Bible Study Obeying the Lord Jesus Christ is legalism?

[JLB]

I'm not sure how much of our salvation is dependent on being obedient or whether it's out of Love for Jesus and God,

Actually you are making a good point.

Obeying the Lord is how we express our love for Him.


“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15

again


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


JLB

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I don’t believe obeying the Lord is legalism.

I gave it as a possible answer, because some folks believe that it is.


Thanks for your input.

You always seem to have good thought provoking threads.

You are also very kind, in the way you relate.

Your a good example for all of us to follow.

God bless you.



JLB

Thanks, and God bless you for the same as above, and for the work of faith in helping us also.

Love always, Walter

 

[JLB]

This is a repost.

These are the scriptures from where my answer came from which says ....

Obeying the Lord is how we are saved and how we remain in Christ.



And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Hebrews 5:9



Obeying the Gospel.


For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17


Obeying His Commandments -

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 1 John 2:4-5


Obeying His Doctrine -


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9



How we remain “in Christ” -


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JLB

 

[WIP]

Shouldn't belief and obedience go hand-in-hand? It just seems to make sense, to me anyway, that when we really understand who God is and believe in Him, obedience would be the next natural step.

On the other hand, Adam knew who God was and believed and yet disobeyed.

Hmm....

 

[JLB]

Shouldn't belief and obedience go hand-in-hand?

Excellent Point!

Yes believe carries the idea of obedience.

Actually believe and obey, as well as unbelief and disobedience are used interchangeably in the scriptures and are the same Greek word.


Example: #1


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NKJV


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB


Example: # 2



Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV



Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Hebrews 4:6 KJV



The way I see it, if we believe Jesus is Lord, but don’t obey Him as Lord, then our believing isn’t any better that the demons.


They believe, and fear and tremble, but they still obey Satan.


Just my two cents.



JLB

 

[JLB]

On the other hand, Adam knew who God was and believed and yet disobeyed.

Hmm....

There’s a lot going on there with that subject, and would make for an interesting thread by itself.




JLB

 

[SkyWriting]

Somehow, I don’t think that’s exactly what you meant to say.
Could you clarify it a little.

I'm good with my comments.

 

[Shekinahglory]

Some people claim that obeying the Lord Jesus Christ is legalism.

27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of works? No, but
on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ep. 2

Obeying Christ through Love is not legalism. But how can we claim to be following Christ when the call to live by the scope of the Beatitudes is mostly disannulled and the people return to the written Law.

What do you guys believe?

Romans 13 New International Version (NIV)
Submission to Governing Authorities
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.


6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Love Fulfills the Law
8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”[a] and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”[b] 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

The Day Is Near
11 And do this, understanding the present time: The hour has already come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12 The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh

 

[JLB]

shekinahglory said
Obeying Christ through Love is not legalism. But how can we claim to be following Christ when the call to live by the scope of the Beatitudes is mostly disannulled and the people return to the written Law.

Can you please explain what you mean by “the scope of the Beatitudes is mostly disannulled” ?




Thanks JLB

 

[JLB]

I'm good with my comments.

I don't "obey" Jesus, I follow His lead.

I "obey" the Holy Spirits lead.

What is the difference in obeying the Holy Spirit’s lead and obeying Jesus?


Could you clarify?


Here is a promise from the Lord, that is contingent upon meeting the condition He set forth.


Some folks only read this part -

• they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28


The Condition -

• My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

Hearing and obeying that results in following Him.

If His sheep do not hear and obey His lead, they run the risk of becoming lost.

Are you familiar with the prodigal son, or the parable of the lost sheep?


The Promise of meeting the Condition -

• And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9






JLB

 

[Randy]

While I suppose fear of the lord is healthy I believe "LOVE" is the stronger motivator.

If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

Not legalism but LOVE.
“If you love me, keep my commands.

I follow Jesus out of love not law. He is the good Shepard who loves the sheep. (me)

Jesus submitted to the Fathers will prompted by His Love for the Father.

 

[Serving Zion]

I think the problem of legalism can be found in the reason for obedience. Where the law is a means for cursing "cursed is the one who does not keep all these commandments", and "sin took an opportunity through the commandment, and through it, killed me". A person who is exercising legalism (as they can be of a legalistic mind even while basing their religion upon the Christian scriptures), it is by fear that they are driven.

A legalist is compelled by their fear of being cursed unless they obey. 1 John 4:18 "There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives fear out, for fear is of punishment". So we who are made free in new life, obey because we are compelled by love rather than fear. If we should stumble, we are not brought to repentance by the threat of punishment, but rather The Holy Spirit is grieved and so we resolve to repent because we would rather know God's pleasure (Proverbs 27:11, Hebrews 10:38).

Romans 8:1-2,34

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and death. Who is the one who condemns? It is Christ, who died, and moreover was raised, and is now at the right hand of God and who also intercedes for us.

 

[Brock]

We believe that # 2 would be our answer according to: Obeying the Lord is how we are saved, and how we remain in Christ. Ephesians 2:8

Love always, Walter

Excuse me if I’m wrong but doesn’t the verse you quoted contradict what you are saying? You said, we are saved by obeying the Lord. Do mean obeying the Lord in the sense of this passage? John 6:40

 

[SkyWriting]

Hnd having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9
JLB

The big problem I've seen is the legalism of people explaining to me what they feel is a command from the scriptures, what they believe Jesus wants me to do. But it's really just what they have on their mind at the moment. Often about abortion.

Jeremiah 31:31
“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts.

 

[SkyWriting]

“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3

And the reason for that is we are no longer burdened with writings on paper or stone, because the law of love is now in our hearts by way of the Holy Spirit.

 

[JLB]

Not legalism but LOVE.
“If you love me, keep my commands.

Amen.

 

[JLB]

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1



JLB

 

[JLB]

And the reason for that is we are no longer burdened with writings on paper or stone, because the law of love is now in our hearts by way of the Holy Spirit.

What is the law of love, if not His commandments?


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3



JLB

 

[Serving Zion]

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1



JLB

That is good attention to detail! (I assume you had noticed that half of the verse is missing). I'm not sure how they have decided to do that, it is only what I have copy/pasted from online.

I am forced to wonder though, just how critical it is. I'm interested to know your thoughts too. Would you say that someone who walks according to the flesh and not the spirit, is in fact abiding in Christ? I ask specifically because we know there are some people who are of a Christian faith, who in fact do walk according to the flesh and not the spirit.

Is it right that we should say that they are in Christ when they are walking according to the flesh and not the spirit? (remember James 4 says they are adulteresses).

 

[JLB]

Would you say that someone who walks according to the flesh and not the spirit, is in fact abiding in Christ?

I would say no.

Here is how we are instructed to abide in Christ -


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


Walking according to the flesh would be polar opposite of keeping His commandments.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

• For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

JLB