Proposition: There Is No Compelling Argument For A Future Antichrist.

[JohnDB]

I'm just being chatty with all that up there.

Perfectly acceptable being chatty.

Baptist churches (same as both you and I attend) has a rather wide rim on their pail of othodoxy and accepted beliefs.

I sit on the rim of the pail of othodoxy...with both legs hanging outside the pail. Problems arise when people agree with what I propose in Sunday School class. So I try to keep quiet...but sometimes both hands won't hold...and sometimes you just have to walk away. Especially when you run across a Calvinists... LOL

But as Herschel Hobbs said the one definable characteristic of Baptist is that they are undefinable.

 

[JLB]

In my view your argument is this:
(1) Isaiah 9:6-7 refers to the Lord Jesus.
(2) Isaiah 9:6-7 does not mention the name of the Lord Jesus.
(3) THEREFORE the mere mention of antichrist, in John's epistles, DOES or CAN refer to other Biblical characters like the "beast" , the "false prophet, the "man of sin" etc

My view is that (1), (2), and (3) up there fails to demonstrate that the proposition of my Opening Post is false, which says: There Are No Compelling Arguments For A Future Antichrist.

The following are crucial facts that bear upon this subject and MUST be considered when comparing Isaiah 9:6-7 with John's brief mention of antichrists:

(A) The "antichrists" ( plural) of John's epistles lived in the first century in the time when John wrote his epistles.

(B) In John's epistles there were MANY antichrists, not just one antichrist. So this fact destroys the notion that the antichrist is a single individual that will appear in the future. (Add to this (A) up there that correctly says the antichrist of John's epistles lived in the first century.)

(C) The text of Isaiah 9:6-7 has details that could NOT possibly refer to any other than God the Father or some other member of the Holy Trinity. The brief 4 mentions of "antichrist" in John's epistles have absolutely nothing that connects them with any other character in the Bible. That is obviously NOT true for Isaiah 9:6-7, which clearly connects to a Divine Being. Note these particulars from Isaiah 9:6-7

(1) He will be called Mighty God
(2) He will be called Everlasting Father.
(3) Of the greatness of His government and peace there will BE NO END.
(4) He will reign on David's throne . . .with justice and righteousness . . .FOREVER.
(5) For to us a child is born, to us a son is given
The Christian Church has correctly reached the conclusion that these 5 statements present reasonable evidence that Isaiah 9:6-7 connects to the Lord Jesus.

Those 5 statements from Isaiah 9:6-7 have a certain and clear connection to a Divine Being (namely the Lord Jesus) that the 4 brief mentions of antichrist in John's epistles do not have -- which connects to absolutely nothing else.

In other words:
-- Isaiah 9:6-7 clearly and compellingly CONNECTS to a Divine Being and (for "unto us a son is given" tells us it is the Lord Jesus)

-- John's mention of antichrist connects to NOTHING else.

(D)The mere mention of antichrists in John's epistles have zero details that will permit a future antichrist. John's antichrists (plural) clearly refers to individuals living in the time of the first century.

Here is the entire passage of Isaiah 9:6-7
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this. Isaiah 9:6-7

There are many different scriptures that use many different names to describe Jesus Christ.


There are many different scriptures that use many different names to describe the false Christ.


JLB

 

[JAG ..]

Perfectly acceptable being chatty.

Baptist churches (same as both you and I attend) has a rather wide rim on their pail of othodoxy and accepted beliefs.

I sit on the rim of the pail of othodoxy...with both legs hanging outside the pail. Problems arise when people agree with what I propose in Sunday School class. So I try to keep quiet...but sometimes both hands won't hold...and sometimes you just have to walk away. Especially when you run across a Calvinists... LOL

But as Herschel Hobbs said the one definable characteristic of Baptist is that they are undefinable.

"Perfectly acceptable being chatty."__JohnDB

That's good to hear. Its nice to take a break from all the bickering and haggling and arguing, even though I do it, I get tired of the constant "thread wars" that haunt the Internet at large. Just about in every forum and usually by about page 2 or 3 of the thread, they smell "blood in the water" and they conclude it's "time to feed" /Big Grin

The Protestants and the Catholics go at each other viciously and usually no mercy is shown by either side. I strongly disagree with Roman Catholicism, but I don't call them names and insult them. I say preach the gospel to them and leave the results to the power of the Holy Spirit.

"Especially when you run across a Calvinists... LOL"___JohnDB

I used to have strong Calvinistic leanings, but I am to the place where I don't get involved in that area anymore. I can understand both positions. I don't think Christendom is going to settle that issue anytime soon. It has been argued back and forth for centuries and we seemingly are not even close to reaching a consensus. I settle it for myself this way: I give God all the credit for all the good things and I give man all the blame for all the bad things.

Some say the OSAS thingy has been beat to death on the Internet, yet it somehow still lives on, and is alive and kicking all over the web.

"But as Herschel Hobbs said the one definable characteristic of Baptist is that they are undefinable."___JohnDB

Agreed.
We Baptist types are quite a smorgasbord. If you count the store front start-ups, its mind boggling how many different flavors of Baptists there are in just America, and when you count them worldwide, it goes off the charts. At least none of them handle snakes in their worship services . . .yet . . . /Grin

I wonder if there are any Baptists that speak in tongues? I expect you could find some that do. Speaking in tongues is a big thing these days, You Tube is saturated with speaking in tongues videos.

