What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Focus on the Family

    Strengthening families through biblical principles.

    Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.

    Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.

  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses

  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

    Read The Gospel Online.

Pretrib Teachings Damaging to Our Very Soul - Part 1

2024 Website Hosting Fees

Total amount
$1,048.00
Goal
$1,038.00
Donate View
for_his_glory

for_his_glory

Fight the good fight of faith
2024 Supporter
PART 1

How do you interpret the word of God? Do you allow others to teach you or do you read scripture to know for a surety of what you are being taught is truth? There is so much deception in the world when it comes to the word of God and how it is being taught to us. Many people love to jump on the band wagon of monetary gain by teaching a popular word that sounds good to the ear, but is damaging to your very soul. God calls this the falling away, which means people allowing themselves to be deceived by another gospel other than that of the Gospel of Christ.

Ministries are using the Church, television and the internet as their platforms to reach all the nations across the world with their philosophies and theories as they calculate the end times and the coming of Christ. Thousands of books and articles have been written on this subject and became popular in the early 1800’s. When something evolves into popularity it becomes socially acceptable in the way it presents itself and we allow ourselves to believe in something we know very little about. This is the same with the word of God if it is received as a majority rule teaching, but in all reality is Satan’s twisted word of God being taught by those who have been deceived without realizing it, but they will still stand with no excuse for ignorance.

I allowed myself to fall prey to these pretrib teachings as when scripture was presented to support their theories it all made sense to me. I was learning with a carnal mind at the time that knew nothing of the Spiritual teachings of the doctrines of Christ because I did not have Spiritual ears to hear or Spiritual eyes to see. Many years I followed these teachings and believed them and even taught them to others until I started reading the book of Revelation for myself and these theories suddenly did not set well in my spirit as the Holy Spirit started revealing truth to me.

I guess you can pick and choose scripture to support anything you want, but when you bring the whole of Gods word together it will expose truth and when you know truth then Satan can not blindside you into believing his twisted word of God. Remember, Satan is a roaring lion seeking whom he can devour.

I have tried to condense this chapter as the end times can be a lengthy study filled with many scriptures that support we will go through much tribulation, but if we endure until the end of this present world we will see Satan cast into the lake of fire forever then we will be with the Lord forever. Please read all the scriptures given and not only read them, but read the whole chapter they are taken from by allowing the Holy Spirit open your Spiritual eyes so you will not be taken as a thief in the night when Jesus returns for his bride. Do not believe what I say, but believe the word for what God has already said.
 
Part 2

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The Church, which represents the bride of Christ, will face seeing much tribulation as it will be hard to bare seeing Gods wrath poured out on the unjust as we are sent out to preach to them before we enter into the kingdom of God (New Jerusalem). There are many false teachings that teach we are taken out of here before some seven year Great Tribulation, but there is no scripture that speaks of a seven year Great Tribulation. Some also teach that after Rev Chapter 4 the Church is no longer here on earth. If this were the case then why did Jesus say that those who endure until the end will be saved. The end of what, the end of days or as scripture calls it that great and terrible day of the Lord when final judgment will be passed as the Sheep are separated from the goats and the goats are cast into the lake of fire with Satan, the beast and false prophets.

By studying all the scriptures below in Revelations I come to the conclusion we will see much tribulation, but not to fear what must come, but stand strong in the faith of Christ Jesus so we can endure until the coming of the Lord and be His witnesses as a faithful servant until He returns. God's wrath is not for the elect of God as they are kept from it falling on them and when we see the abomination that causes desolation, Daniel Chapter 7; Matthew 24:15-22; Rev Chapter 13, we are to flee from taking its mark as we stand in a greater faith in Christ that we need not fear that which has to come first before Christ returns, Matthew 10:28, but that we need to be prepared as His Bride when He does return on the last day and destroys the beast and false prophet at His coming, Rev 19.

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God

Mat 24:13,29-31 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is telling us to watch for the signs of His coming and to overcome so that our names are not blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 5:13; 6:17; 7:1-5 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days as God's wrath begins with the opening of the seventh seal

Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were, which means those of the elect of God who refuse to take the mark of the beast and will die a martyr's death for their faith in Christ.

Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation is the fullness of the Gentiles who also died a martyr's death for the sake of Christ

Rev 8:13 Three woes are that of warning the people on earth that the last three trumpets are about to sound

Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about mystery Babylon ruling the world again as a one world government. 666 represents action of the hands and thoughts of the mind

Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children who are still alive at this time as they are being protected against the vial judgments that will fall on those who have rejected Christ.

Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. The elect of God are told to watch for the return of Christ as He comes like a theif and we are to keep our garments clean and not found in shame

Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of great tribulation through the persecution of the revived Roman Empire and Christ is about to return for His Bride

Rev 19:7,8 We being the Bride of Christ have now made ourselves ready for His coming as those who are still alive at this time and asleep in the grave have endured until the last day when Christ returns and destroys the beast and false prophet and sends His angels out to gather the Bride up to meet Jesus in the air.

Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured until Jesus came back in the clouds for us

Rev 20:12-15 The Great White Throne judgment and Jesus judgment for the works we did or did not do for him here on earth
 
"There is no scripture that speaks of a seven year Great Tribulation"

Right, so how did one get into the picture?

I - like FHG - used to believe in a PreTrib rapture.

But I came to realize that it was WRONG to separate the 69th and 70th "week"of Daniel with a prolonged GAP.

This idea that "the prophetic clock stopped" and was "put on hold" is central to PreTrib. I rejected it, seeing no reason the 70 shauvim of Daniel did not RUN CONCURRENTLY, ending with stoning of Stephen. There was no justification for the alleged "gap", IMO.

The number of years the Jews would spend in Egypt ran CONCURRENTLY, the 70 weeks ran CONCURRENTLY, and are over.

That book of Revelation speaks of a 3 1/2 year (42 month) period, to me, does not mean that it is "part of Daniel's 70 weeks" at all.

I believe in dual/multiple fulfillment of prophecy. A "woman of marriage-able age gives birth in Isaiah' s time, a VIRGIN gives birth to Christ...

Antiochus Epiphanes slaughtering a pig on the altar is an ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION, yet Jesus tells his followers to look for another one. They do and flee to Pella.
 
Daniel Chapters 7 and 9 have been misinterpreted for the purpose of backing up the theory of the beast and the Antichrist. I will start with Chapter 7 to show you what the meaning of the four beast are and then break down Daniel 9:24-27 to show you that it was Daniels vision of the birth and the resurrection of Christ. Please read these Chapters and verses very carefully and allow the Holy Spirit teach you truth.

Daniel Chapter 7 was an interpretation of a dream that Nebuchadnezzar had about four nations. Within these four nations we see how Satan tries to rule through man, but the kingdom of God prevails in judgment against these nations and the nations are turned over to the people of God for eternity. Notice also where these present day places in parentheses are located. Pagan nations also were often called beast in the Old Testament, which shows us to not take some words literally as many are also symbolic for our spiritual understanding.

Four nations:
Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon.

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire:
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.
 
These pretrib theories started with Margaret MacDonald in Port Glasgow, Scotland who first told others of a vision she had in 1830. She admitted the vision seemed evil and dark, but many preachers of that time ran with it and eventually was handed down to us through such men as J.N. Darby, Edward Irving, C.I. Lewis and many others to present day. Notice the word theory. Theory is just the carnal minds way of interpreting something.
 
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

God gave Israel 490 years to repent after their 70 year captivity in Babylon when the Medes and Persians conquered Babylon (Chaldeans) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshiping as they continue to follow Judaism and receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually taken over by the Roman Empire. Malachi Chapter 1-4.

The people were allowed back in the land and Israel was again formed; however, the people did receive punishment as the kingdom was taken away. Additionally, for approximately 2500 years, from 586 BC until 1948, the nation was under the authority of a foreign power. Israel never again had a king from the messianic line of David to sit and rule.

Israel was given 490 years to deal with the sin of the nation and prepare for the coming of King Messiah. The prophecy would start with the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem. Messiah, the prince, would come exactly 483 years (69 weeks) after the command was given. Then the Messiah would be cut off or killed for others. After the 69 weeks, Messiah would be killed, and Jerusalem and the temple would once again be destroyed and made desolate. There would be wars and desolation of Jerusalem for an unspecified period of time and then the end would come. This prophecy allows for the exact time for the first coming of Messiah to be determined.

Daniel separated the 70th week, the last seven years, from the previous 69 weeks. The 70th week was specially separated from all the other years. This prophecy gives conclusive proof that only Jesus of Nazareth can be Israel ’s King Messiah, the Savior of mankind.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed at least twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times.
 
There are three woes mentioned in Revelations. God would not have bothered giving us all of this if we were going to be taken out of here. Once we are caught up to Christ the door of Salvation is closed forever and then comes judgement.

First woe
First trumpet Rev 8:6-7
Second trumpet Rev 8:8,9
Third trumpet Rev 8:10,11
Fourth trumpet Rev 8:12,13
Fifth trumpet Rev 9:1-12
Second woe
Sixth trumpet Rev 9:13 through 11:14
Third woe
Seventh trumpet Rev 11:15 through Rev 20:15 (seventh trumpet includes all the events that unfold and ends with the great white throne judgment)
 
i am a pretribber based on the fact that:
1. the antichrist can not be revealed until HE who holds him back is taken out of the way - 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7
2. we are promised that the Holy Spirit will never leave us so if He is taken out of the way we must go with Him - John 14:16
3. we are not appointed to suffer wrath - 1 Thessalonians 5:9

i have friends who are mid and post tribbers - that is fine with me - it's not something that impacts how i live - i spend my time getting stronger in relationship with God so what ever time the rapture happens will not change my pursuit of God

i have a pastor friend who says that there are actually 3 raptures - so could be we are all correct
 
In all honesty, I used to read extensively on this "origin of PreTrib" stuff. John Nelson Darby had written his stuff as early as 1827.

In 1830, Margaret Macdonald had her vision - but guess what?

IT'S NOT PRE-TRIB.

