Bible Study Origin of the Immortal Soul Doctrine

[Jay T]

Hello Jay T,


I really don't know if you are using the Bible or abusing it in your reply... but I did note that you avoided answering the question I asked concerning the new rules on this forum.

Rule 2 - No Flaming:
You will not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. This will include misquoting another member out of context. You may discuss another member's beliefs but there will be no personal attacks on the member himself or herself. This includes implied accusations that another member is not a Christian.

You, Sir, have posted a link that identifies that those who believe the soul is immortal worship satan...

~serapha~

"So thou, son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel,therefore thou shalt hear the word of my mouth and warn them from me......When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man thou shalt surely die, if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity...BUT HIS BLOOD WIlL I REQUIRE AT THINE HAND", (Ezekiel 33:7,8)

 

[Christ Michael]

To Jay T :

Maybe you could be kind enough to enlighten us as to your theology concerning the non-existance of the soul. How do we live eternally if there is no soul ?? Thanx



Cheers

 

[serapha]

HI there!


I think I would have to be reading those manuscripts for myself. Could you direct me to...s ay... the oldest manuscripts available?


~serapha~

One can find all the info at http://www.urantia.org. One can search The UBook by using the search engine. There are no " oldest manuscripts". Everything is written in clear and plain English.


Cheers

Hi there!

~no thanks~


I don't spend time reading on progressive revelation. The plan of salvation is complete in the Word of God. There is no reason for continued corporate revelation from God.

I might suggest that a spellchecker be used on that "official site".


~serapha~

 

[Christ Michael]

HI there!


I think I would have to be reading those manuscripts for myself. Could you direct me to...s ay... the oldest manuscripts available?


~serapha~

One can find all the info at http://www.urantia.org. One can search The UBook by using the search engine. There are no " oldest manuscripts". Everything is written in clear and plain English.


Cheers

Hi there!

~no thanks~


I don't spend time reading on progressive revelation. The plan of salvation is complete in the Word of God. There is no reason for continued corporate revelation from God.

I might suggest that a spellchecker be used on that "official site".


~serapha~

No problem, and you are welcome ! Since The UBook doesn't have the "oldest manuscripts", which you seem to be so fond of, I would like to offer you a copy of a really, really, really old manuscript written in old Greek, by Aristotle and Ptolemy titled "The Earth-centered Universe" !!!



Cheers

 

[Free]

One passage says it all (as does the verses in Rev. that serapha gave earlier): Luke 16:19-31.

 

[Christ Michael]

One passage says it all (as does the verses in Rev. that serapha gave earlier): Luke 16:19-31.

Nice fairy-tale !! Was Luke in Heaven or Hell when he overheard that conversation ??



Cheers

 

[Free]

Nice fairy-tale !! Was Luke in Heaven or Hell when he overheard that conversation ??

Neither. He was quoting a story Jesus told. You do believe the words of Christ, don't you?

 

[goliwog man]

If you want a real Fairy tale just study up on evelution.

 

[Christ Michael]

Nice fairy-tale !! Was Luke in Heaven or Hell when he overheard that conversation ??

Neither. He was quoting a story Jesus told. You do believe the words of Christ, don't you?

Christ yes, Luke no. While the first hand account , of any event, is somewhat more believable, Luke wasn't even there !!! FYI...

These New Testament records had their origin in the following circumstances:

1. The Gospel by Mark. John Mark wrote the earliest (excepting the notes of Andrew), briefest, and most simple record of Jesus' life. He presented the Master as a minister, as man among men. Although Mark was a lad lingering about many of the scenes which he depicts, his record is in reality the Gospel according to Simon Peter. He was early associated with Peter; later with Paul. Mark wrote this record at the instigation of Peter and on the earnest petition of the church at Rome. Knowing how consistently the Master refused to write out his teachings when on earth and in the flesh, Mark, like the apostles and other leading disciples, was hesitant to put them in writing. But Peter felt the church at Rome required the assistance of such a written narrative, and Mark consented to undertake its preparation. He made many notes before Peter died in A.D. 67, and in accordance with the outline approved by Peter and for the church at Rome, he began his writing soon after Peter's death. The Gospel was completed near the end of A.D. 68. Mark wrote entirely from his own memory and Peter's memory. The record has since been considerably changed, numerous passages having been taken out and some later matter added at the end to replace the latter one fifth of the original Gospel, which was lost from the first manuscript before it was ever copied. This record by Mark, in conjunction with Andrew's and Matthew's notes, was the written basis of all subsequent Gospel narratives which sought to portray the life and teachings of Jesus.