Later . . .

 

[jerry63935]

the Antichrist

the word anti christ comes from the name Antiochus
Epiphanes iv . the Bible does say there are many antichrist present . there is coming a type world leader . paul calls it the mystery of iniquity . i also feel he is alive today at work in the background .

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. this describes his mission it sure appears he is at work at this very moment

 

[JLB]

i also feel he is alive today at work in the background .

This is just my two cents...


Some believe Prince Charles of Wales is the antichrist because of several reasons.


The title Prince Charles of Wales adds up to 666 in Greek and Hebrew. (I have not verified) not in to Gematria.

He is a ruler of a little country. Little Horn


The heraldic symbol of Wales became the red dragon when he turned 13.


He is in line to take the throne when Queen Elizabeth steps down. Which that is the region of Roman Empire.


There’s more, but I think this is enough.


He seems old, though.


Again, just my two cents.



JLB

 

[JLB]

This is just my two cents...


Some believe Prince Charles of Wales is the antichrist because of several reasons.


The title Prince Charles of Wales adds up to 666 in Greek and Hebrew. (I have not verified) not in to Gematria.

He is a ruler of a little country. Little Horn


The heraldic symbol of Wales became the red dragon when he turned 13.


He is in line to take the throne when Queen Elizabeth steps down. Which that is the region of Roman Empire.


There’s more, but I think this is enough.


He seems old, though.


Again, just my two cents.



JLB

Looks like the Heraldic Symbol of Wales,the Red Dragon was official in 1959, which would have been when he was 12.

He was born in 1948, November 14.

I think it was officially recognized by Queen Elizabeth in 1959.

Some other information says it was in 1953.


Interestingly enough, one of the names of the antichrist is the
“prince who is to come”.


“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
Daniel 9:26-27




JLB

 

[jerry63935]

This is just my two cents...

everyone has 2 cents the antichrist will not be revealed till the Church which holds the power of the spirit in us. till we are taken away.i believe once were out of here.the restraint of the Holy Spirit will be taken out. all hell will break loose. we think its crazy now just wait.

 

[JLB]

everyone has 2 cents we think its crazy now just wait.

Yes it going to get real here on planet earth.

the antichrist will not be revealed till the Church which holds the power of the spirit in us. till we are taken away.i believe once were out of here.the restraint of the Holy Spirit will be taken out. all hell will break loose.

Here are the three main things that occur at His coming.


For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 1 Thessalonians 4:15

• The Resurrection: The first thing that occurs is the resurrection of the dead in Christ.

that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep

• The Rapture: The second thing that occurs at His coming is the Rapture.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

• The destruction of the antichrist: Then the third thing that occurs when the Church is gathered together with the Lord in the air is the destruction of the antichrist and the wicked.

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 2 Thessalonians 2:8



Summed Up —

The three main things that occur at His coming.

1. The Resurrection
2. The Rapture
3. The destruction of the antichrist

JLB

 

[jerry63935]

Summed Up —

The three main things that occur at His coming.

1. The Resurrection
2. The Rapture
3. The destruction of the antichrist

pretty much ready or not here he comes

 

[jasonc]

The title and name of the antiochus,is in Greek.the words anti,and Christ(christos)is Latin.

Greek use the latter a,to mean anti,or against or no.as in atheist,just pointing that out .

 

[Consecrated Life]

Call him what you like , but God has declared that Satan, incarnate in human flesh, is coming to your neighborhood :
" And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed
and her seed ,it shall bruise they head , and thou shalt bruise his heel ,"
( Genesis 3:15 )
The spirit of Satan will have his "seed" manifested in the flesh just as God was manifested in the flesh of Jesus .
Which makes perfect sense since it has always been Satan's goal to do what God's does, only better:
" I will be like the most High. " ( Isaiah 14:14 )
God's heel of flesh was " bruised " when it was nailed to the cross in the form of His Son .
Satan's head of flesh is yet to be "bruised "
The only way this can happen is for Satan to assume human flesh through "thy seed ".
You cannot " bruise the head " of a spirit after all .
Although it will only last for a very short time Satan will have his day of being worshiped in the flesh on earth .
God has declared it .

 

[Consecrated Life]

Says Dr. Loraine Boettner

". . . not one single reference in Daniel or Ezekiel or Paul or the Book of Revelation . . .
which (some) allege refer to the Antichrist is connected in any way with the verses in
the epistles of John that mention the antichrist. All is based on inference. Let the reader
search for himself and see how far-fetched that (alleged) connection is.

We make bold to say that this picture of Antichrist as a (future) world ruler . . . is pure fiction

I believe you are operating with a distinction that has no difference .
Some things we can know for certain from scripture .
Satan's greatest desire is to worshiped .
God will allow Satan his day & he will be worshiped on a massive scale on earth for a short period of time .
That is a yes or a no ?
We can then be certain that when he is allowed his day he will not manifest himself as horned creature complete with hooves and a tail .
He will manifest as a person of irresistible beauty and intelligence and never before seen miraculous power to do good .
And the name that he will have on that day WILL NOT be antichrist .

" I am come in my Father's name and ye receive me not , if another
shall come IN HIS OWN NAME, him ye will receive ." ( John 5:43 )

To be hung up on what moniker Satan incarnate will have is an exercise in futility .