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On why being a good person is not enough

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Bishop Barron explains the importance of experiencing Liturgy. Liturgy of the Word. Liturgy of the Eucharist. It keeps us on track. He fears Catholics may have stopped going to Mass during covid.
It is not enough to be a good person in this life. We need to go to Mass.
 
It is not enough to be a good person in this life

How do you define ' good person ' ?
Romans 3:23-25 makes it clear ' All have sinned' , that is every person who has, is or will live with the exception of Jesus, is a sinner and cannot be categorised as ' good '. The verses go on to make clear that salvation from being a sinner is only through vthe sacrifice and she'd blood of Jesus.

Going to mass etc might be important for being a Catholic, but is irrelevant for being a Christian.
 
Bishop Barron explains the importance of experiencing Liturgy. Liturgy of the Word. Liturgy of the Eucharist. It keeps us on track. He fears Catholics may have stopped going to Mass during covid.
It is not enough to be a good person in this life. We need to go to Mass.

Being a "good person" isn't enough for sure (because our "Good works" are (in God's sight) nothing but filthy rags). Going to mass, and doing Catholic Rituals is also useless (since that nothing but "Good works" also).

What a person NEEDS to be right with God, is to be Born Again of the Holy Spirit, after repenting of their SIN under CONVICTION OF SIN, Repenting, and crying out to God in FAITH (that HE gifts) for salvation.
 
How do you define ' good person ' ?
Romans 3:23-25 makes it clear ' All have sinned' , that is every person who has, is or will live with the exception of Jesus, is a sinner and cannot be categorised as ' good '. The verses go on to make clear that salvation from being a sinner is only through vthe sacrifice and she'd blood of Jesus.

Going to mass etc might be important for being a Catholic, but is irrelevant for being a Christian.

Yeah but the principle would be the same for Christianity. It would apply in the respect of, Studying the Word, Praying, fasting, and partaking Communion. All these things can be done at home. But are Christians doing these things (and even more so than usual due to having more time?) Or...are they doing less?

Same thing in principle.
 
Fellowship is important. I like how the rcc emphasizes community. At least for a while there, the rcc had lower suicide rates, probably because of community engagement.
 
Yeah but the principle would be the same for Christianity. It would apply in the respect of, Studying the Word, Praying, fasting, and partaking Communion. All these things can be done at home. But are Christians doing these things (and even more so than usual due to having more time?) Or...are they doing less?

Same thing in principle.
None of the things we do as Christians makes us Christian.

A Christian is simply someone who accepts Jesus as there Lord and Saviour.
 
None of the things we do as Christians makes us Christian.

A Christian is simply someone who accepts Jesus as there Lord and Saviour.

What? Our entire walk makes us Christians. Yes you are correct, accepting (and believing!) Jesus as their Lord and Savior makes a Christian. A baby Christian, one who now begins an active walk with the Lord. Praying reading not sinning or if so then repenting and asking forgiveness. One does not (or should not) receive Salvation and then sit down.

When the burden is lifted...it aint time to sit, the journey begins!

You ever read Pilgrims Progress? The main Character is, Christian. At first he has a burden but leaves his family and journeys to the cross and loses the burden...but his walk (the book) continues. He gets into many misadventures on his journey to Celestial City. (Good read!)
 
The Lord isn't coming back especially for the babes in Christ, though they be included but He wants Mature Christians! With Mature Faith.

Am I wrong?
 
How do you define ' good person ' ?
Romans 3:23-25 makes it clear ' All have sinned' , that is every person who has, is or will live with the exception of Jesus, is a sinner and cannot be categorised as ' good '. The verses go on to make clear that salvation from being a sinner is only through vthe sacrifice and she'd blood of Jesus.

Going to mass etc might be important for being a Catholic, but is irrelevant for being a Christian.
You have forgotten about rebirth.
The "new creature" isn't at all like the "old man".
 
