Bible Study Questions...

[Tara]

Do you mind if I ask a few questions about the Bible? I've started reading through the New Testament, and every so often I come across a passage that either doesn't make sense to me, or contradicts what was previously said. I'm sure there are some apologists out there who can straighten me out.

My first question is about the parable of the wedding banquet, where the man who wasn't wearing the right clothes was tied up and thrown into the darkness where there was "weeping and gnashing of teeth." What exactly does this mean? Surely there is more to this than just a crime against fashion.

Second, Jesus said that he came not to bring peace, but a sword. He said he came to turn families against each other. Why? I though he was the Prince of Peace? :-?

Why does Jesus keep warning people not to spread the news about him and his miracles?

Jesus said that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel. What about the rest of us?

Lastly Jesus said that some of his generation wouldn't taste death before they see his kingdom come. Unless I misunderstood the text, this can't be right, can it?

I apologize for not citing the verses, but I'm sure that most of you are familiar enough with the Gospels that it's probably not necessary, anyway. :

 

[greyfeather]

Hi Tara,
Ok Im going to give this a shot, now about the wedding feast. This was a parrable describing.....
The kingdom of heaven. The King in this case would be like God giveing a wedding feast for his son/Jesus. They are invinted to the kingdom of heaven , but they will not come. So others are invited. The wedding clothing I think represent the honor it is to be invited. The man who did not wear his was not honoring the great gift he was offered and so he was thrown out and will not receive the honor of going to heaven. This is what I got out of it and there are others here who are better at explaining , but thats how I look at it.

Ok second one Jesus came with a message a very important one. Some believed in him and some did not , many times families were divided and they turned on each other.Jesus did bring peace he showed how all could live in peace with one another but some would not except him or his message.


Jesus did say he was sent to the lost sheep of Isreal , but after his resurection he inlisted Paul who before Jesus appeared to him persacuted the followers of Jesus. Paul then preached to all gentiles as well as others. Gentiles were us , so there is how Jesus help the rest of us.

Third , I had a problem understanding this one too and I hope I have it by now. I believe he was saying that those who believed on him and the message he brought by God would never taste spiritual death. They would die in the body but would live again in the kingdom of God.

Like I said Im not the greatest at explaning , hope I was of some help.



Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.

 

[cly]

I'll try tackling this one. Everybody, feel free to jump in and correct me, if I'm wrong.

Do you mind if I ask a few questions about the Bible? I've started reading through the New Testament, and every so often I come across a passage that either doesn't make sense to me, or contradicts what was previously said. I'm sure there are some apologists out there who can straighten me out.

My first question is about the parable of the wedding banquet, where the man who wasn't wearing the right clothes was tied up and thrown into the darkness where there was "weeping and gnashing of teeth." What exactly does this mean? Surely there is more to this than just a crime against fashion.

Matthew 22:1-14; First off, you must understand what a parable is. A parable is a symbolic story; none of them actually happened. Jesus used them to illustrate a truth he wanted the people to understand. In this parable, the man dressed incorrectly represents an unsaved person. The wedding is Heaven or Paradise. The unsaved are not allowed into Heaven. The garments that the man in the parable is wearing represents sins. God cannot be in the presence of sin, so that is why the unsaved cannot enter Heaven. Jesus is illustrating here, that even if an unsaved person were to somehow make it to Heaven, then he would be cast out because he is still covered in sin. The "weeping and gnashing of teeth" is a phrase often used to describe Hell. Doesn't sound like too inviting of a place, if you ask me.

Second, Jesus said that he came not to bring peace, but a sword. He said he came to turn families against each other. Why? I though he was the Prince of Peace? :-?

Matthew 10:34-36; The things Jesus says here are not things He prays will happen, but rather, things He knows will happen. Christians have always been persecuted, more in some places and times than in others, but always persecuted. Jesus knew that the Christian church would need defense. He is that defense. This is Jesus warning all Christians that being a Christian does not insure safety or a life of ease. In fact, life will probably become more difficult once a person accepts Jesus as their Savior. However, with Jesus in our lives, we can "do all things" through His strength. He will give us the ability to overcome all odds; He will defend us. (check out Philippians 4:13)

Jesus also speaks of dividing families, and this is no lie. The fact is, that many families have split because one or more of the members become Christians and the others aren't. It's not a pretty thing, but it happens very often. Jesus didn't sugar-coat anything.

Why does Jesus keep warning people not to spread the news about him and his miracles?

Matthew 8:4; I'm not exactly sure on this one, but I think Jesus told this to people because He wanted people to believe Him through faith, not works. He wanted them to believe in what He was saying simply because He was saying it, not because He had performed miracles for them.

Jesus said that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel. What about the rest of us?

I can't find the reference on this one, but I do know what you're talking about. Jesus's death was for the unsaved, or the "lost sheep." Once we are saved, then the Holy Spirit fills us and we are guided by Him (the Holy Spirit). Therefore, in essence, Jesus did only come for the "lost sheep." He was needed for the sacrificial death and the training of the apostles (who later led "lost sheep" to Christ). People who are saved, listen to the Holy Spirit.

Now, you must also understand that there is the Trinity: one whole identity made of three separate identities: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. That, however, can be extremely confusing, so, I'll leave that to someone who can explain it better and do it in another thread.

Lastly Jesus said that some of his generation wouldn't taste death before they see his kingdom come. Unless I misunderstood the text, this can't be right, can it?

Matthew 24:34; The generation that Jesus is talking about here is all the people that will live on the Earth before Jesus's second coming. Personally, I believe in the Rapture and the Seven Years of Tribulation before the 1000-year Reign, which is immediately after Armageddon and Judgement. In that case, this verse is telling me that all people who live before Armageddon is "this generation" or "His generation." Once the years of Tribulation is over, then Judgement will come, which is where everyone will be sent to one of two places: eternal death (Hell) or eternal life (Heaven). That would be seeing His kingdom come or tasting death.

