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Peter, Paul and James

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Anto9us2

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In the early chapters of Acts, Peter is pretty much Top Dog.

Later, this seems to fade.
Paul rebukes Peter at Antioch, for when "certain of James" arrived, Peter drew back from eating with Gentiles. James seems to be at least the Emcee, if not "in charge" at the Acts 15 council.

At one point, Paul seemed to say "I am apostle to the uncircumcised, as Peter is to the circumcision"

James, as best I can figure, is a half-brother to Jesus by an earlier marriage of Joseph (I think this of Jude and the other brothers and sisters of Jesus), and James was not originally a disciple, how he got to be one of the PILLARS is beyond me.

The other James, brother of John of Zebedee, was one of the early martyrs.

Peter, we know was in both Jerusalem and Antioch - was he also later in Rome (
 
Sorry, was interrupted...

Anyway, a veiled reference to "Babylon" May be a reference to Rome.

Paul sends letter to Rome carried by Phoebe the Deaconess.

At the end of that letter, Paul enumerates greetings to about 27 Christians. Peter is not mentioned.

I think there is much about Peter, James, James and John of Zebedee that we cannot know for certain. It is said that John returned from Patmos and lived to be a hundred (not in the Bible, but in a tradition)

Our "great guys" of the early church have some obscurity concerning them
 
First I need to make it clear that James is not a half brother to Jesus by another marriage as Joseph and Mary had other children after the birth of Jesus. James would be in a sense a half brother because Joseph was not the natural father of Jesus.

The book of Acts was written by Luke who was a Christian Gentile from Antioch who was a Physician to Paul and his traveling partner. In the first chapter Luke was summarizing the appearance of the resurrected Christ to His Ascension up to heaven, the anticipation of the Spirit and the appointment of Mattias.

Luke never met Christ or witnessed His teachings, nor in the upper room on the day of Pentecost, but researched the material for both his books by talking with Peter and Paul. Peter dominates the first half of Acts and Paul the other half.

Galatians 2:11-21 Paul had to correct Peter concerning the preaching to the Gentiles, Galatians 2:11-21, on the issue about being seen eating with the Gentiles but refusing to preaching to them as he saw the Gentile people to be unclean because they were not circumcised. You can read about the vision Peter had in Acts 10:9-16 to also go out to the Gentiles.

Paul was instructed to go and preach to the Gentiles as he would have not been received very well in Jerusalem, Acts 22:1-21. (Paul to the Gentiles)

Jesus instructed His disciples to not go in the way of the Gentiles nor to the towns of Samaritans, but only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Matthew 10:5-15. (to the Jew first)

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. (Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah and made martyr's of His disciples)

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (all nations Jew and Gentile)

Whether Peter ever went to Rome is not mentioned in the scriptures nor does it say he died there as it's only speculation, but he did send Silvanus with a letter to a church in Babylon, which is now present day Iraq, not Rome, 1 Peter 5:12-14.

There are many things we don't know for certain as scripture is silent on many things, John 21:25.
 
First I need to make it clear that James is not a half brother to Jesus by another marriage as Joseph and Mary had other children after the birth of Jesus. James would be in a sense a half brother because Joseph was not the natural father of Jesus.

The book of Acts was written by Luke who was a Christian Gentile from Antioch who was a Physician to Paul and his traveling partner. In the first chapter Luke was summarizing the appearance of the resurrected Christ to His Ascension up to heaven, the anticipation of the Spirit and the appointment of Mattias.

Luke never met Christ or witnessed His teachings, nor in the upper room on the day of Pentecost, but researched the material for both his books by talking with Peter and Paul. Peter dominates the first half of Acts and Paul the other half.

Galatians 2:11-21 Paul had to correct Peter concerning the preaching to the Gentiles, Galatians 2:11-21, on the issue about being seen eating with the Gentiles but refusing to preaching to them as he saw the Gentile people to be unclean because they were not circumcised. You can read about the vision Peter had in Acts 10:9-16 to also go out to the Gentiles.

