture. In Scripture, we need to note the way of life (culture) of the Egyptians, Palestinians, and Greeks. These are not abstract ideas but specifics that deal with the idolatry, sorcery and other forms of worship of the living God.
Oz
 

JLB

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I've seen some very sad experiences come out of this kind of allegorical interpretation when Scripture is made to say what is not in the text.

I have too.

Never the less, it doesn’t mean the Holy Spirit can not speak to us through the scriptures, just because others may have not gotten it right.



JLB
 

JLB

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JLB,

No you didn't. You didn't address this from #160:

  1. Contextual interpretation, which examines the grammatical context instead of cherry-picking verses.
  2. Grammatical interpretation, which deals with the grammar and syntax of a passage.
  3. Historical interpretation, which recognises the importance of particular historical happenings that influence a passage of Scripture. Imagine trying to interpret the Book of Obadiah without the historical view that this involved conflict between Edom and the house of Jacob. Could we know the kind of crucifixion Jesus experienced without understanding the history of Roman crucifixion?
  4. Cultural interpretation, which seeks to understand the cultural influence on Scripture. In Scripture, we need to note the way of life (culture) of the Egyptians, Palestinians, and Greeks. These are not abstract ideas but specifics that deal with the idolatry, sorcery and other forms of worship of the living God.
Oz

Do you have a specific question you would like to ask?



JLB
 

OzSpen

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I have too.

Never the less, it doesn’t mean the Holy Spirit can not speak to us through the scriptures, just because others may have not gotten it right.

JLB
JLB,

When the 'Holy Spirit' is supposed to give a 'rhema' word, based on Scripture, and it's in error, who takes the blame?

I cannot find this 'rhema' approach to personal revelation in the Bible.

Oz
 

JLB

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JLB,

No you didn't. You didn't address this from #160:

  1. Contextual interpretation, which examines the grammatical context instead of cherry-picking verses.
  2. Grammatical interpretation, which deals with the grammar and syntax of a passage.
  3. Historical interpretation, which recognises the importance of particular historical happenings that influence a passage of Scripture. Imagine trying to interpret the Book of Obadiah without the historical view that this involved conflict between Edom and the house of Jacob. Could we know the kind of crucifixion Jesus experienced without understanding the history of Roman crucifixion?
  4. Cultural interpretation, which seeks to understand the cultural influence on Scripture. In Scripture, we need to note the way of life (culture) of the Egyptians, Palestinians, and Greeks. These are not abstract ideas but specifics that deal with the idolatry, sorcery and other forms of worship of the living God.
Oz

The direct interpretation, which is the literal understanding of a text, is derived from the contextual framework of the passage, which includes the grammatical, historical and cultural context of the text.


IOW, everything you listed is HOW the direct interpretation is arrived at.



JLB
 

JLB

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JLB,

When the 'Holy Spirit' is supposed to give a 'rhema' word, based on Scripture, and it's in error, who takes the blame?

I cannot find this 'rhema' approach to personal revelation in the Bible.

Oz

Ok. If you don’t believe God speaks to us through His word, then so be it, brother.



JLB
 

JLB

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Why must you do this when you refuse to answer what I wrote?
I don’t know what you expect me to say about your post.

If you ask me a specific question I will answer it.
 

JLB

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Why must you do this when you refuse to answer what I wrote?

Here is me addressing your post - again


The direct interpretation, which is the literal understanding of a text, is derived from the contextual framework of the passage, which includes the grammatical, historical and cultural context of the text.


IOW, everything you listed is HOW the direct interpretation is arrived at.



JLB
 

ezra

 
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there does have to be some guidelines in place but the forum can be tos to death . mods have a place to keep things in order . if the thread goes off track close it keep it closed . it takes two not one chastise one chastise both .
 

StoveBolts

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there does have to be some guidelines in place but the forum can be tos to death . mods have a place to keep things in order . if the thread goes off track close it keep it closed . it takes two not one chastise one chastise both .
Yup, and we don't want a tos that's 3 pages long... As far as closing threads, that doesn't work and the mods end up being the police. Our Mods will not take on the thankless role of police man, and the "point", it doesn't really work either.
 

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