Bible Study Obeying the Lord Jesus Christ is legalism?

[JLB]

God requires obedience and in Adam we all failed, We must have the righteousness of God to come into HIS presence and that requires something WE CANNOT DO!
Jesus came and Paid that debt, it is a free gift and offered by God's Grace.
This is the starting point NOT THE DESTINATION

Amen the starting point.

 

[WIP]

So then I'll ask a simple question:
Is it necessary to obey God after salvation?

I'd say it is necessary as we will be compelled to do so by our conviction or out of love. Does that make sense?

 

[JLB]

There are TWO subjects here we need to be careful to be clear which one we are discussing or people will get confused and argue over something we all agree on if we keep the meaning clear.

Amen.

You are hitting on both and defining them.

Awesome.


The two points I am referring to come from the poll.

• No, obeying the Lord is how we are saved, and how we remain “in Christ”.
  
  

There is initial salvation which refers to being born again, regenerated in which we are in Christ, and are made to drink of the same Spirit.


Then there is receiving the salvation of our soul, or inheriting the kingdom of God, inheriting eternal life, which is the end of our faith.




JLB

 

[stovebolts]

This is so true.

If you look at the biblical words and terms thread, under the word “believe”, there is an element of obeying in the original Greek word for believe.

Actually different versions use believe and obey interchangeably.

Disobedience is also rendered Unbelief.


So if we say we believe the Gospel, but don’t “repent”, which is to confess Jesus as Lord, then our believing we s no better than that of demons.

IOW, True biblical believing leads to obeying.



JLB

Good point and thanks for the nuance within the Greek. Makes perfect since.

 

[stovebolts]

Easier said than done.


JLB

Yes it is. I think it's a matter of faith and honestly, im glad God has patience and is long-suffering while always hoping the best and keeping no wrongs against me.

 

[GodsGrace]

[/QUOTE]

Easier said than done.


JLB

Not really.
I depends on how we understand what it means to love our enemy.
Do I love them as I would my son? No.
My husband? No.
A dear friend? No.

The above are feelings of love of affections and/or more.
The love Jesus was speaking of is a love we can all show to others.
It's a love of the will....we do NOT hate...we will good on the person.

Instead of explaining further; I'm just going to post what the word love means in Matthew 5:43-47 from a Greek Lexicon....one of the few times it's come in handy...

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 25: ἀγαπάω

ἀγαπάω, (ῶ; (imperfect ἠγάπων); future ἀγαπήσω; 1 aorist ἠγάπησα; perfect active (1 person plural ἠγαπήκαμεν, 1 John 4:10 WH text), participle ἠγαπηκῶς (2 Timothy 4:8); passive (present ἀγαπῶμαι); perfect participle ἠγαπημένος; 1 future ἀγαπηθήσομαι; (akin to ἄγαμαι (Fick, Part 4:12; see ἀγαθός, at the beginning)); to love, to be full of good-will and exhibit the same: Luke 7:47; 1 John 4:7f; with the accusative of the person, to have a preference for, wish well to, regard the welfare of: Matthew 5:43ff; Matthew 19:19; Luke 7:5; John 11:5; Romans 13:8; 2 Corinthians 11:11; 2 Corinthians 12:15; Galatians 5:14; Ephesians 5:25, 28; 1 Peter 1:22, and elsewhere; used often in the First Epistle of John of the love of Christians toward one another; of the benevolence which God, in providing salvation for men, has exhibited by sending his Son ......

​

25. agapaó ►

​

Strong's Concordance agapaó: to love​ Original Word: ἀγαπάω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: agapaó Phonetic Spelling: (ag-ap-ah'-o) Definition: to love Usage: I love, wish well to, take pleasure in, long for; denotes the love of reason, esteem. HELPS Word-studies Cognate: 25 agapáō – properly, to prefer, to love; for the believer, preferring to "live through Christ" (1 Jn 4:9,10), i.e. embracing God's will (choosing His choices) and obeying them through His power. 25 (agapáō) preeminently refers to what God prefers as He "is love" (1 Jn 4:8,16). See 26 (agapē). With the believer, 25 /agapáō ("to love") means actively doing what the Lord prefers, with Him (by His power and direction). True 25 /agapáō ("loving") is always defined by God – a "discriminating affection which involves choice and selection" (WS, 477). 1 Jn 4:8,16,17 for example convey how loving ("preferring," 25 /agapáō) is Christ living His life through the believer.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'd say it is necessary as we will be compelled to do so by our conviction or out of love. Does that make sense?