Bishop Barron explains the importance of experiencing Liturgy. Liturgy of the Word. Liturgy of the Eucharist. It keeps us on track. He fears Catholics may have stopped going to Mass during covid.
It is not enough to be a good person in this life. We need to go to Mass.
It is quite clearly a desperate plea. This is what is described by Hebrews 10:25: some have developed an ethos (habit/custom/trait/way) of not gathering together.

When I visited Ireland just before the Covid lockdowns, I actually saw this happening already. It is a largely Catholic country with a long history of contention between people of faith wanting to worship God with the freedom of their conscience vs a church institution that insists that it is the gate by which all must enter lest they be deemed heretical or rebellious. So I met lots of people who had an internal faith but they would say they are not practicing Catholics, or those who would say they are practicing Catholics but who really only want to avoid the inevitable fights that come about whenever the topic of religion is raised. So there are those who say they go to Mass twice a year, and they have all their trinkets on the wall to show their devotion, but on the inside they do not have love for the Word of God.

That's about what it comes down to too, when we really look at the value of meeting together:

"For wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them" - Jesus Christ, Matthew 18:20

Of course the fact that He is in our midst doesn't necessarily mean that He will be speaking from the pulpit (1 John 4:16, 1 John 3:15, Galatians 5:14-15). That's one of the greatest shortcomings of churches: that when a preacher begins speaking from an inferior spirit because they have left the Word of truth and gone into fallacy bringing condemnation upon themselves, those in the audience are forced to take sides as being for or against the war on truth. It is an unfortunate reality of the system of loyalty, that a majority instinctively supports a preacher's right to speak freely merely on account of the fact that he has been commissioned to do so, therefore any person speaking out of turn is unable to have the right to speak.

(What that means simply, is that the audience is expected to sit down, shut up and eat what is being fed to them).

It is the key reason why many teenagers, having left the age of childhood with its blind obedience, have begun listening to what is being said, and having a mind that has not already been bent into the pattern of the world, they squirm and wrestle with the lack of power to bring to light the fallacies and hypocrisy they see. Hence, they get a bad attitude because there is no justice for them. Nobody has empathy or understanding for them in their struggle, and as soon as they find the opportunity to flee, that is literally what they do.

When I raise the topic of Christ with people, I meet this a lot: they will say "oh no, I'm not really interested. I went to a Catholic school, so..."

I think that what is happening through the lockdowns, is people are forgetting the way of thinking that church was keeping them in. They have been broken off from the spirit that prevails in the church environment, and in lieu they have become accustomed to the spirit that prevails wherever they are outside of the church (eg: TV, radio, work, social media, games, friends & family etc). So in a way they are looking at church with new eyes and maybe that's all it takes for some of them to see that the church they have always known is somehow not really as relevant to their faith as they once believed it to be. That's certainly one way that Hebrews 10:25 could come to speak of them.

But I am not really sold on all the pomp and ceremony of churches anyway, as most of my church influence is of Protestant flavours, and I think that the scriptures show also that Jesus and the prophets, the disciples too: they didn't place any value on rituals. They devoted themselves to prayer and to live in a way that pleases God, but whenever ritual is employed, it cannot evade the intrinsic legalistic nature of it.

Jesus said that it is the spirit that gives life, and how does a spirit give life? By bringing the mind to the place of being justified in God's judgment (Romans 8:1). The most powerful instrument for the spirit is speech, because words have the power to change minds. That is why Jesus said "you have been made whole by the word I have spoken to you, therefore remain in me and you will produce much fruit".

It is the Word of God that cleanses us, and any pomp or ceremony does nothing but augment the environment in which the Word of God is proclaimed. I think that if a church was more committed to speaking the Words that give life, then it wouldn't need to work so hard to convince it's own members not to abandon it (John 6:66-68).
 
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One does not (or should not) receive Salvation and then sit down.

Of course if one ACTUALLY DOES Become Born again of the Holy SPirit (instead of just performing rituals, and repeating stuff by rote), then since they are indwelled by the Holy Spirit, the natural outworking of that will be taking HIS YOKE upon Him/Her, learning of Him, and acting accordingly. As Spurgeon used to say: " a "FAITH" that doesn't CHANGE a person, won't save them either.
 
