OSAS The Truth

[Ricko]

No, he said this: "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit maybe saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." 1 Cor 5:5 KJV

Please include the whole statement; "for the destruction of the flesh", obviously meaning his physical life. Not his soul.


What makes you think that?

Are you assuming because Paul told them to deliver that sinner unto satan that he died instantly?

 

[Jesse]

We are reigning with Christ as Head in heavenly places over the angelic realm, Israel is reign with Christ as king over the gentile nations.

Can you provide scripture?

Not sure I see Israel as any different than the Gentile nations, we are one, there is no difference.

The Church = Israel

 

[veryberry]

We are justified the moment we believe. Sanctification occurs the rest of our lives.

The death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ provided perfect justification(Roms 1-5) and perfect sanctification(Roms 6-8).

The priest, what did they do to sanctify themselves for the temple? They cleansed themselves(water baptism) and offered sacrifices for sins. We are baptized into Jesus Christ by the holy Spirit and are forgiven and cleansed of all sin by the sacrifice of Christ Jesus. We are perfectly Justified and sanctified by the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

[veryberry]

Can you provide scripture?

The epistle to the ephesians is a good reference. We are seated in heavenly places with Christ. This is where we will reign with Christ. We are his body, He is our Head.
1 Thess 4:17 - states that we will be with the Lord in the air for ever. -
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:and so shall we ever be with the Lord <--- do a phrase search on "so shall" and you will see what I mean.

1 Cor 6:3 states that we will be judging angels

Not sure I see Israel as any different than the Gentile nations, we are one, there is no difference.

In this dispensation of Grace their is no difference in Jew or Gentile. But that was not always so. Before Paul, there absolutely was. Through Israel's fall, salvation was brought unto the gentiles. But when the fullness of the gentiles come in, God's focus will once again return to Israel resuming and finishing his work with them as stated in Roms 11.

The Church = Israel

Correct, Israel is a church called the little flock The body of Christ is a church called, the body of Christ. 2 Churches for 2 different reasons. Both the heavens(Job 15:15) and the earth are unclean. Israel will labour with God in reconciling the earth to himself(Which is what most of the bible talks about). The body of Christ will labour with God in reconciling the heavenlies unto himself(Romans - Philemon).

Roms 8:19-21
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God

 

[JLB]

verryberry said -

Through Israel's fall, salvation was brought unto the gentiles.

Where is scripture for this statement.


Israel's fall?

When did Israel fall? Scripture please.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Please show me the The Savior in these verse that I quoted.

My bible says the Sower sowed the seed, and let the seed fall where it may.

if believe = saved

believe for a while = saved for a while.

believe for awhile = saved for a while

Believe for a while does not = never saved

This is getting a little tiring. No verse says what you claim. Many verses guarantee salvation for those who have believed.

What is irrefutable is that God's gifts and calling are irrevocable. No one has disproven that.

Believe for a while = saved for a while.JLB

Believe (aorist tense-in a point in time), eternally saved. That is the truth.

 

[FreeGrace]

Are you assuming because Paul told them to deliver that sinner unto satan that he died instantly?

Absolutely not. Quite the opposite. Since 1 Pet 5:7 tells us that Satan prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour, I imagine that if given the opportunity, the devil will make the believer's death as miserable and slow as possible.

Kinda like savoring a gourmet meal. Who in their right mind would wolf it down quickly?

 

[Gary]

What about false believers? Can they be blotted from the Book of Life?

Yes! absolutely my friend.

That kinda puts the kibosh on the OSAS doctrine.

Wouldn't you say?
.

 

[veryberry]

Where is scripture for this statement.


Israel's fall?

When did Israel fall? Scripture please.


JLB

Do you not read your bible? Romans 11:11 - I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

But God will return to Israel when the fullness of the Gentiles come in.

Romans 11:25 - For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[JLB]

This is getting a little tiring. No verse says what you claim. Many verses guarantee salvation for those who have believed.

What is irrefutable is that God's gifts and calling are irrevocable. No one has disproven that.


Believe (aorist tense-in a point in time), eternally saved. That is the truth.

if believe = saved

believe for a while = saved for a while.

believe for awhile = saved for a while

Believe for a while does not = never saved

 

[JLB]

Do you not read your bible? Romans 11:11 - I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

But God will return to Israel when the fullness of the Gentiles come in.

