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Bible Study Obeying the Lord Jesus Christ is legalism?

Is obeying the Lord Jesus Christ legalism?

  • Yes it’s legalism. We are saved by grace.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    12

JLB

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And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9


Some people claim that obeying the Lord Jesus Christ is legalism.


What do you guys believe?



JLB




PS: Please, this is not a debate. Just state your answer and please include a scripture.
 

JLB

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Personally I believe the Lord inspires us, or moves upon us, or leads us, to express His Life through us to others in acts or expressions of love.


To me this is faith expressing itself through love.
(I’m using the NIV, on this one: Don’t really use it much)


For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. Galatians 5:6 NIV

  • The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.


We can do this, because it’s His love in us, His Life in us, His Spirit in us, His grace in us, that is the source.


When we are led to walk, that is to say, live our life, according to the Spirit, then there is a yielding on our part, to comply or obey His Spirit in these things.

This is the work of being fruitful, reproducing His Life, His love, His grace, through ours.


This can only be done by remaining in Him.


Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
John 15:4-5




JLB
 
Last edited:

WIP

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I voted "Other" because I believe another answer is No, obeying the Lord is our response to salvation. We love the Lord and, therefore, our desire is to keep His commandments.

Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me." John 14:23-24 NKJV
 

wondering

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These were the two questions:
  • Yes it’s legalism. We are saved by grace.

  • No, obeying the Lord is how we are saved, and how we remain “in Christ”.





    Of course, no. 1 is correct in that we are saved by grace. If we obey God by doing many good works but do not really BELIEVE in God or love Him in some way that we understand personally,,,then our works will not save us. I tend to go to John 3:3,5...we cannot be saved unless we are born again.

BUT...number 2 is also right!
By obeying the Lord and responding to the call of God for every man to be saved....we become saved.

Also, AFTER we are saved we are required to obey God. Why?
Because before we're saved, it matters not if we obey or not...one cannot be anymore lost than lost. But after we become saved, we must obey God to REMAIN saved.

Some will reply that this is the same as believing that we are saved by works...but this is not my understanding. For this I go to
Johh 3:18
18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


IOW, he who does not believe in Jesus is ALREADY JUDGED, because he has not BELIEVED. He who believes in Jesus is not judged anymore because he has been saved by believing.

JLB stole my thunder because John 15:4-6 is my favorite scripture for the teaching of Jesus that we must REMAIN IN HIM, or abide in Him, in order that we may not be thrown away as a dead branch.

What does it mean to abide in Him?
To live as Jesus taught....
To change the world in our little ways by spreading His love to others.

This is doing HIS WILL,,,
doing HIS WORKS/DEEDS.

IF, we are not obeying then there is a problem with our discipleship.
 

JLB

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I voted "Other" because I believe another answer is No, obeying the Lord is our response to salvation. We love the Lord and, therefore, our desire is to keep His commandments.

Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me." John 14:23-24 NKJV

Yes we obey the Lord after we are born again.


However, we must obey the Gospel in order to be born again.

We are able to obey the Gospel, by (power of) the Spirit.

Us doing the activity of obeying, with the help of the Spirit;
The Spirit of grace.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23


  • Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit...having been born again, not of corruptible seed


The command of the Gospel is Repent.

Repent, in context of the Gospel, means turn to God in submission to Him as Lord.

The way we obey this command to repent, is to confess Jesus Christ as Lord.


For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10


  • mouth confession is made unto salvation.



JLB
 

JLB

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What does it mean to abide in Him?
It means to remain in Him.


Here is “how” we are instructed to “remain” in Him.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


  • he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.



JLB
 

JLB

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These were the two questions:
  • Yes it’s legalism. We are saved by grace.

  • No, obeying the Lord is how we are saved, and how we remain “in Christ”.





    Of course, no. 1 is correct in that we are saved by grace. If we obey God by doing many good works but do not really BELIEVE in God or love Him in some way that we understand personally,,,then our works will not save us. I tend to go to John 3:3,5...we cannot be saved unless we are born again.

BUT...number 2 is also right!
By obeying the Lord and responding to the call of God for every man to be saved....we become saved.

Also, AFTER we are saved we are required to obey God. Why?
Because before we're saved, it matters not if we obey or not...one cannot be anymore lost than lost. But after we become saved, we must obey God to REMAIN saved.

