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Question About Holy Communion

WIP

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#1
I am a member of a small country Lutheran church. Formerly ALC, merged when the ELCA was formed, and then broke ties with the ELCA a few years ago. We have been an independent congregation ever since. Our pastor, who remained a member of the ELCA in an effort to continue efforts to bring about reform, has recently announced his pending retirement at the end of May. I won't go into details but It was not entirely his choice as there were complications that began to arise over the past year or two and part of his decision came about due to pressure by some members expressing their disapproval of things he has been doing/teaching and things that he was failing to do as our pastor.

In a meeting that I called this past Thursday evening (I'm our council chairperson), we talked about how we should not feel rushed to find a new pastor. Part of the reason is that when we broke ties with the ELCA we had it mind that eventually we would like to be part of another association and so maybe now is a good time to consider exploring that option. We also feel it is important that we wait to allow a little cooling off period and to allow some to mourn the loss of our pastor before we look at calling a new pastor. We decided to look at forming a call committee so we can begin to lay out our needs and expectations with the goal of probably putting out the call sometime late this fall.

In the mean time, it was brought up that we need an interim pastor in part so he/she can administer Holy Communion. This brought up a question in my mind. Does it require an ordained pastor to do this? When I read Scripture, I don't see where it is instructed that this is necessary. As far as I can tell, Jesus just said that whenever we do it we are to it in memory of Him. One thought we had was that we could call on our deacons fulfill this role in absence of a pastor.

For my part, I don't see any reason why we can't.

Thoughts?
 

Tessa

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#2
Hi WIP. I don't know what the belief of Lutheran church are. Whether you believe communion is the body of Christ or purely a remembrance of what the communion is all about.
If the belief is of remembrance I can see no problem in a deacon fulfilling this role. If belief is of the literal body of Christ could an elder or deacon be anointed to fulfill your temporary need.
I like the fact that you are not rushing into a new pastor too soon.
You have probably all been praying for guidance on this so I would just not hurry into the communion bit. Perhaps God will pick the right person. Could you do it like the apostles did when they needed a new apostle to make up the 12?
I agree with you though I cannot see any reason why a deacon could not be allowed to fulfill the role of communion
 
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#3
I am a member of a small country Lutheran church. Formerly ALC, merged when the ELCA was formed, and then broke ties with the ELCA a few years ago. We have been an independent congregation ever since. Our pastor, who remained a member of the ELCA in an effort to continue efforts to bring about reform, has recently announced his pending retirement at the end of May. I won't go into details but It was not entirely his choice as there were complications that began to arise over the past year or two and part of his decision came about due to pressure by some members expressing their disapproval of things he has been doing/teaching and things that he was failing to do as our pastor.

In a meeting that I called this past Thursday evening (I'm our council chairperson), we talked about how we should not feel rushed to find a new pastor. Part of the reason is that when we broke ties with the ELCA we had it mind that eventually we would like to be part of another association and so maybe now is a good time to consider exploring that option. We also feel it is important that we wait to allow a little cooling off period and to allow some to mourn the loss of our pastor before we look at calling a new pastor. We decided to look at forming a call committee so we can begin to lay out our needs and expectations with the goal of probably putting out the call sometime late this fall.

In the mean time, it was brought up that we need an interim pastor in part so he/she can administer Holy Communion. This brought up a question in my mind. Does it require an ordained pastor to do this? When I read Scripture, I don't see where it is instructed that this is necessary. As far as I can tell, Jesus just said that whenever we do it we are to it in memory of Him. One thought we had was that we could call on our deacons fulfill this role in absence of a pastor.

For my part, I don't see any reason why we can't.

