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Bible Study Propitiation

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JM

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Propitiation, according to Strongs, is an "appeasing" of God's wrath for sin...the removal of wrath.

Ro 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

We are declared righteous before God due to the propitiation of our sins.

1Jo 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Jo 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

If 'whole world' means every single person, as I DO NOT believe it does, then ALL meaning ALL have been declared righteous before God. If Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world then the world will be saved...

As the Jews at the time believed, the 'world' was used to any non-jewish person, when the N.T. speaks about Jesus dying for the 'whole world' this doesn't mean every single human being or everyone would be saved, it includes people from outside the Jewish community and faith.

Since all are not saved then Jesus could not have died for all men.

Jason
PS: This is not a UR thread. :biggrin
 
R

Rockhead

Guest
Jason said:
Propitiation, according to Strongs, is an "appeasing" of God's wrath for sin...the removal of wrath.

Ro 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

We are declared righteous before God due to the propitiation of our sins.

1Jo 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Jo 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

If 'whole world' means every single person, as I DO NOT believe it does, then ALL meaning ALL have been declared righteous before God. If Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world then the world will be saved...

As the Jews at the time believed, the 'world' was used to any non-jewish person, when the N.T. speaks about Jesus dying for the 'whole world' this doesn't mean every single human being or everyone would be saved, it includes people from outside the Jewish community and faith.

Since all are not saved then Jesus could not have died for all men.

Jason
PS: This is not a UR thread. :biggrin
And He (kai autov). The He is emphatic: that same Jesus: He himself. The propitiation (ilasmov). Only here and iv. 10. From iJlaskomai to appease, to conciliate to one's self, which occurs Luke xxviii. 13; Hebrews ii. 17. The noun means originally an appeasing or propitiating, and passes, through Alexandrine usage, into the sense of the means of appeasing, as here. The construction is to be particularly noted; for, in the matter of (peri) our sins; the genitive case of that for which propitiation is made. In Heb. ii. 17, the accusative case, also of the sins to be propitiated. In classical usage, on the other hand, the habitual construction is the accusative (direct objective case), of the person propitiated. So in Homer, of the gods. Qeon iJlaskesqai is to make a God propitious to one. See "Iliad," 1, 386, 472. Of men whom one wishes to conciliate by divine honors after death. So Herodotus, of Philip of Crotona. "His beauty gained him honors at the hands of the Egestaeans which they never accorded to any one else; for they raised a hero-temple over his grave, and they still propitiate him (auton ilaskontai) with sacrifices" (v. 47). Again, "The Parians, having propitiated Themistocles (Qemistoklea ilasamenoi) with gifts, escaped the visits of the army" (viii. 112). The change from this construction shows, to quote Canon Westcott, "that the scriptural conception of the verb is not that of appeasing one who is angry, with a personal feeling, against the offender; but of altering the character of that which, from without, occasions a necessary alienation, and interposes an inevitable obstacle to fellowship. Such phrases as 'propitiating God,' and God 'being reconciled' are foreign to the language of the New Testament. Man is reconciled (2 Cor. v. 18 sqq.; Rom. v. 10 sq.). There is a propitiation in the matter of the sin or of the sinner." Marvin Vincent N.T. Word Studies
 
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Rockhead

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Jason said:
If 'whole world' means every single person, as I DO NOT believe it does, then ALL meaning ALL have been declared righteous before God. If Jesus Christ died for the sins of the world then the world will be saved...
All does not mean all. :o Whole is not whole? :o

Whole

http://www.menfak.no/bibelprog/vines?word=¯t0003329

Therefore as by the offence of one judgement came upon all mankind unto condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all mankind unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Romans 5:18,19
 
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Rockhead

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http://www.menfak.no/bibelprog/vines?word=¯t000000085

All radically means all

<A-1,Adjective,3956,pas>
radically means "all." Used without the article it means "every," every kind or variety. So the RV marg. in Eph. 2:21, "every building," and the text in Eph. 3:15, "every family," and the RV marg. of Acts 2:36, "every house;" or it may signify "the highest degree," the maximum of what is referred to, as, "with all boldness" Acts 4:29. Before proper names of countries, cities and nations, and before collective terms, like "Israel," it signifies either "all" or "the whole," e.g., Matt. 2:3; Acts 2:36. Used with the article, it means the whole of one object. In the plural it signifies "the totality of the persons or things referred to." Used without a noun it virtually becomes a pronoun, meaning "everyone" or "anyone." In the plural with a noun it means "all." One form of the neuter plural (panta) signifies "wholly, together, in all ways, in all things," Acts 20:35; 1 Cor. 9:25. The neuter plural without the article signifies "all things severally," e.g., John 1:3; 1 Cor. 2:10; preceded by the article it denotes "all things," as constituting a whole, e.g., Rom. 11:36; 1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 3:9. See EVERY, Note (1), WHOLE.
Therefore as by the offence of one judgement came upon all mankind unto condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all mankind unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Romans 5:18,19
All radically means all!

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. Hebrews 2:9
http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyB ... anguage=en
 

JM

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Joined
Mar 30, 2003
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2,818
If all means all in every case then all meaning all are saved. If world means world (every single person) then Jesus died for there sins and if they end up in hell, they are punished for nothing!

We then conclude, Christ died for some of the sins of all men, Christ died for all the sins of some men or Christ died for all the sins of all men? Which is it?

Hebrews 9:28, "So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him." (See also 13:20; Isaiah 53:11-12.)

Mark 10:45, in accord with Revelation 5:9,does not say that Jesus came to ransom all men. It says, "For the Son of man also came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

Propitiated sins cannot be punished. Otherwise propitiation loses its meaning.

Peace
j
 

AVBunyan

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Joined
Aug 14, 2003
Messages
1,156
Nice work

Jason said:
If all means all in every case then all meaning all are saved. If world means world (every single person) then Jesus died for there sins and if they end up in hell, they are punished for nothing!

We then conclude, Christ died for some of the sins of all men, Christ died for all the sins of some men or Christ died for all the sins of all men? Which is it?
Nice OP Jason - folks today do not understand the vital "tion" words from Paull's epistles. Because of the lack of understanding of these key words salvation is one of the least understood concepts in the Bible and if you are off on salvation then all ealse falls apart. Every truth hindges on this sound doctrine.

In answer to your question above:

"Christ died for all the sins of some men." Couldn't be any other way and you covered that. Good job.

And if Christ did die for all and not just His elect then you have people in hell right now with their sins forgiven! :o

God bless
 
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Rockhead

Guest
Jason said:
We then conclude, Christ died for some of the sins of all men, Christ died for all the sins of some men or Christ died for all the sins of all men? Which is it?
You have convinced me! Jesus Christ did not die for your sins!

Therefore as by the offence of one judgement came upon all mankind unto condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all mankind unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Romans 5:18,19
Not all were made sinners, only "many"! :o And of course, that does not include you,;and therefore we then conclude that Jason is not a part of all mankind in the first or last Adam. ;-)
 

JM

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2003
Messages
2,818
Rockhead said:
Jason said:
We then conclude, Christ died for some of the sins of all men, Christ died for all the sins of some men or Christ died for all the sins of all men? Which is it?
You have convinced me! Jesus Christ did not die for your sins!

Therefore as by the offence of one judgement came upon all mankind unto condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all mankind unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Romans 5:18,19
Not all were made sinners, only "many"! :o And of course, that does not include you,;and therefore we then conclude that Jason is not a part of all mankind in the first or last Adam. ;-)
Classic example of how to avoid facts, give an emotional response!
 
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