Paul was instructed to go and preach to the Gentiles as he would have not been received very well in Jerusalem, Acts 22:1-21. (Paul to the Gentiles)

Jesus instructed His disciples to not go in the way of the Gentiles nor to the towns of Samaritans, but only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Matthew 10:5-15. (to the Jew first)

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. (Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah and made martyr's of His disciples)

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (all nations Jew and Gentile)

Whether Peter ever went to Rome is not mentioned in the scriptures nor does it say he died there as it's only speculation, but he did send Silvanus with a letter to a church in Babylon, which is now present day Iraq, not Rome, 1 Peter 5:12-14.

There are many things we don't know for certain as scripture is silent on many things, John 21:25.

Do you have any evidence for the other children Mary and Joseph supposedly had?
 
Jesus commended His mother's care to John on the cross.

Granted, John was the only male disciple present. But if Mary had other sons, this is strange.

When Jesus was 12, travelling to Temple, there is no mention of brothers and sisters

There is no certainty, but the concept of Joseph as a widower having James, Jude, and other sons and daughters before marrying Mary is believed by many.
 
Do you have any evidence for the other children Mary and Joseph supposedly had?

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
 
Jesus commended His mother's care to John on the cross.

Granted, John was the only male disciple present. But if Mary had other sons, this is strange.

When Jesus was 12, travelling to Temple, there is no mention of brothers and sisters

There is no certainty, but the concept of Joseph as a widower having James, Jude, and other sons and daughters before marrying Mary is believed by many.

What others believe through the grape vine is not always true. The other children Mary and Joseph had were not relevant to be mentioned other than by name as Jesus is the focal point of all scripture.
 
Several things here.

Peter is the Apostolic Leader
James is the "Synagogue"/church leader in Jerusalem of Christians. The premier church and an example for all the other Christian communities.
Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. (The largest group of converts)
 
Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

First, Scripture does not state Mary of Nazareth had any children other than Jesus Christ. Christ is referred to as THE son of Mary, not A son of Mary.

As for James, Joses and Simon, we know from the other Gospels that they are the sons of Mary of Cleophas, not Mary of Nazareth (the Mother of Jesus). St. John tells us that it is Mary of Cleophas at the cross (John 19:25), and St. Matthew tells this Mary of Cleophas is the mother of James and Joses. (Mt. 27:56)

Ergo, when James and Joses and Simon are called "brothers" of Jesus, they cannot be uterine brothers because their mother is Mary of Cleophas.

The modern Evangelical Protestant error of claiming Mary had subsequent maternities stems from forcing a modern Westernized concept of a family unit (i.e. a nuclear family) onto an ancient Hebrew / Semitic (tribal) culture. The ancient Hebrews did not view family in this manner. Thus to impose and presume a 21st century Western nuclear structure onto Hebrew Semitic / ancient culture is erroneous. Interpreting those passages through the lens of a modern nuclear family like we have is fallacious. The term “brother” in Jewish culture in antiquity had a much broader use in antiquity.
 
First, Scripture does not state Mary of Nazareth had any children other than Jesus Christ. Christ is referred to as THE son of Mary, not A son of Mary.

As for James, Joses and Simon, we know from the other Gospels that they are the sons of Mary of Cleophas, not Mary of Nazareth (the Mother of Jesus). St. John tells us that it is Mary of Cleophas at the cross (John 19:25), and St. Matthew tells this Mary of Cleophas is the mother of James and Joses. (Mt. 27:56)

Ergo, when James and Joses and Simon are called "brothers" of Jesus, they cannot be uterine brothers because their mother is Mary of Cleophas.

The modern Evangelical Protestant error of claiming Mary had subsequent maternities stems from forcing a modern Westernized concept of a family unit (i.e. a nuclear family) onto an ancient Hebrew / Semitic (tribal) culture. The ancient Hebrews did not view family in this manner. Thus to impose and presume a 21st century Western nuclear structure onto Hebrew Semitic / ancient culture is erroneous. Interpreting those passages through the lens of a modern nuclear family like we have is fallacious. The term “brother” in Jewish culture in antiquity had a much broader use in antiquity.