2. The Gospel of Matthew. The so-called Gospel according to Matthew is the record of the Master's life which was written for the edification of Jewish Christians. The author of this record constantly seeks to show in Jesus' life that much which he did was that "it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet." Matthew's Gospel portrays Jesus as a son of David, picturing him as showing great respect for the law and the prophets.

The Apostle Matthew did not write this Gospel. It was written by Isador, one of his disciples, who had as a help in his work not only Matthew's personal


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remembrance of these events but also a certain record which the latter had made of the sayings of Jesus directly after the crucifixion. This record by Matthew was written in Aramaic; Isador wrote in Greek. There was no intent to deceive in accrediting the production to Matthew. It was the custom in those days for pupils thus to honor their teachers.

Matthew's original record was edited and added to in A.D. 40 just before he left Jerusalem to engage in evangelistic preaching. It was a private record, the last copy having been destroyed in the burning of a Syrian monastery in A.D. 416.

Isador escaped from Jerusalem in A.D. 70 after the investment of the city by the armies of Titus, taking with him to Pella a copy of Matthew's notes. In the year 71, while living at Pella, Isador wrote the Gospel according to Matthew. He also had with him the first four fifths of Mark's narrative.

3. The Gospel by Luke. Luke, the physician of Antioch in Pisidia, was a gentile convert of Paul, and he wrote quite a different story of the Master's life. He began to follow Paul and learn of the life and teachings of Jesus in A.D. 47. Luke preserves much of the "grace of the Lord Jesus Christ" in his record as he gathered up these facts from Paul and others. Luke presents the Master as "the friend of publicans and sinners." He did not formulate his many notes into the Gospel until after Paul's death. Luke wrote in the year 82 in Achaia. He planned three books dealing with the history of Christ and Christianity but died in A.D. 90 just before he finished the second of these works, the "Acts of the Apostles."

As material for the compilation of his Gospel, Luke first depended upon the story of Jesus' life as Paul had related it to him. Luke's Gospel is, therefore, in some ways the Gospel according to Paul. But Luke had other sources of information. He not only interviewed scores of eyewitnesses to the numerous episodes of Jesus' life which he records, but he also had with him a copy of Mark's Gospel, that is, the first four fifths, Isador's narrative, and a brief record made in the year A.D. 78 at Antioch by a believer named Cedes. Luke also had a mutilated and much-edited copy of some notes purported to have been made by the Apostle Andrew.

4. The Gospel of John. The Gospel according to John relates much of Jesus' work in Judea and around Jerusalem which is not contained in the other records. This is the so-called Gospel according to John the son of Zebedee, and though John did not write it, he did inspire it. Since its first writing it has several times been edited to make it appear to have been written by John himself. When this record was made, John had the other Gospels, and he saw that much had been omitted; accordingly, in the year A.D. 101 he encouraged his associate, Nathan, a Greek Jew from Caesarea, to begin the writing. John supplied his material from memory and by reference to the three records already in existence. He had no written records of his own. The Epistle known as "First John" was written by John himself as a covering letter for the work which Nathan executed under his direction.

All these writers presented honest pictures of Jesus as they saw, remembered, or had learned of him, and as their concepts of these distant events were affected by their subsequent espousal of Paul's theology of Christianity. And these records, imperfect as they are, have been sufficient to change the course of the history of Urantia for almost two thousand years.


[from The Urantia Book]

Cheers

 

[willow the wip]

A BIBLICAL RESPONSE to the urantia Cult

This is a fase teaching that fallows another solar temple cult

I know it came out of mormonism and the False UFO theorys in urantia

Humans are not to accept a new gospel from spirit beings,39 but instead should rely on the Bible as the authoritative source of truth.40

Jesus is not merely an example of God, but rather is the one in whom the Godhead fully dwells.41

Humans will not be reincarnated many times, but instead live only once before facing judgment from God.42 Furthermore, salvation does not come through anything that humans can do, but instead is given only through the unmerited grace of God.43

http://www.urantia.org/about.html


A Brief Description of The Urantia Book...

The Urantia Book, first published by the Urantia Foundation in 1955, was authored by celestial beings as a special revelation to our planet, Urantia.

The book's message is that all human beings are one family, the sons and daughters of one God, the Universal Father. It instructs on the genesis, history, and destiny of mankind and on our relationship with God. It also presents a unique and compelling portrayal of the life and teachings of Jesus, opening new vistas of time and eternity, and revealing new concepts of Man's ever-ascending adventure of finding the Universal Father in our friendly and carefully administered universe.

The Urantia Book's view of science, philosophy, and religion is perhaps the clearest and most concise integration of these subjects available to contemporary man. There is little question among the over 400,000 people who have purchased, read, and who study the Book: The Urantia Book has the capacity to make a significant contribution to the religious and philosophical thinking of all peoples; it truly has the potential to shape world destiny.

