[__ Science __ ] protecting from emp - nationally and individually

[Truthfrees]

does anyone have techie knowledge of this issue?

can you simplify it for non techies?

bottom line was rather than using assured mutual destruction we should use this technology for mutual national defense as per reagan's proposal

it starts getting good at minute 27

 

[Razeontherock]

Simplifying emp:

NK clearly knows how to knock the US back to the stone age.

US military is largely exempt; that's why military equipment is so expensive.

Anything with a chip in it that you want to survive an EMP (from natural or man-made sources) has to be in a Faraday cage. A metal garbage can won't work because the problem will get right through the gap between the can and the lid, even though it winds around and fits snugly. Said garbage can can easily be adapted to work! Add a metal film to the gap, readily available at hardware stores. While the best type is pure copper and very expensive, something cost effective exists and is even kept right next to it on the shelves. YouTube will yield good answers, sorry I can't link it.

Thank you for raising an issue we should all be more familiar with, we are way overdue for emp from the Sun ...

 

[Truthfrees]

Simplifying emp:

NK clearly knows how to knock the US back to the stone age.

US military is largely exempt; that's why military equipment is so expensive.

Anything with a chip in it that you want to survive an EMP (from natural or man-made sources) has to be in a Faraday cage. A metal garbage can won't work because the problem will get right through the gap between the can and the lid, even though it winds around and fits snugly. Said garbage can can easily be adapted to work! Add a metal film to the gap, readily available at hardware stores. While the best type is pure copper and very expensive, something cost effective exists and is even kept right next to it on the shelves. YouTube will yield good answers, sorry I can't link it.

Thank you for raising an issue we should all be more familiar with, we are way overdue for emp from the Sun ...

did you understand what he said about strategic defense rather than mutual assured destruction?

and the pebble machine - which i guess is a defense machine that renders nukes useless - thus eliminating the arms race?

it sounds like 2-3 billion can assure american and canadian defense - i guess the american and canadian electrical grid is tied together?

 

[jasonc]

did you understand what he said about strategic defense rather than mutual assured destruction?

and the pebble machine - which i guess is a defense machine that renders nukes useless - thus eliminating the arms race?

it sounds like 2-3 billion can assure american and canadian defense - i guess the american and canadian electrical grid is tied together?

Mexico as well this would kill cell phones and also cars,scada which would also need protection as well,scada controls gas,water,sewer grids as well as electric grids

 

[Razeontherock]

Please look within your own quote to see my responses to many individual points:

did you understand what he said about strategic defense rather than mutual assured destruction?"

YES!! Sane rather than mad. I love this guy! And Congress for commissioning the commission. And while we love Trump who is also sensible enough to pay attention, rhetoric doesn't fix it.

"and the pebble machine - which i guess is a defense machine that renders nukes useless - thus eliminating the arms race?"

Brilliant pebbles = star wars under Ronnie Raygun, basically. Not a guarantee, since China has the foresight to develop the ability to knock down satellites. They've tested it; it's operational.
Which doesn't mean we shouldn't do what we can. Quite the opposite! It means we need to do what we already can, and MORE.

Nukes were obsolete as soon as WWII was over. I just hope our species wakes up to this reality, some day ...

"it sounds like 2-3 billion can assure american and canadian defense - i guess the american and canadian electrical grid is tied together?"

Still not a guarantee, no; but 3 billion is CHEAP for what we get, investing in this direction. It greatly improves survivability from regular old weather, not just sun spots and the potential for some rogue group to execute a fluke attack.
It's insane that we DON'T do this, and greatly contributes to the sense of hopelessness among our youth that feeds drug addiction and senseless violence.

Yes, our power grid is one with Canada -
while Texas' is completely separate, lol

 

[Razeontherock]

Mexico as well this would kill cell phones and also cars,scada which would also need protection as well,scada controls gas,water,sewer grids as well as electric grids

They discussed global capacity to rebuild our biggest transformers, but said nothing about any US ability to rebuild scada. Both deserve Faraday cages as well as surge suppression. It's inconceivable to me that we've left this completely unprotected while we fought the "global warming on terror," and hear law enforcement declare that domestic criminals are a greater threat.

We've got militias voluntarily guarding some critical components of our grid, but they can't do a thing about any of this ...