Thoughts?
awwwww Religion AT ITS BEST.. i find no place in scripture where one must be ordained to serve communion ..if you are a leader of the church you should be able to administer the Lord Supper yes deacons can administer ..i know nothing about the lutheran church ..biggest problem in Church today is we have far to many carnal rules but yes i would suggest some type preacher/pastor to feed the flock unless someone is your Church has been called . if anything the Church should be praying and uniting not fussing and dividing ... i dont know a thing about a council chairperson... point Blank this is not a Business to make profit . this is God house and it should be treated as such my suggestion speak up do your Communion service .find you a preacher to fill in till you prayerfully find a pastor i leave you with this scripture seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things shall be added . wait up on the Lord
 
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#4
iam ordained through the gen Baptist the deacons can serve communion according to the Gen baptist rules .. see the gen Baptist headquarters does not control the local Church. honestly not real sure what good they do.. here is my advice do what is best for your Church .sounds like you could have a division . call a meeting read to them what the scriptures has to say about serving and partaking communion . so Church doctrines call for closed Communion ..members only i disagree with that .pray use the Bible as your guideline... like any other denom i am sure you will have those unless it is thus saith the guidelines set up by the Church org, it will not fly Isiah says come let us reason ,it sounds to me like your pastor was pushed out.. one other option if you can not get agreement. have another pastor from a association with your denom come and administer it .if that doesnt work the devil has done go in the inside of the Body
 

for_his_glory

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#5
Paul gives directions regarding the Lord’s Supper in 1Corinthians 11:23-29. Some have misunderstood verse 26, which says: "As often as ye eat this bread and drink this cup," and interpret it to say "take it as often as you please" But it does not say that!

It says "as often" as we observe it, "ye do show the LORD’S DEATH till He come." And Jesus commanded, "This do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me." (Verse 25.) We do it in remembrance of THE LORD’S DEATH - a memorial of His death. And memorials of momentous occasions always are observed annually, once a year, on the ANNIVERSARY of the event they commemorate.

Jesus instituted this New Testament ordinance ON THE EVE OF HIS DEATH. It was the 14th Abib, March/April Hebrew Lunar calendar. He was our Passover, sacrificed for us and He was sacrificed on the same exact day of the year that the Passover lambs always had been slain! As the Old Testament Passover commemorated Israel’s deliverance from Egypt, a type of sin, so the New Testament Lord’s Supper is a continuation of the Passover with different emblems commemorates Jesus' death, and our deliverance from sin. Immediately after the last Supper, Jesus and His disciples went out to Gethsemane, where, later that night, Judas Iscariot led the bloodthirsty mob who seized Jesus, and led him away to be crucified during the daylight part of the same 14th day of the month of Abib.

A Pastor is not needed as anyone who is worthy to take communion and knows what it says in scripture can administer this memorial to the congregation. You can ever take part in your own home if you do not belong or attend any Church as all is done in remembrance of that same night with Christ and His disciples.
 
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#6
Paul gives directions regarding the Lord’s Supper in 1Corinthians 11:23-29. Some have misunderstood verse 26, which says: "As often as ye eat this bread and drink this cup," and interpret it to say "take it as often as you please" But it does not say that!

It says "as often" as we observe it, "ye do show the LORD’S DEATH till He come." And Jesus commanded, "This do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me." (Verse 25.) We do it in remembrance of THE LORD’S DEATH - a memorial of His death. And memorials of momentous occasions always are observed annually, once a year, on the ANNIVERSARY of the event they commemorate.

Jesus instituted this New Testament ordinance ON THE EVE OF HIS DEATH. It was the 14th Abib, March/April Hebrew Lunar calendar. He was our Passover, sacrificed for us and He was sacrificed on the same exact day of the year that the Passover lambs always had been slain! As the Old Testament Passover commemorated Israel’s deliverance from Egypt, a type of sin, so the New Testament Lord’s Supper is a continuation of the Passover with different emblems commemorates Jesus' death, and our deliverance from sin. Immediately after the last Supper, Jesus and His disciples went out to Gethsemane, where, later that night, Judas Iscariot led the bloodthirsty mob who seized Jesus, and led him away to be crucified during the daylight part of the same 14th day of the month of Abib.

