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Question for Preterists

ezrider

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So Jesus has already returned and we are in the 1000 year Millennium right now where the world is perfect?
Where in the Bible does it declare that the world will ever be perfect? As a matter of fact, when I come to the end of the Bible and the last chapter in the book of Revelation I find that wickedness still persists:

Rev 22:14-15 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
 

jasonc

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Where in the Bible does it declare that the world will ever be perfect? As a matter of fact, when I come to the end of the Bible and the last chapter in the book of Revelation I find that wickedness still persists:

Rev 22:14-15 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
context. read that again . its saying without the right to tree of life. the greek word for outside probably isn't to be translated or means without.
 

Kathi

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Where in the Bible does it declare that the world will ever be perfect? As a matter of fact, when I come to the end of the Bible and the last chapter in the book of Revelation I find that wickedness still persists:

Rev 22:14-15 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
That is not what the Bible says about the 1000 year Millennium

At the second coming, these covenants will be fulfilled as Israel is re-gathered from the nations (Matthew 24:31), converted (Zechariah 12:10–14), and restored to the land under the rule of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Bible speaks of the conditions during the millennium as a perfect environment physically and spiritually. It will be a time of peace (Micah 4:2–4;Isaiah 32:17–18), joy (Isaiah 61:7,10), and comfort (Isaiah 40:1–2). The Bible also tells us that only believers will enter the millennial kingdom. Because of this, it will be a time of obedience (Jeremiah 31:33), holiness (Isaiah 35:8), truth (Isaiah 65:16), and the knowledge of God (Isaiah 11:9,Habakkuk 2:14). Christ will rule as king (Isaiah 9:3–7;11:1–10). Nobles and governors will also rule (Isaiah 32:1;Matthew 19:28), and Jerusalem will be the political center of the world (Zechariah

Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/millennium.html#ixzz3OC5tOWhR
 

Deborah13

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Revelation 9:17-19;
"The horses and riders in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur. The heads of the horses resembled the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and sulfur. A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths. The power of the horses was in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails were like snakes, having heads with which they inflict injury".

Now this sounds like science fiction.
Someone with a very good imagination may be able to convince you that they know how to interpret it, but it will always be suspect.

That's why.
And I only picked three verses.
I agree. It does sound like science fiction.
Visions are funny that way. Kind of like dreams.

:thumbsup That is what is interesting about it.Yes,it is sometimes confusing

No one denies that Revelation contains amazing and sometimes confusing visions. No one denies that Revelation describes many things figuratively—that’s the nature of apocalyptic literature. However, to arbitrarily deny the literal nature of select portions of Revelation is to destroy the basis of interpretinganyof the book literally. If the plagues, witnesses, beast, false prophet, millennial kingdom, etc., are all allegorical, then on what basis do we claim that the second coming of Christ and the new earth are literal? That is the failure of preterism—it leaves the interpretation of Revelation to the opinions of the interpreter.

Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/partial-preterism.html#ixzz3OBLbUJR9
Which definition of allegory does Revelation fit, if any?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/allegory

1.
a.
The representation of abstract ideas or principles by characters, figures, or events in narrative, dramatic, or pictorial form.
b. A story, picture, or play employing such representation. John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress and Herman Melville's Moby-Dick are allegories.
2. A symbolic representation: The blindfolded figure with scales is an allegory of justice.
1a - Nope - Definitely not abstract ideas or principles
1b - Nope - Nothing real life about the characters in Paul Bunyan
2 - Nope - I could be wrong on this one but taking the example they gave, that figure is a symbol of justice which is an idea/principle.

So to say Revelation is an allegory is just incorrect. Everything in Revelation represents something or someone that is very real, not imaginary or an idea.
Revelation to me is about literal events, people, and angels, etc.

But then I'm not full preterist so maybe some or all of them see it differently than I do.
 

Malachi

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Where in the Bible does it declare that the world will ever be perfect?
How much digging in the Bible have you done to ask this question?
Please do a thorough search and let us all know that the Bible does indeed teach this truth.
 

ezrider

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That is not what the Bible says about the 1000 year Millennium

At the second coming, these covenants will be fulfilled as Israel is re-gathered from the nations (Matthew 24:31), converted (Zechariah 12:10–14), and restored to the land under the rule of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Bible speaks of the conditions during the millennium as a perfect environment physically and spiritually. It will be a time of peace (Micah 4:2–4;Isaiah 32:17–18), joy (Isaiah 61:7,10), and comfort (Isaiah 40:1–2). The Bible also tells us that only believers will enter the millennial kingdom. Because of this, it will be a time of obedience (Jeremiah 31:33), holiness (Isaiah 35:8), truth (Isaiah 65:16), and the knowledge of God (Isaiah 11:9,Habakkuk 2:14). Christ will rule as king (Isaiah 9:3–7;11:1–10). Nobles and governors will also rule (Isaiah 32:1;Matthew 19:28), and Jerusalem will be the political center of the world (Zechariah

Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/millennium.html#ixzz3OC5tOWhR

Do you believe Jer 31:33 to be in the future?
 

Malachi

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But then I'm not full preterist so maybe some or all of them see it differently than I do.
Indeed they do. That is the whole premise of Preterism -- prophecy must not be taken in its plain literal meaning (which does include symbols and metaphors). "The water of life" (Rev 22:17) is eternal life through the Holy Spirit (Jn 7:38,39). That is not allegorical but metaphorical.
 

Cyberseeker

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Sinthesis said:
... Satan was loosed only amongst those other than the Christians(and perhaps Jews) for a short time in the past. This release does not spiritually affect Christians because for us the current 'millenium' will never end until the great white throne judgement.
Hi Sinthesis. Would you care to elaborate on when you think this "short time in the past" happened?
 

ezrider

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Yes,it is in the future.
If it is in the future, then by which covenant do you live by? Because what I hear you saying is because it is yet it in the future, then Christ has not yet made and established His new Covenant. What then does that make of the shed blood upon the cross if it is not past?
 

Deborah13

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Yes,it is in the future.
Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Is this better covenant the new covenant?
 

Malachi

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Yes,it is in the future.
I think you need to qualify that. For the Church it is a present reality. For "the house of Israel" (Jer 31:33) it will be a future reality.

Israel is in "blindness" while the Gentiles are entering the Church (Rom 11:25), but the New Covenant is presently effective for the Church, because it entails the New Birth.
 

Kathi

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Sometimes it's more edifying for a person to read and think for themselves. Is one going to dig for answers when someone else gives them all the answers?
I do believe that everyone needs to study Scripture individually with a lot of prayer and see what interpretation brings them peace.
 

Deborah13

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I do believe that everyone needs to study Scripture individually with a lot of prayer and see what interpretation brings them peace.
Me too, Kathi. We all need to be good Bereans. :nod
 

Sinthesis

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Hi Sinthesis. Would you care to elaborate on when you think this "short time in the past" happened?
Roughly beginning within 610-622 and ending within 632-750, so 10yrs minimum and 140yrs maximum.
I'm not sure of the exact years, but the effects on the world are obvious.
 

Cyberseeker

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Ah yes. When our good friend (not) Muhammad got let loose. An interesting theory Sinthesis.
 

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