Pretrib Teachings Damaging to Our Very Soul - Part 1

[JLB]

if one is truly saved there will be no lost 4 ever .that is not osas doctrine its truth if we are children of the light how can night over take us ,

Jesus taught us we are to remain in Him.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here is how the scripture teaches us to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24




JLB

 

[JLB]

if one is truly saved there will be no lost 4 ever .that is not osas doctrine its truth if we are children of the light how can night over take us , if we know the real thing then the fake can not deceive us. i will say this again i am not pre trib i am be ready but the pre trib teaching i have heard .teaches to guard against false hoods . that includes David Jeremiah in fact i have book wrote by him Jesus final warning.. one other i have is i though i would never see the day.. both books of warning the real depiction is living on false hope

Do you believe that Christians who take the mark of the beast are still saved?


JLB

 

[daninthelionsden]

The most frightening aspect about thinking we will not have to face persecution during the tribulation is no one is preparing themselves or their family.

I addition if they or their deceived family members take the mark of the beast, thinking they must do this to survive, then they will be eternally lost.


Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:9-12


I would hate to be responsible for deceiving a multitude of people with false doctrine about the great tribulation that caused them to become lost forever and suffer in this way.





JLB

There was a fella where I worked. When asked if he would accept the Mark of the Beast, he replied "Absolutely, because it can't be the Mark, cuz I'd already have been raptured if it was.".........sound dangerous?

 

[JLB]

There was a fella where I worked. When asked if he would accept the Mark of the Beast, he replied "Absolutely, because it can't be the Mark, cuz I'd already have been raptured if it was.".........sound dangerous?

Absolutely sounds dangerous.

That’s the most dangerous thing I have ever heard.


This is the very reason for this thread, to help Christians come to the realization of the truth about the rapture and the coming of the Lord, so they won’t be deceived any longer about it.


The resurrection and rapture as well as the destruction of the antichrist all occur at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17


The resurrection of the dead in Christ and the rapture occur at His coming, in which all of the Lord’s people, whether on earth or in heaven will he “gathered together” to be with the Lord.

And we will always be with the Lord!

• Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

This occurs at His coming.

• we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep

The other thing that happens at His coming is the destruction of the antichrist and all the wicked.


And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
2 Thessalonians 2:8



The resurrection, the rapture and the destruction of the antichrist, all occur at His coming.

• Immediately after the tribulation of those days...they will see the Son of Man coming

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31



JLB

 

[BABerean2]

• Immediately after the tribulation of those days...they will see the Son of Man coming

In Luke's Gospel account the timing of Christ's Second Coming is given when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Paul makes reference to the same time period in Romans chapter 11. Based on this, Do you think the tribulation period could be the entire Church Age?

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

.

 

[OzSpen]

In Luke's Gospel account the timing of Christ's Second Coming is given when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Paul makes reference to the same time period in Romans chapter 11. Based on this, Do you think the tribulation period could be the entire Church Age?

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Berean,

Welcome to CFnet. I hope you have many profitable discussions here about the things of the Lord.

Do you consider there is a difference biblically between the Tribulation and the Great Tribulation?

Oz

 

[JLB]

In Luke's Gospel account the timing of Christ's Second Coming is given when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Paul makes reference to the same time period in Romans chapter 11. Based on this, Do you think the tribulation period could be the entire Church Age?

Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

.

Welcome back.



The tribulation is three and a half years.

1260 days.

A time, times and a half a time.

In the middle of the week.


“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),...For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. Matthew 24:15,21



JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi @ BABerean2 and welcome to CF.

The fullness of the Gentiles makes up all of Israel that will be saved. As Ephraim mixed himself up with other nations that was a foreshadowing of the Gentiles being grafted into Israel meaning all of Israel will be saved that have faith in God as being part of the covenant God made with Abraham, Genesis 12:1-3; 48:17-19; Hosea 7:8. Jesus told the Apostles to proclaim the Gospel first in Jerusalem, then Judea, then Samaria and then to the ends of the world, Acts 1:8; 8:14-17, Samaria is the fulfillment of the restoration of Israel as both Jew and Gentiles both dwelt there.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The Church, which represents the bride of Christ, will face seeing much tribulation as it will be hard to bare seeing Gods wrath poured out on the unjust as we are sent out to preach to them before we enter into the kingdom of God (New Jerusalem). There are many false teachings that teach we are taken out of here before some seven year Great Tribulation, but there is no scripture that speaks of a seven year Great Tribulation, but only 3 1/2 years. Some also teach that after Rev Chapter 4 the Church is no longer here on earth. If this were the case then why did Jesus say that those who endure until the end will be saved. The end of what, the end of days or as scripture calls it that great and terrible day of the Lord when final judgment will be passed as the Sheep are separated from the goats and the goats are cast into the lake of fire with Satan, the beast and false prophets.