A Pastor is not needed as anyone who is worthy to take communion and knows what it says in scripture can administer this memorial to the congregation. You can ever take part in your own home if you do not belong or attend any Church as all is done in remembrance of that same night with Christ and His disciples.
religious rules gets in the way .Gen baptist only ordained can serve if i was to guess many others follow that tradition. i understand there thoughts on it as it should be treated as sacred ..but many things are not Biblical
 

StoveBolts

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#7
I am a member of a small country Lutheran church. Formerly ALC, merged when the ELCA was formed, and then broke ties with the ELCA a few years ago. We have been an independent congregation ever since. Our pastor, who remained a member of the ELCA in an effort to continue efforts to bring about reform, has recently announced his pending retirement at the end of May. I won't go into details but It was not entirely his choice as there were complications that began to arise over the past year or two and part of his decision came about due to pressure by some members expressing their disapproval of things he has been doing/teaching and things that he was failing to do as our pastor.

In a meeting that I called this past Thursday evening (I'm our council chairperson), we talked about how we should not feel rushed to find a new pastor. Part of the reason is that when we broke ties with the ELCA we had it mind that eventually we would like to be part of another association and so maybe now is a good time to consider exploring that option. We also feel it is important that we wait to allow a little cooling off period and to allow some to mourn the loss of our pastor before we look at calling a new pastor. We decided to look at forming a call committee so we can begin to lay out our needs and expectations with the goal of probably putting out the call sometime late this fall.

In the mean time, it was brought up that we need an interim pastor in part so he/she can administer Holy Communion. This brought up a question in my mind. Does it require an ordained pastor to do this? When I read Scripture, I don't see where it is instructed that this is necessary. As far as I can tell, Jesus just said that whenever we do it we are to it in memory of Him. One thought we had was that we could call on our deacons fulfill this role in absence of a pastor.

For my part, I don't see any reason why we can't.

Thoughts?
I think your thoughts are spot on. At our church, we have a table speaker who reminds us of what Jesus has done for us, and then we have 3 additional members that say prayers and assist in serving the congregation communion.

Our only requirement is that they are baptized believing followers of Christ.
 
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#8
Our pastor, who remained a member of the ELCA in an effort to continue efforts to bring about reform, has recently announced his pending retirement at the end of May. I won't go into details but It was not entirely his choice as there were complications that began to arise over the past year or two and part of his decision came about due to pressure by some members expressing their disapproval of things he has been doing/teaching and things that he was failing to do as our pastor.
if he was not in the Bible then they was alright..sounds to me like he was preaching change outside the church rules/doctrine.. he kicked over the Golden cow and broke it
 

Knotical

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#9
I have seen the spectrum on this issue, all the way from people doing it privately in their home to partaking during a corporate worship service. In my experience it has always handled more carefully when done in the context of a corporate worship service, and only done when there were proper controls in place to protect the elements. As you may bring judgement upon yourself should you partake while maintaining a sin issue which you are unwilling to repent of. The only people that are really qualified to properly protect the elements would be the elders and the pastor. As a matter of simplicity communion should only be administered by an ordained minister. Our current church has communion every Sunday, except on those rare occasions when our pastor is unable to physically be there, as has happened about a month ago when he and part of his family were out with the flu.
 

Willie T

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#12
I am a member of a small country Lutheran church. Formerly ALC, merged when the ELCA was formed, and then broke ties with the ELCA a few years ago. We have been an independent congregation ever since. Our pastor, who remained a member of the ELCA in an effort to continue efforts to bring about reform, has recently announced his pending retirement at the end of May. I won't go into details but It was not entirely his choice as there were complications that began to arise over the past year or two and part of his decision came about due to pressure by some members expressing their disapproval of things he has been doing/teaching and things that he was failing to do as our pastor.

In a meeting that I called this past Thursday evening (I'm our council chairperson), we talked about how we should not feel rushed to find a new pastor. Part of the reason is that when we broke ties with the ELCA we had it mind that eventually we would like to be part of another association and so maybe now is a good time to consider exploring that option. We also feel it is important that we wait to allow a little cooling off period and to allow some to mourn the loss of our pastor before we look at calling a new pastor. We decided to look at forming a call committee so we can begin to lay out our needs and expectations with the goal of probably putting out the call sometime late this fall.