I'd stop at IT IS NECESSARY.
But many like to tack on the love part...which is not wrong; it just puts a condition on the obedience and I don't think there should be any condition.

If someone is mad at God, for whatever reason, is it then OK to go out and party hardy or does one still obey God knowing that this feeling will soon pass and in the meantime has fallen out of the grace of God. Must that person wait to FEEL the love for God in order to begin obeying Him again?

Jesus said IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WILL OBEY MY COMMANDMENTS...
What kind of love?
The kind we feel at the moment or the kind that is deep down and creates the core of our being?

If it's the second kind of love,,,then we obey God even if we're mad at Him and feel no emotion of love at all.

 

[JLB]

Here are my scriptures to validate my choice in the poll, which says -

• No, obeying the Lord is how we are saved, and how we remain “in Christ”.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9


Obeying the Gospel.


For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17


Obeying His Commandments -

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5


Obeying His Doctrine -


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



How we remain “in Christ” -


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

I selected Other as legalism exist when people attempt to secure righteousness in God's sight by good works.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

 

[JLB]

I selected Other as legalism exist when people attempt to secure righteousness in God's sight by good works.

Righteousness is secured by obeying God, which is what the Bible calls doing good.

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,

When we obey the Lord, it is always for doing good.

This is the righteousness according to faith.

By Faith means, God spoke to someone and they did what He said.

What also comes along with faith from God is grace; the power or ability to do what He says.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them

This scripture is referring to initial salvation.


JLB

 

[JLB]

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works

The “works” being illustrated is obedience to what God speaks to us, by which we receive faith.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar. James 2:21

The “work” or action Abraham did was to obey what God said, which was to offer his son on the altar.


Abraham received faith when God told him to offer his son Isaac on the altar.


Abraham was (justified) declared to be righteous when he followed through with what God told him to do.


Righteousness is secured only by obeying God.


Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

This scripture is referring to initial salvation.


JLB

I agree, but it also says we are created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. It is by obedience to God that the works we do are the works of the Lord who works through us as we let the light of Christ shine through us. Good works are connected to salvation through faith that is God's free gift of grace, but many try to work for something that is already free.

 

[for_his_glory]

The “works” being illustrated is obedience to what God speaks to us, by which we receive faith.


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar. James 2:21

The “work” or action Abraham did was to obey what God said, which was to offer his son on the altar.


Abraham received faith when God told him to offer his son Isaac on the altar.


Abraham was (justified) declared to be righteous when he followed through with what God told him to do.


Righteousness is secured only by obeying God.


Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7


JLB

Yes, it's all about being obedient to what God tells us to do.

 

[SkyWriting]

Some people claim that obeying the Lord Jesus Christ is legalism.

I don't "obey" Jesus, I follow His lead.

I "obey" the Holy Spirits lead.

Jeremiah 31:33
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't "obey" Jesus, I follow His lead.

I "obey" the Holy Spirits lead.

Jeremiah 31:33
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Hi SW,
I'd say that obeying Jesus and following His lead is the same.
Jesus did what God would do (since He was God on earth)
and if we do what God would do, it certainly is obeying.

Some dislike the word obey these days....
But, yeah, I think it's the same.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that we need to be disciples of Jesus...a disciple follows His teacher.

 

[GodsGrace]

I selected Other as legalism exist when people attempt to secure righteousness in God's sight by good works.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

Good post...you covered everything;
both initial salvation and on-going salvation.

Works without faith are of no value.
Faith without works is a dead and useless faith. (James)

 

[JLB]

I don't "obey" Jesus, I follow His lead.

I "obey" the Holy Spirits lead.

Jeremiah 31:33
But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Welcome to the Forum.

Thanks for sharing and using scripture.

The same Lord who spoke through the mouth of Jeremiah, foretelling of a New Covenant, now dwells within us who believe.


You don’t obey the Spirit of Christ, who dwells within you?


But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Romans 8:9-10

• if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.
• Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
• And if Christ is in you,

Somehow, I don’t think that’s exactly what you meant to say.


Could you clarify it a little.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Works without faith are of no value.

Amen. Well said.



JLB

 

[JLB]

I'd say that obeying Jesus and following His lead is the same.

I would have to agree.

If we don’t obey His voice to follow (be led) where He leads, then we could become lost.


My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28




JLB