By studying all the scriptures below in Revelations I come to the conclusion we will see much tribulation, but not to fear what must come, but stand strong in the faith of Christ Jesus so we can endure until the coming of the Lord. We need to be His witnesses as a faithful servant until He returns. God's wrath is not for the elect of God as they are kept from it falling on them and when we see the abomination that causes desolation, Daniel Chater 7; Matthew 24:15-22; Rev Chapter 13, we are to flee from taking its mark as we stand in a greater faith in Christ that we need not fear that which has to come first before Christ returns, Matthew 10:28, but that we need to be prepared as His Bride when He does return on the last day and destroys the beast and false prophet at His coming, Rev 19.

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God as we are also His disciples.

Mat 24:13,29-31 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 3:5; 19:8 Jesus is telling us to watch for the signs of His coming and to overcome so that our names are not blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 5:13; 6:17; 7:1-5 On earth and under the earth are those who are still here until the end of days as God's wrath begins with the opening of the seventh seal.

Rev 6:9-11 Note where John says fellow servants and brethren that should be killed as they were, which means those of the elect of God who refuse to take the mark of the beast and will die a martyr's death for their faith in Christ.

Rev 7:13-17 Which came out of great tribulation is the fullness of the Gentiles who also died a martyr's death for the sake of Christ.

Rev 8:13 Three woes are that of warning the people on earth that the last three trumpets are about to sound.

Rev 13:11-18 Here John is showing us about mystery Babylon ruling the world as a one world government. 666 represents the number of the beast and the mark is the action of the hands and thoughts of the mind as many will be deceived and accept this mark.

Rev 14:14-20 The harvest of Gods Children who are still alive at this time as they are being protected against the vial judgments that will fall on those who have rejected Christ.

Rev 16:11,15 And they repented not. The elect of God are told to watch for the return of Christ as He comes like a theif and we are to keep our garments clean and not found in shame

Rev 18:23, 24 We have now come out of great tribulation through the persecution of the revived Roman Empire and Christ is about to return for His Bride

Rev 19:7,8 We being the Bride of Christ have now made ourselves ready for His coming as those who are still alive at this time and asleep in the grave have endured until the last day when Christ returns and destroys the beast and false prophet and sends His angels out to gather the Bride up to meet Jesus in the air.

Rev 20:4-6 These verses show that we went through much annihilation and endured until the end being the last day when Christ returns.

Rev 20:12-15 The Great White Throne judgment and Jesus judgment for the works we did or did not do for him here on earth

 

[JLB]

(Revelation 3:10) we could take these 2 scriptures and GO a. PRE TRIB OR b the tribulation saints then took out . my self i do lean more in to mid way .the latter half is to be worse this is me i could be wrong i could be right Either way he will make away of escape

Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Revelation 3:10

1. This was written to the church at Philadelphia, during the days that the Apostle John was alive on earth, whereas the great tribulation will occur some time in the future of 2019.

​

2. The word “keep” means to guard or protect, indicating that the faithful people would be protected during the trial that would come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. IOW, There would be no need to guard or protect people who are raptured. Noah was protected while the flood destroyed everyone else. Just as in the days of Noah...​

JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Revelation 3:10

1. This was written to the church at Philadelphia, during the days that the Apostle John was alive on earth, whereas the great tribulation will occur some time in the future of 2019.

​

2. The word “keep” means to guard or protect, indicating that the faithful people would be protected during the trial that would come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. IOW, There would be no need to guard or protect people who are raptured. Noah was protected while the flood destroyed everyone else. Just as in the days of Noah...​

JLB

You said "whereas the great tribulation will occur some time in the future of 2019". Can you elaborate on this date of 2019?

God's end of days great wrath/tribulation comes from God's longsuffering and patience coming to an end, 2 Peter 3:9, 10. This will be a time of trial on how faithful we will be to God as those who are of God's own that are still alive at this time have Gods seal on them by that of the indwelling Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, which will be at that time, as during this time like times past we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 4:30, but, to trust God in all things even for our provision during God's wrath as we can read most resources that help sustain us will be destroyed and this is why many will take the mark of the beast.

But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be, Matthew 24:37-39. Jesus will come in like a flood destroying the beast and false prophet casting them alive into the lake of fire than will He slain all those world leaders from every nation that have followed after the beast and it's false prophet, (son of perdition) as He does this while being in the air. At this time Jesus will also send out His army of angels that He brings down with Him as He sends them out to the four corners of the earth to gather all who are His own, alive and in the grave, Rev 19:11-21; Matthew 24:29-31.