In the mean time, it was brought up that we need an interim pastor in part so he/she can administer Holy Communion. This brought up a question in my mind. Does it require an ordained pastor to do this? When I read Scripture, I don't see where it is instructed that this is necessary. As far as I can tell, Jesus just said that whenever we do it we are to it in memory of Him. One thought we had was that we could call on our deacons fulfill this role in absence of a pastor.

For my part, I don't see any reason why we can't.

Thoughts?
We regular members take turns each week holding the plate and cup (we dip) for one another as they file past in a line. The preacher has nothing to do with it, except that he also gets in line with everyone else..
 
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#13
We regular members take turns each week holding the plate and cup (we dip) for one another as they file past in a line. The preacher has nothing to do with it, except that he also gets in line with everyone else..
That's a good point. Jesus did not serve the disciples bread and wine but they merely passed the bread and cup from one to another. Would seem to me the only requirement is that you be a believer as they were........
 

Willie T

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That's a good point. Jesus did not serve the disciples bread and wine but they merely passed the bread and cup from one to another. Would seem to me the only requirement is that you be a believer as they were........
There is also the point that "any" of the Apostles, when they were out healing the public, or things of that nature, took great pains that no one elevated them to a special position. They were vehement about that at several places in the Bible. They consistently told people "We are men, just like you, do not try to worship or exalt us as someone special."
 

StoveBolts

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#15
WIP
I was thinking. I attend the church of Christ, and we partake each first day of the week.
We like to point to Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Now, we could say a lot about this passage, but we do see the disciples of Jesus, that is, students and followers of Jesus coming together on the first day of the week to break bread. Additionally, we see Paul preaching to them in this instance.

Acts 2:46-47 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

When we go back, we see these new Christians going to the temple, because that's where you talked about God as was the culture, and then going to their houses to break bread, and give praise to God.

In the churches of Christ, we relate both of these passages to the Lord's Supper, which is both a memorial and a celebration in the new covenant we now live in. (Matthew 26:28 - Jeremiah 31:31)

There are a few of verses between Luke and Acts that we can use for a proper textual exegesis to relate "breaking bread" with Communion, Luke 24:30-35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread. The emphasis going back to verse 31, And their eyes were opened, and they knew him

By way of example, we have concluded that it does not need to be administered by an ordained minister etc. If we go back to the first century, it was a meal shared in fellowship with brothers and sisters in Christ in memory and celebration for what Jesus had done, and is doing for he is currently seated at the right hand of God, and He is reining.

I hope this helps in some way.
 

Willie T

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#16
I wish I could go far enough back into the archives to locate a 2013 sermon on Communion. But I can't. This much lighter video our church members made will have to suffice to demonstrate how warped we have gotten in some churches about Communion.
 
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There is also the point that "any" of the Apostles, when they were out healing the public, or things of that nature, took great pains that no one elevated them to a special position. They were vehement about that at several places in the Bible. They consistently told people "We are men, just like you, do not try to worship or exalt us as someone special."
If you could post all the passages where that happens, then we can look at the context and see what they were actually saying.
 

Willie T

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#18
If you could post all the passages where that happens, then we can look at the context and see what they were actually saying.
Well, here are a couple just off the top of my head:
Acts 10:26
Acts 14:15
It's easy to say "But, they were talking about 'worshiping' them." Yet, even if we aren't Catholic or Orthodox, we still tend to do that with our preachers.


Another strong one: Corinthians 15:9
 
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#19
Well, here are a couple just off the top of my head:
Acts 10:26
Acts 14:15
It's easy to say "But, they were talking about 'worshiping' them." Yet, even if we aren't Catholic or Orthodox, we still tend to do that with our preachers.
There are some that idolize their pastors and would follow them from church to church if possible.....or at least leave a church if 'their' pastor leaves.....I have seen that happen several times.
 
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#20
Well, here are a couple just off the top of my head:
Acts 10:26
Acts 14:15
It's easy to say "But, they were talking about 'worshiping' them." Yet, even if we aren't Catholic or Orthodox, we still tend to do that with our preachers.
As long as we understand that there is a hierarchy in the church, that there always has been, and the pastor is the head of the of the church. So they do have a special position because they have a special responsibility, as do all who are elders, and the deacons under them.
 

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