Over and over, people from around the world have discovered that the Book has profoundly impressed and changed their lives - inspired and stimulated them to reach new levels of spiritual growth and enhanced living.

While almost every generation produces a number of people who pose as the bearers of a 'new revelation,' it is surprising that The Urantia Book does not advocate a new organized religion. Its viewpoint builds upon the religious heritages of the past and present, encouraging a personal, living religion based on faith and service to one's fellows.



Uranitia has also involvement in moon worship

http://www.greatdreams.com/moon/moon_worship.htm


URANTIA

P947:4, 85:5.1 The worship of rocks, hills, trees, and animals naturally developed up through fearful veneration of the elements to the deification of the sun, moon, and stars. In India and elsewhere the stars were regarded as the glorified souls of great men who had departed from the life in the flesh. The Chaldean star cultists considered themselves to be the children of the sky father and the earth mother.

P947:5, 85:5.2 Moon worship preceded sun worship. Veneration of the moon was at its height during the hunting era, while sun worship became the chief religious ceremony of the subsequent agricultural ages. Solar worship first took extensive root in India, and there it persisted the longest. In Persia sun veneration gave rise to the later Mithraic cult. Among many peoples the sun was regarded as the ancestor of their kings. The Chaldeans put the sun in the center of "the seven circles of the universe." Later civilizations honored the sun by giving its name to the first day of the week.

P947:6, 85:5.3 The sun god was supposed to be the mystic father of the virgin-born sons of destiny who ever and anon were thought to be bestowed as saviors upon favored races. These supernatural infants were always put adrift upon some sacred river to be rescued in an extraordinary manner, after which they would grow up to become miraculous personalities and the deliverers of their peoples.

This is a gnostic Occult practice

 

[Free]

CM,

Christ yes, Luke no. While the first hand account , of any event, is somewhat more believable, Luke wasn't even there !!!

As the Urantia book states, Luke was close to Paul so he likely knew several of the other disciples as well and there were many eyewitnesses that could verify what Jesus taught. So it really doesn't matter whether or not Luke was there. There is no reason to discount Luke's account of what Jesus said.

As such, the passage in Luke 16 has three dead guys having a conversation.

 

[willow the wip]

seems to be that is saying paul was a spritisit

 

[Christ Michael]

A BIBLICAL RESPONSE to the urantia Cult

This is a fase teaching that fallows another solar temple cult

I know it came out of mormonism and the False UFO theorys in urantia

Humans are not to accept a new gospel from spirit beings,39 but instead should rely on the Bible as the authoritative source of truth.40

Jesus is not merely an example of God, but rather is the one in whom the Godhead fully dwells.41

Humans will not be reincarnated many times, but instead live only once before facing judgment from God.42 Furthermore, salvation does not come through anything that humans can do, but instead is given only through the unmerited grace of God.43

http://www.urantia.org/about.html


A Brief Description of The Urantia Book...

The Urantia Book, first published by the Urantia Foundation in 1955, was authored by celestial beings as a special revelation to our planet, Urantia.

The book's message is that all human beings are one family, the sons and daughters of one God, the Universal Father. It instructs on the genesis, history, and destiny of mankind and on our relationship with God. It also presents a unique and compelling portrayal of the life and teachings of Jesus, opening new vistas of time and eternity, and revealing new concepts of Man's ever-ascending adventure of finding the Universal Father in our friendly and carefully administered universe.

The Urantia Book's view of science, philosophy, and religion is perhaps the clearest and most concise integration of these subjects available to contemporary man. There is little question among the over 400,000 people who have purchased, read, and who study the Book: The Urantia Book has the capacity to make a significant contribution to the religious and philosophical thinking of all peoples; it truly has the potential to shape world destiny.

Over and over, people from around the world have discovered that the Book has profoundly impressed and changed their lives - inspired and stimulated them to reach new levels of spiritual growth and enhanced living.

While almost every generation produces a number of people who pose as the bearers of a 'new revelation,' it is surprising that The Urantia Book does not advocate a new organized religion. Its viewpoint builds upon the religious heritages of the past and present, encouraging a personal, living religion based on faith and service to one's fellows.



nostic OcculUranitia has also involvement in moon worship

http://www.greatdreams.com/moon/moon_worship.htm


URANTIA

P947:4, 85:5.1 The worship of rocks, hills, trees, and animals naturally developed up through fearful veneration of the elements to the deification of the sun, moon, and stars. In India and elsewhere the stars were regarded as the glorified souls of great men who had departed from the life in the flesh. The Chaldean star cultists considered themselves to be the children of the sky father and the earth mother.