One who defines their Christian journey simply as living a moral life by following the Commandments.
Except of course...
Keeping holy the Sabbath Day ....

Romans 3:23 All have sinned. Just attempting to keep the ten commandments, Loving the Lord with All your heart, soul and strength, is beyond our ability so anyone claiming to be doing this is as 1John 1:8+9 says anyone saying they are without sin is decieving themself.


To be blunt, there are No Good people. All there are is Christians and non Christians.
 
Romans 3:23 All have sinned. Just attempting to keep the ten commandments, Loving the Lord with All your heart, soul and strength, is beyond our ability so anyone claiming to be doing this is as 1John 1:8+9 says anyone saying they are without sin is decieving themself.

To be blunt, there are No Good people. All there are is Christians and non Christians.
Sorry to see you identify with verses 8 and 10 but not 5 and 7.
Walk in the light, and you can have fellowship with God, and you can be free from sinning.
John is illustrating two very different paths.
One is in God-the light and the other in sin-darkness.
Which will you choose?
 
There is no certain form or formulary according to which public religious worship is conducted. No religion can keep us on track and to be a good person as it's about a personal relationship with Christ and our obedience to God's commands and statures. What keeps us on the straight and narrow path is walking that narrow path being led by the Holy Spirit as we are made righteous by that of God's righteousness.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The Eucharist (Communion) has nothing to do with being a good person as it is taken in remembrance of Christ death until He returns.

1 Corinthians 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1 Corinthians 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
 
No religion can keep us on track and to be a good person
I think many religions can do that. Not just Christianity. Most if not all, religions teach morality.
For Catholics, the Mass provides an opportunity to stay close to Jesus through His word and taking the Eucharist. It's all about relationship with Jesus.
 
I think many religions can do that. Not just Christianity. Most if not all, religions teach morality.
For Catholics, the Mass provides an opportunity to stay close to Jesus through His word and taking the Eucharist. It's all about relationship with Jesus.

Most do as this we can agree on.

My home and private time gives me more opportunity to stay close to Jesus through His word then going to church does for an hour as I study a lot throughout the day.

As far as the Eucharist we do this in remembrance of what Christ went through giving that of His body and shedding of His blood.

Paul gives directions regarding the Lord’s Supper in 1 Corinthians 11:23-29. Some have misunderstood verse 26, which says: "As often as ye eat this bread and drink this cup," and interpret it to say "take it as often as you please" But it does not say that!

It says "as often" as we observe it, "ye do show the LORD’S DEATH till He come." And Jesus commanded, "This do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me." (Verse 25.) We do it in remembrance of THE LORD’S DEATH - a memorial of His death. And memorials of momentous occasions always are observed annually, once a year, on the ANNIVERSARY of the event they commemorate.

1 Corinthians 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1 Corinthians 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

God is not about mans religions, the rituals, nor does he even recognize organized denominations/non-denominations as He is all about us having a personal relationship with Him through the Spiritual rebirth as we are regenerated (made new again) by the word and Holy Spirit that indwells us. There are a lot of good people sitting in the church, but yet are clueless about God's salvation. Many go because it makes them feel good for and hour and once they leave they can not even remember what the sermon was all about other than it made them feel good.
 
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There are a lot of good people sitting in the church, but yet are clueless about God's salvation. Many go because it makes them feel good for and hour and once they leave they can not even remember what the sermon was all about other than it made them feel good.
I choose not to judge them. I am too focussed on my own salvation.
 
I'm torn. I've dealt with hateful good Catholics and spiteful protestant church people and good people who dont do church. And...

Ugh. I read somewhere that even in places where it seems that Christianity is growing, a lot of people are going to church more for therapeutic purposes than because of genuine devotion. I think that is especially true in places where charismatic groups are popular.

But, then....what of me, or any other unchurched person? Are we somehow superior, because we don't have a church?

I don't think so lol. I don't go to church because I was always a misfit, now I'm labeled and a bible believing.....

Outcast. Schizophrenia is sort of like a death sentence for one's social identity. Church is no exception.
 
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