Are you not "the" son of your mother if she has other sons younger than you, yet being the first son in the numbering of sons? If you don't want to believe what is written in Mark 6:3 then that is your choice as it is clearly written.

John 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! 27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home. (could it be Jesus was talking about Mary the mother of John, known also by the name of Salome the mother of John, sister of Mary of Nazareth

Jesus said woman behold your son (Mary the mother of Jesus) then Jesus said to John behold your mother (Mary the mother of James and John the wife of Zebedee). And from that hour John brought his own mother into his house.

Three mothers named Mary. Mary the mother of Jesus wife of Joseph, his mother's sister Mary, also known as Salome the wife of Zebedee and the mother of James and John as John was the beloved disciple of Jesus. Salome is not to be confused with Salome the daughter of Herodias. And there with the other two Mary's was Mary Magdalene as all three witnessed the crucifixtion of Jesus. When Jesus told John to behold his mother means John's mother as John brought her into his house.


Matthew 27:55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him: 56 Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children. (James and John)

Matthew 13:55, 56; Mark 16:1 and Luke 24:10 confirm that of Mark 6:3. Scripture says what it says as no one can change that which has already been written no matter how they try.
 
ADELPHOS in Greek can sometimes mean "close relative" and not necessarily actual brother.

Thanks, all of you, for responses. Too many Mary's, and I still think Mary Magdalene and Mary of Bethany (sister of Martha and Lazarus) are the same person.
 
I still think Mary Magdalene and Mary of Bethany (sister of Martha and Lazarus) are the same person.

Here is something I discovered today researching all of this that I never realized before.

Mary Magdalene (called Magdalene because she was born in Magdala, Israel) and Mary named Marie of Bethany (born at Al-Eizariya name for modern Bethany) are not the same person.

Side note: Marie and Mary are the same name. My Great Aunt's name was Marie when she lived in Romania, but when she came to America it was pronounced Mary.

According to the Genealogy of Eucharis and Cyrus who was the King of the Benjamite tribe in Magdala and a descendant from the House of David are the parents of Mary Magdalene, Mary/Marie of Bethany, Martha and Lazarus.

Mary Magdalene was born in Magdala hence the surname Magdalene, Mary/Marie of Bethany was born in Al-Eizariya later known as Bethany, Martha born in Palestine and was the mother of Mark and John who was a widow, Lazarus was born in Al-Eizariya (Bethany).
 
OK
I can adjust.

A female Anglican pastor from Australia on another board thought the two Mary's were different also.
 
That's why you have to research the facts with scripture and history and not believe the myths. Many also teach another myth that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married and had children. Be careful for what you hear as there are many wolves among us.
 
Oh, yeah, myths of Merovingian Gnostics, a "swoon theory" that Jesus survived the crucifixion and went off to France and had kids with Mary Magdalene...

So which Mary had the alabaster jar of expensive ointment?
 
Woman with the ointment might be neither Mary.

Unnamed, but said by Jesus to be long-remembered for what she did.
 
So which Mary had the alabaster jar of expensive ointment?

Mary Magdalene had the alabaster jar. It might have been here own since she came from a wealthy family with her father being a king.

I can explain that more tomorrow if you want, but my eyeballs are fading so it's time for bed. I'll catch ya tomorrow. You have a good night.
 
You too.

I found it, John 11:2, Mary, sister of Lazarus, who had alabaster jar.
It was likely her dowry... meaning she was putting her future married life in jeopardy. (Probably wouldn't be getting married and die penniless and starving)

Great show of faith in that time when women were one half step above property.
 
Yes, great show of faith on Mary's part, JohnDB.

In doing more research, I have found things that disturb me about the book WOMAN WITH THE ALABASTER JAR, which I have not read, and it seems the book may have popularized the myths of Jesus marrying Mary M. and having kids and all of that

I am far from done with this topic
 
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