P947:5, 85:5.2 Moon worship preceded sun worship. Veneration of the moon was at its height during the hunting era, while sun worship became the chief religious ceremony of the subsequent agricultural ages. Solar worship first took extensive root in India, and there it persisted the longest. In Persia sun veneration gave rise to the later Mithraic cult. Among many peoples the sun was regarded as the ancestor of their kings. The Chaldeans put the sun in the center of "the seven circles of the universe." Later civilizations honored the sun by giving its name to the first day of the week.

P947:6, 85:5.3 The sun god was supposed to be the mystic father of the virgin-born sons of destiny who ever and anon were thought to be bestowed as saviors upon favored races. These supernatural infants were always put adrift upon some sacred river to be rescued in an extraordinary manner, after which they would grow up to become miraculous personalities and the deliverers of their peoples.

This is a gt practice

A BIBLICAL RESPONSE to the urantia Cult

This is a fase teaching that fallows another solar temple cult

Utter rubbish !!!

I know it came out of mormonism and the False UFO theorys in urantia

Utter rubbish !! I have read The Bible and the above is nothing more than your own " enlightened" response !!

Humans are not to accept a new gospel from spirit beings,39 but instead should rely on the Bible as the authoritative source of truth.40

Throw your own "holy book" in the garbage then because it is full of spirit beings, including God !!

Humans will not be reincarnated many times, but instead live only once before facing judgment from God.42 Furthermore, salvation does not come through anything that humans can do, but instead is given only through the unmerited grace of God.43

Garbage again !! The UBook clearly states that thare is NO reincarnation. Your life here is the starting point in your ascension towards God

nostic OcculUranitia has also involvement in moon worship

http://www.greatdreams.com/moon/moon_worship.htm


URANTIA

P947:4, 85:5.1 The worship of rocks, hills, trees, and animals naturally developed up through fearful veneration of the elements to the deification of the sun, moon, and stars. In India and elsewhere the stars were regarded as the glorified souls of great men who had departed from the life in the flesh. The Chaldean star cultists considered themselves to be the children of the sky father and the earth mother.

P947:5, 85:5.2 Moon worship preceded sun worship. Veneration of the moon was at its height during the hunting era, while sun worship became the chief religious ceremony of the subsequent agricultural ages. Solar worship first took extensive root in India, and there it persisted the longest. In Persia sun veneration gave rise to the later Mithraic cult. Among many peoples the sun was regarded as the ancestor of their kings. The Chaldeans put the sun in the center of "the seven circles of the universe." Later civilizations honored the sun by giving its name to the first day of the week.

P947:6, 85:5.3 The sun god was supposed to be the mystic father of the virgin-born sons of destiny who ever and anon were thought to be bestowed as saviors upon favored races. These supernatural infants were always put adrift upon some sacred river to be rescued in an extraordinary manner, after which they would grow up to become miraculous personalities and the deliverers of their peoples.

This is a gt practice

[/quote]

More garbage !! It is obvious that your COMPREHENSION SKILLS are not even at the elementary school level. The quotes you provided are from the paper titled " The Origin of Worship http://www.urantia.org/cgi-bin/webg...ocal/www/data/papers/paper85.html&line=21#mfs which deals with development of primitive religions.


Comment : In your attempt to smear The Revealed Truth you have fallen flat on your face !! Unless you are educationally challenged, I can only conclude that you LIED on purpose, which is a SIN, and the penalty for sinning, according to your own holy book, is DEATH !!! You know what you MUST do !!!



Cheers

 

[Christ Michael]

CM,

Christ yes, Luke no. While the first hand account , of any event, is somewhat more believable, Luke wasn't even there !!!

As the Urantia book states, Luke was close to Paul so he likely knew several of the other disciples as well and there were many eyewitnesses that could verify what Jesus taught. So it really doesn't matter whether or not Luke was there. There is no reason to discount Luke's account of what Jesus said.

As such, the passage in Luke 16 has three dead guys having a conversation.

Three dead guys having a conversation ???



Cheers

 

[serapha]

Hello et. al...

:angel:


The name of this forum is "Bible Study" and not the "Urantia Book" study. There are forums for debate of "other" topics than The Holy Bible




~serapha~

 

[Free]

CM,

Three dead guys having a conversation ???

Have you no response to Jesus' words?


To All,

I strongly suggest if one wishes to discuss the merits, or lack thereof, of the Urantia Book, to start a thread in Christianity and Other Reilgions. Please keep this thread on topic and keep in mind the forum rules.