Some will reply that this is the same as believing that we are saved by works...but this is not my understanding. For this I go to
Johh 3:18
18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


IOW, he who does not believe in Jesus is ALREADY JUDGED, because he has not BELIEVED. He who believes in Jesus is not judged anymore because he has been saved by believing.

JLB stole my thunder because John 15:4-6 is my favorite scripture for the teaching of Jesus that we must REMAIN IN HIM, or abide in Him, in order that we may not be thrown away as a dead branch.

What does it mean to abide in Him?
To live as Jesus taught....
To change the world in our little ways by spreading His love to others.

This is doing HIS WILL,,,
doing HIS WORKS/DEEDS.

IF, we are not obeying then there is a problem with our discipleship.

I like the way you think.
 

StoveBolts

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1 John 4:7-11
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

It's been a journey for me. I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and was baptized because I realized just how much God loved me (John 3:16). I didn't know how to even love myself back then, but with the promise that he would never leave or forsake me, just knowing that God loved me was enough for me to want to know him.

As the years progressed, I tasted the goodness of Christ and fell in love with God. But I left my first love because my relationship turned mechanical and my view of God changed from one of relationship, to one of doctrine which resulted in rules. Instead of repenting because I trusted God and desired to please him, I became legalistic and self-righteous and felt my good works in Christ merited Gods blessings upon me and my family. Then tragedy struck and my house of cards came crumbling down.

It's about love... All of it, including salvation.

10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

We obey God not because we are earning our salvation, but because we understand just how much God loves us, and because we want to be just like Him.
 

JLB

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These were the two questions:
  • Yes it’s legalism. We are saved by grace.

  • No, obeying the Lord is how we are saved, and how we remain “in Christ”.

Actually those are the two answers.
 

JLB

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1 John 4:7-11
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

It's been a journey for me. I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and was baptized because I realized just how much God loved me (John 3:16). I didn't know how to even love myself back then, but with the promise that he would never leave or forsake me, just knowing that God loved me was enough for me to want to know him.

As the years progressed, I tasted the goodness of Christ and fell in love with God. But I left my first love because my relationship turned mechanical and my view of God changed from one of relationship, to one of doctrine which resulted in rules. Instead of repenting because I trusted God and desired to please him, I became legalistic and self-righteous and felt my good works in Christ merited Gods blessings upon me and my family. Then tragedy struck and my house of cards came crumbling down.

It's about love... All of it, including salvation.

10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

We obey God not because we are earning our salvation, but because we understand just how much God loves us, and because we want to be just like Him.

I can’t love without Him in me, working through me to express His love.

:nono
 

JLB

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We obey God not because we are earning our salvation, but because we understand just how much God loves us, and because we want to be just like Him.

Think of keeping His commandments (obeying Him) as love, rather than a legal set of rules.

Loving Him
Loving our neighbor


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


Again, I can’t do this without His grace, without His Spirit working in me.




JLB
 

StoveBolts

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Think of keeping His commandments (obeying Him) as love, rather than a legal set of rules.

Loving Him
Loving our neighbor


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


Again, I can’t do this without His grace, without His Spirit working in me.




JLB
Absolutely, so why the wagging finger?
 

JLB

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Your wagging a finger at me... Explain what you thought you heard me say.

Not at you.


I’m wagging the finger at my statement saying no way can I do it without Him.



JLB
 

StoveBolts

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Not at you.


I’m wagging the finger at my statement saying no way can I do it without Him.



JLB
Ahhh, got it! I completely misunderstood that wag lol!

I liked what John says in the beginning of chapter 4, and it made me think of how the Holy Spirit works in the lives of unbelievers to draw them near our Lord. (John 16:8).

This shows me how God pursues us with His Holy Spirit not to condemn us, but to offer salvation even before we are born again. If God didn't pursue us, we would never have the opportunity to be called His children.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Nobody could do it without Him. :)
 

JLB

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Ahhh, got it! I completely misunderstood that wag lol!

I liked what John says in the beginning of chapter 4, and it made me think of how the Holy Spirit works in the lives of unbelievers to draw them near our Lord. (John 16:8).

This shows me how God pursues us with His Holy Spirit, even before we are born again. If God didn't pursue us, we would never have the opportunity to be called His children.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Nobody could do it without Him. :)

Probably best for me not to use the little emoji things.


Sorry.
 

StoveBolts

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JLB
Now that I feel like im really getting to know you, I look back and wonder how many other times I've misunderstood you. I'm sure I have so in like manner, im sorry.
 

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