Maggie saw the church going through the Trib. 'read her vision account, it's NOT PRE-TRIB.

Darby did visit Margaret, where she lived with her two brothers, Edward Irving knew her also - Irving learned Spanish so he could translate Manuel Dr Lacunza' s THE COMING OF MESSIAH IN GLORY AND MAJESTY

Lotta stuff about Johnny, Eddie and Maggie been spun different by fly-aways and post-toasties over the years
 
for_his_glory said:
PART 1

How do you interpret the word of God? Do you allow others to teach you or do you read scripture to know for a surety of what you are being taught is truth? There is so much deception in the world when it comes to the word of God and how it is being taught to us. Many people love to jump on the band wagon of monetary gain by teaching a popular word that sounds good to the ear, but is damaging to your very soul. God calls this the falling away, which means people allowing themselves to be deceived by another gospel other than that of the Gospel of Christ.

Ministries are using the Church, television and the internet as their platforms to reach all the nations across the world with their philosophies and theories as they calculate the end times and the coming of Christ. Thousands of books and articles have been written on this subject and became popular in the early 1800’s. When something evolves into popularity it becomes socially acceptable in the way it presents itself and we allow ourselves to believe in something we know very little about. This is the same with the word of God if it is received as a majority rule teaching, but in all reality is Satan’s twisted word of God being taught by those who have been deceived without realizing it, but they will still stand with no excuse for ignorance.

I allowed myself to fall prey to these pretrib teachings as when scripture was presented to support their theories it all made sense to me. I was learning with a carnal mind at the time that knew nothing of the Spiritual teachings of the doctrines of Christ because I did not have Spiritual ears to hear or Spiritual eyes to see. Many years I followed these teachings and believed them and even taught them to others until I started reading the book of Revelation for myself and these theories suddenly did not set well in my spirit as the Holy Spirit started revealing truth to me.

I guess you can pick and choose scripture to support anything you want, but when you bring the whole of Gods word together it will expose truth and when you know truth then Satan can not blindside you into believing his twisted word of God. Remember, Satan is a roaring lion seeking whom he can devour.

I have tried to condense this chapter as the end times can be a lengthy study filled with many scriptures that support we will go through much tribulation, but if we endure until the end of this present world we will see Satan cast into the lake of fire forever then we will be with the Lord forever. Please read all the scriptures given and not only read them, but read the whole chapter they are taken from by allowing the Holy Spirit open your Spiritual eyes so you will not be taken as a thief in the night when Jesus returns for his bride. Do not believe what I say, but believe the word for what God has already said.
Click to expand...


Amen.
 
Truthfrees said:
i am a pretribber based on the fact that:
1. the antichrist can not be revealed until HE who holds him back is taken out of the way - 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7
Click to expand...

If we read on to verse 8, we see that the antichrist is destroyed by the coming of the Lord.


And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:6-8


  • and destroy with the brightness of His coming.


Remember the resurrection and rapture also occur at His coming.



For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15




JLB
 
Truthfrees said:
i am a pretribber based on the fact that:
1. the antichrist can not be revealed until HE who holds him back is taken out of the way - 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7
2. we are promised that the Holy Spirit will never leave us so if He is taken out of the way we must go with Him - John 14:16
3. we are not appointed to suffer wrath - 1 Thessalonians 5:9

i have friends who are mid and post tribbers - that is fine with me - it's not something that impacts how i live - i spend my time getting stronger in relationship with God so what ever time the rapture happens will not change my pursuit of God

i have a pastor friend who says that there are actually 3 raptures - so could be we are all correct
Click to expand...

Not to sway you one way or another, but I can't see anywhere in those scriptures you gave that even comes close to any pretrib rapture or Jesus being the one who holds back the son of perdition who is the last antichrist, 1 John 2:18, 19. The Holy Spirit indwells the believers and will never leave them until we are all caught up to Jesus on the last day. We are not appointed to suffer God's wrath to come, but will be protected as we are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, Ephesians 4:30, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58

If you read 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 the he in vs. 6, 7 is the son of perdition who is being withheld for now and will be revealed in his time as for now he is a mystery even now working his iniquity. It is the son of perdition that will be taken out of the way when Christ returns on the last day. This doesn't happen until the seventh trumpet is sounded and the beast out of the sea and out of the earth have reigned here on earth for 3 1/2 years causing many to take its mark. Then will Christ return on the last day and take the beast and its false prophet casting them into the lake of fire, Matthew 24:29-31; John 6:40; 1 Corinthians 15:51, 52; Rev 19.
 
Anto9us2 said:
First John 2:18
John said there were "many antichrists" even in his own time.
Click to expand...

Yes. Agreed.


Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18


John said there were many antichrist’s that have come.


He also said that the Antichrist is coming (future).




JLB
 
Anto9us2 said:
One possibility is that I might just

DIE

Before any rapture occurs.

"He was crossing the street, not looking where he was going, thinkin' about Daniel's 70 weeks, and WHAM- the truck hit him".
Click to expand...
Escape by the death of the body is how I read REV 3:10 just as the similar promise to King Josiah was fulfilled.
Rev 3:10
Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
Rev 14:13
Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top