 

[Christ Michael]

CM,

Three dead guys having a conversation ???

Have you no response to Jesus' words?


To All,

I strongly suggest if one wishes to discuss the merits, or lack thereof, of the Urantia Book, to start a thread in Christianity and Other Reilgions. Please keep this thread on topic and keep in mind the forum rules.

Luke 16 were NEVER Jesus' words because hell doesn't exist !!! What you have in Luke 16 is someone's fertile imagination. An all loving and mercifull Father would NEVER create a place where an immortal soul would be tormented for eternity !!! The true nature of reality is this: " What mercy can NOT rehabilitate, God's justice will annihilate " !!!
No need for hell.


P.S. I have never heard of dead people having a conversation !!


Cheers

 

[Free]

CM,

Luke 16 were NEVER Jesus' words because hell doesn't exist !!! What you have in Luke 16 is someone's fertile imagination.

Care to back that up with some evidence? Is the word "hell" inserted into the text by someone else everytime it seems Jesus mentions it?

An all loving and mercifull Father would NEVER create a place where an immortal soul would be tormented for eternity !!!

And why not? Give me even one good reason.

P.S. I have never heard of dead people having a conversation !!

I have, in Luke 16. It's in the text and it stands as vaild unless you can prove that someone else inserted it.

 

[Christ Michael]

CM,

Luke 16 were NEVER Jesus' words because hell doesn't exist !!! What you have in Luke 16 is someone's fertile imagination.

Care to back that up with some evidence? Is the word "hell" inserted into the text by someone else everytime it seems Jesus mentions it?

[quote:c65a1]An all loving and mercifull Father would NEVER create a place where an immortal soul would be tormented for eternity !!!

And why not? Give me even one good reason.

P.S. I have never heard of dead people having a conversation !!

I have, in Luke 16. It's in the text and it stands as vaild unless you can prove that someone else inserted it.[/quote:c65a1]

3. THE RICH MAN AND THE BEGGAR


When the meeting became too noisy, Simon Peter, standing up, took charge, saying: "Men and brethren, it is not seemly thus to dispute among yourselves. The Master has spoken, and you do well to ponder his words. And this is no new doctrine which he proclaimed to you. Have you not also heard the allegory of the Nazarites concerning the rich man and the beggar? Some of us heard John the Baptist thunder this parable of warning to those who love riches and covet dishonest wealth. And while this olden parable is not according to the gospel we preach, you would all do well to heed its lessons until such a time as you comprehend the new light of the kingdom of heaven. The story as John told it was like this:

"There was a certain rich man named Dives, who, being clothed in purple and fine linen, lived in mirth and splendor every day. And there was a certain


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beggar named Lazarus, who lay at this rich man's gate, covered with sores and desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table; yes, even the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass that the beggar died and was carried away by the angels to rest in Abraham's bosom. And then, presently, this rich man also died and was buried with great pomp and regal splendor. When the rich man departed from this world, he waked up in Hades, and finding himself in torment, he lifted up his eyes and beheld Abraham afar off and Lazarus in his bosom. And then Dives cried aloud: `Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send over Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water to cool my tongue, for I am in great anguish because of my punishment.' And then Abraham replied: `My son, you should remember that in your lifetime you enjoyed the good things while Lazarus in like manner suffered the evil. But now all this is changed, seeing that Lazarus is comforted while you are tormented. And besides, between us and you there is a great gulf so that we cannot go to you, neither can you come over to us.' Then said Dives to Abraham: `I pray you send Lazarus back to my father's house, inasmuch as I have five brothers, that he may so testify as to prevent my brothers from coming to this place of torment.' But Abraham said: `My son, they have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' And then answered Dives: `No, No, Father Abraham! but if one go to them from the dead, they will repent.' And then said Abraham: `If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded even if one were to rise from the dead.'"

After Peter had recited this ancient parable of the Nazarite brotherhood, and since the crowd had quieted down, Andrew arose and dismissed them for the night. Although both the apostles and his disciples frequently asked Jesus questions about the parable of Dives and Lazarus, he never consented to make comment thereon.http://www.urantia.org/cgi-bin/webg...cal/www/data/papers/paper169.html&line=88#mfs

[from The UBook]

This is where Luke 16 comes from. Please note that it NEVER came from Jesus !! If you follow the link you will see that Jesus just finished the " Parable of the shrewd stuard", which the Pharisees didn't like very much, and so the meeting became noisy.


Cheers

 

[Free]

This is where Luke 16 comes from.

It is, is it? That's interesting because the Bible has Jesus saying it, along with many other things.

Please note that it NEVER came from Jesus !!

You still have not given any evidence for this nor answered my other questions.