 

[jasonc]

Scada is a linked computer network. Hard to protect attaneas,they must be clear to emit.

 

[Razeontherock]

Gotta love auto-correct: I wrote "global warming on terror?" Um, no I didn't. That would be the global wot, WAR on terror.

 

[Truthfrees]

Scada is a linked computer network. Hard to protect attaneas,they must be clear to emit.

so is that why brilliant pebbles is supposed to be orbiting in space ready to shoot things down before they enter orbit over america?

would that save antenas and cars etc as per your and Razeontherock 's posts?

 

[Razeontherock]

Scada is a linked computer network. Hard to protect attaneas,they must be clear to emit.

Ok so the antennas get fried and the network goes down; but not catastrophically if the difficult to replace components are protected. Same concept with protecting the largest transformers:
blackout still results, but not for a decade or longer. We cannot make every part of our grid invincible, nor do we need to. There are just certain components that are SO critical as to warrant this level of protection, because they're basically irreplaceable in the event of catastrophic failure.

 

[Truthfrees]

Gotta love auto-correct: I wrote "global warming on terror?" Um, no I didn't. That would be the global wot, WAR on terror.

i was wondering - i thought maybe that was a new code name for something - but it was auto-correct - lol

 

[Truthfrees]

Mexico as well this would kill cell phones and also cars,scada which would also need protection as well,scada controls gas,water,sewer grids as well as electric grids

how does scada control gas water sewer and electric grids?

how can scada be protected? faraday cage?

 

[Razeontherock]

so is that why brilliant pebbles is in space ready to shoot things soen before they enter orbit over america?

would that save antenas and cars etc as per your and Razeontherock 's posts?

A. This defense network is not operational (unless it's black ops?)

B. It wouldn't defend against many types of threat, including weather. (solar or otherwise)
It would basically only be good against ICBM, which is plenty enough reason to implement it. IMHO our military investment should be focused on defending our borders, which is basically a foreign concept at this point in our history. That means missile defense including satellite, laser, railgun, super high speed guns firing regular old bullets that can knock big stuff down but are only good for last line of defense.
We have most of this developed, but not manufactured let alone in place. Since military development and investment is 20 years out, this NEEDS to be our priority! Our 'Pacific pivot' will turn into border defense once China dwarfs our GDP. We have time to do this, but not to mess around ...

 

[Truthfrees]

Please look within your own quote to see my responses to many individual points:

YES!! Sane rather than mad. I love this guy! And Congress for commissioning the commission. And while we love Trump who is also sensible enough to pay attention, rhetoric doesn't fix it.

Brilliant pebbles = star wars under Ronnie Raygun, basically. Not a guarantee, since China has the foresight to develop the ability to knock down satellites. They've tested it; it's operational.

Which doesn't mean we shouldn't do what we can. Quite the opposite! It means we need to do what we already can, and MORE.

Nukes were obsolete as soon as WWII was over. I just hope our species wakes up to this reality, some day ...

Still not a guarantee, no; but 3 billion is CHEAP for what we get, investing in this direction. It greatly improves survivability from regular old weather, not just sun spots and the potential for some rogue group to execute a fluke attack.

It's insane that we DON'T do this, and greatly contributes to the sense of hopelessness among our youth that feeds drug addiction and senseless violence.

Yes, our power grid is one with Canada -
while Texas' is completely separate, lol

thanks - great info

is brilliant pebbles a satellite or a space vessel? - so china could just shoot it down and then nk could detonate a nuclear emp from their 2 satellites over america? - is that what you mean by china can counter brilliant pebbles?

what do you mean by nukes were obsolete after ww2 ended? - then why do we want to stop noko from having nuclear intercontinental missiles?

i do care about this stuff and am trying to understand it

 

[Truthfrees]

A. This defense network is not operational (unless it's black ops?)

B. It wouldn't defend against many types of threat, including weather. (solar or otherwise)
It would basically only be good against ICBM, which is plenty enough reason to implement it. IMHO our military investment should be focused on defending our borders, which is basically a foreign concept at this point in our history. That means missile defense including satellite, laser, railgun, super high speed guns firing regular old bullets that can knock big stuff down but are only good for last line of defense.
We have most of this developed, but not manufactured let alone in place. Since military development and investment is 20 years out, this NEEDS to be our priority! Our 'Pacific pivot' will turn into border defense once China dwarfs our GDP. We have time to do this, but not to mess around ...