Romans 11:25 - For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

When did Israel fall. Not if, but when?

The Gospel was preached to Israel for 10 years before the first recorded Gentile came in.


JLB

 

[veryberry]

When did Israel fall. Not if, but when?

The Gospel was preached to Israel for 10 years before the first recorded Gentile came in.


JLB

The stoning of Stephen. Acts 7. Acts 8 Talks of Paul persecuting the church at Jerusalem, Acts 9 Paul was converted. Don't you find it interesting that Paul, blasphemed the Holy Ghost(1 Tim 1:13)? Wasn't it written in Matthew 12 that the blaspheming of the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven, in this world or the world to come? Why do you suppose that is?

 

[Jesse]

When did Israel fall. Not if, but when?

The Gospel was preached to Israel for 10 years before the first recorded Gentile came in.


JLB

Israel had fallen way before the birth of Christ.

 

[veryberry]

Israel had fallen way before the birth of Christ.

Man fell at the beginning of the world, but your statement is false.

 

[Jesse]

Man fell at the beginning of the world, but your statement is false.

Well, they weren't doing very well......

But, it was when they denied Christ and had him crucified. He created them, but they did not know Him.

 

[veryberry]

Well, they weren't doing very well......

But, it was when they denied Christ and had him crucified. He created them, but they did not know Him.

Thats true, but even after they crucified Christ the kingdom was still offered to Israel. This what Peter was preaching through the power of the Holy Ghost. They rejected John the baptist message(the Father), they rejected Jesus Christ message(The Son) and they rejected Peter and the 11 message(The Holy Ghost). This is what Jesus was referring to in Matthew 12:31-32.

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men:but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come

 

[veryberry]

Well, they weren't doing very well......

But, it was when they denied Christ and had him crucified. He created them, but they did not know Him.

What was to come next, was wrath. But instead of wrath. Jesus saved Paul, and grace is being poured out. Paul was the first(1 Tim 1:16). This time we live in, is a mystery. It started in a mystery and it will end in a mystery and God will return focus on Israel. When Christ said that blasphemy of Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven in this world, or the world to come, he was not talking about this world(or age). Paul conversion is a testimony of that. Paul blasphemed the Holy Ghost(he rejected the message and persecuted the church at Jerusalem) and he was saved, forgiven. Something that Christ said would not happen. So the time we live in can not be "this world" or "the world to come". We are in between, a total different world.

 

[Jesse]

What was to come next, was wrath. But instead of wrath. Jesus saved Paul, and grace is being poured out. Paul was the first(1 Tim 1:16). This time we live in, is a mystery. It started in a mystery and it will end in a mystery and God will return focus on Israel. When Christ said that blasphemy of Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven in this world, or the world to come, he was not talking about this world(or age). Paul conversion is a testimony of that. Paul blasphemed the Holy Ghost(he rejected the message and persecuted the church at Jerusalem) and he was saved, forgiven. Something that Christ said would not happen. So the time we live in can not be "this world" or "the world to come". We are in between, a total different world.

Do you mean the mystery that is Christ? Because Paul referred to a "mystery" but now we know that it is Christ.

But Paul did not have his eyes opened yet to who Christ was, so he did not blaspheme the Holy Spirit, plus the unforgivable sin is to say that what the Holy Spirit does is not of Him but of the evil one.

 

[veryberry]

Do you mean the mystery that is Christ? Because Paul referred to a "mystery" but now we know that it is Christ.

But Paul did not have his eyes opened yet to who Christ was, so he did not blaspheme the Holy Spirit, plus the unforgivable sin is to say that what the Holy Spirit does is not of Him but of the evil one.

Christ was not a mystery, He was prophesied about since Genesis 3. Jews should have recognized who he was by His signs and miracles that were prophesied. But they denied him and crucified Him. Acts 2, Peter says "you rejected and crucified your messiah, and he has risen from the dead" which was not good news to the listening party and many believed. But ultimately, Israel rejected Peters message. If they rejected the signs and miracles of the Holy Ghost, who do you think that they thought was producing these works so that they would not believe?

The mystery that I am referring to was made know to Paul(Romans 16:25, Eph 3:3) and not to Peter or anyone before Paul, who's eyes were opened to who Christ was.

 

[smaller]

Please show me the The Savior in these verse that I quoted.
JLB

Indeed. The Savior seems to be entirely missing in the observations with no abilities to do much of anything.