i thought peter pry was saying brilliant pebbles was the space defense against satellite nukes being used as atmospheric nuclear emp attacks - which we need to implement as the best emp defense - i think this is what he was saying

and i thought he said our icbm's are presently sufficient to protect us against enemy icbm attacks - but useless against satellite emp nuke detonation - which will cripple us for 40 years or more

he was suggesting shooting down noko's 2 satellites to our south - can we do that? - do they have a right to have 2 possibly armed satellites orbiting over us several times a day? - sounds threatening to me - especially with the recent threats to nuke us

 

[Razeontherock]

i thought peter pry was saying brilliant pebbles was the space defense against satellite nukes being used as atmospheric nuclear emp attacks - which we need to implement as the best emp defense - i think this is what he was saying

and i thought he said our icbm's are presently sufficient to protect us against enemy icbm attacks - but useless against satellite emp nuke detonation - which will cripple us for 40 years or more

he was suggesting shooting down noko's 2 satellites to our south - can we do that? - do they have a right to have 2 possibly armed satellites orbiting over us several times a day? - sounds threatening to me - especially with the recent threats to nuke us

I think it's unexplored territory to say who has the "right" to operate satellites. As much as I detest bureaucracy and over regulation, maybe it's time to start implementing some? I think there's no means. We create another "coalition of the willing?" US has the most to lose starting a war in this arena. I hate to accuse Russia and China of itching for this type of fight but you know they are, along with the growing list of other Countries with anti-US sentiment. They could greatly catch up to US by sending everybody backwards, technologically.

Brilliant Pebbles is most certainly NOT operational, at least officially. He was saying the idea and know how to make it did come out of the cold war, but we never built it. As much as I'd like US to be saavy enough to have this and keep quiet about it - I don't think so.

Our ICBMs are good for mad, not for knocking down foreign ICBMs.

I'm not sure how much missile defense capacity we actually have on our own continent. We've been much more focused on putting that technology anywhere but right here. Hopefully we've learned something and will be installing state of the art here soon ... lasers combined with railgun aka terrestrial 'rod of God' seems like a good approach to me. Gotta extend the operational life of the railgun launchers, then make a bunch.

 

[jasonc]

how does scada control gas water sewer and electric grids?

how can scada be protected? faraday cage?

A series of communication relays and network.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCADA

 

[jasonc]

Ok so the antennas get fried and the network goes down; but not catastrophically if the difficult to replace components are protected. Same concept with protecting the largest transformers:
blackout still results, but not for a decade or longer. We cannot make every part of our grid invincible, nor do we need to. There are just certain components that are SO critical as to warrant this level of protection, because they're basically irreplaceable in the event of catastrophic failure.

If whole substations go down all at once ,yes it's bad.

 

[Razeontherock]

If whole substations go down all at once ,yes it's bad.

Can we put entire substations in a Faraday cage and on a surge suppressor?

What Congress commissioned was about the entire grid being affected, not just one substation. It says our largest transformers aren't made in the US at all, and global capacity is to make like 200 / year. We have 2,000, so if they all get fried the quickest they could possibly be replaced is 10 years. Good thing they're made by our allies but still ...

He doesn't give any specifics on scada. Antennas probably aren't too hard to come by but the tricky bits, do we manufacture any of that?

 

[jasonc]

Can we put entire substations in a Faraday cage and on a surge suppressor?

What Congress commissioned was about the entire grid being affected, not just one substation. It says our largest transformers aren't made in the US at all, and global capacity is to make like 200 / year. We have 2,000, so if they all get fried the quickest they could possibly be replaced is 10 years. Good thing they're made by our allies but still ...

He doesn't give any specifics on scada. Antennas probably aren't too hard to come by but the tricky bits, do we manufacture any of that?

yes locally, here they do it. seen them do all manner. aluma tower company. they make radio towers and so forth, it takes welding and nevermind that if the wiring to the switchyard isn't working , no power to a lot. you can run on generators forever. think pr on a nationwide scale.