I apologize for not citing the verses, but I'm sure that most of you are familiar enough with the Gospels that it's probably not necessary, anyway. :

I hope it helped.

 

[greyfeather]

Tara,
See I told you others could explain better. I probably had you more confused then you were. :


Cly,

Thanks for helping her there I think I may be going senile , lord knows I'm old enough. :


Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called the children of God.

 

[cly]

Nah, I don't think you're going senile. What you posted was understandable. If you noticed, I had to edit mine twice before I got it to say what I wanted it to say!

 

[Tara]

Thank you both!

The wedding is Heaven or Paradise. The unsaved are not allowed into Heaven. The garments that the man in the parable is wearing represents sins.

That makes sense. I suppose I was projecting my own dislike for outer trappings vs inner truth. Clothes and appearances don't make the man, what's inside does, and I guess that's where I got sidetracked with this particular parable.

I'm not exactly sure on this one, but I think Jesus told this to people because He wanted people to believe Him through faith, not works.

Then why do miracles at all? I just find this very strange.

I can't find the reference on this one, but I do know what you're talking about. Jesus's death was for the unsaved, or the "lost sheep."

I'm sorry about that. I just wrote the questions from memory. It's Matthew 15:21-28, when a Canaanite woman came to Jesus asking for help for her demon possessed daughter. Jesus said he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel, and that it would be like taking the children's bread and tossing it to their dogs. She begged for a few "crumbs" from the master's table and Jesus healed her daughter. I don't really understand the superiority/inferiority dynamics here. I know that the Israelites are the "chosen people" but saying that other people are but dogs at their feet is kind of harsh.

The generation that Jesus is talking about here is all the people that will live on the Earth before Jesus's second coming.

There was another mention of this in Matthew 16:28: "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." So, he wasn't referring to physical death, but eternal death? I've heard that his followers believed that his return would be immanent, and I can understand why.

Another question I have (sorry!) is about the bread and fishes. There were two stories about this in the Bible, but the amount of bread and fish were different. Are these two versions of the same story, or were there two different instances where Jesus performed this miracle?

Thanks guys, this has really helped a lot.

 

[wavy]

There was another mention of this in Matthew 16:28: "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." So, he wasn't referring to physical death, but eternal death? I've heard that his followers believed that his return would be immanent, and I can understand why.

I haven't read anything else, really, but this caught my eye. In Matthew 16:28 he is speaking of the event that took place in Matthew 17:1-9 with the appearing of Moses and Elijah. The "some" were Peter, James, and John, whom he took with them when he was transfigured. This was a type and shadow of the kingdom.

That is why Peter asked to build 3 sukkot (tabernacles) for Yahshua, Elijah, and Moses. Not for them to dwell in, but for Peter, James and John to dwell in for or unto each person shining in glory standing there.

Why did he say this? Random statement? No, he thought Zechariah 14:16-21 had just happened. Check that out. See if you can see Moses and Elijah in this Zechriah passage.

Another question I have (sorry!) is about the bread and fishes. There were two stories about this in the Bible, but the amount of bread and fish were different. Are these two versions of the same story, or were there two different instances where Jesus performed this miracle?

They are two different incidents and they both have meaning (again, not just a random event). The one with the 5 loaves and 2 fishes I understand to mean feeding the multitudes (of Israel) with the 5 books of Torah and the 2-house message of restoration. Judah and the multitudes of Ephraim Israel gathered together (Hosea 1:11; Ezekiel 37:16-28) to make 12 baskets full (for all twelve tribes).

The second one is not something I have figured out yet. The second event talked about 7 loaves and a "few" fishes. That should prove to be a good study if I can ever figure out why the feeding of a multitude happaned twice and why the numbers changed. Trust me, everything in the NT is not just some random event to make a good story. Events and occurances (a lot of the time) typify a spiritual truth or mystery. It's not meant for your entertainment, lol.

Thanks guys, this has really helped a lot.

Well, I don't know how much help you'll take from me. My credit is already in the negative because people think me a legalist because I believe the NT does not preach against true Torah guarding/keeping.

But anyway, I could make some comments on the whole "lost sheep of Israel" thing and the "dogs" but I suppose I have messed with your mind enough. Just PM me or just ask me here again if you'd like to hear something else from me. I think everyone else gave a fair answer although I disagree with a few things that were said.

Peace.

 

[Tara]

Very interesting post, wavy. I was raised in the Christian church, but they always took the Bible literally, rather than symbolically. I haven't read the Old Testament (except for the first few books, over 15 years ago) so some of that symbolism is lost on me. Perhaps if I decide to become a Christian, I can explore this further.

By the way, if you could discuss the "lost sheep" and "dogs" passages, I would be interested to hear it.

 

[wavy]

Well, I believe that when he made the comment in Matthew 15:26, he wasn't ignoring her or considering her a true "dog" (a metaphor for gentile pagans).

It could have been a test for her, which is why he says "O, woman, great is your faith..." after she givers her answer that "even the dogs eat...".

The point may be that if one has faith, that person is not considered a true dog, or gentile, but is physically and spiritually considered Israel.

For more insight, you can read this here.

It's kinda long though. I wrote it.

 

[cj]

Do you mind if I ask a few questions about the Bible? I've started reading through the New Testament, and every so often I come across a passage that either doesn't make sense to me, or contradicts what was previously said. I'm sure there are some apologists out there who can straighten me out.

My first question is about the parable of the wedding banquet, where the man who wasn't wearing the right clothes was tied up and thrown into the darkness where there was "weeping and gnashing of teeth." What exactly does this mean? Surely there is more to this than just a crime against fashion.

First Tara, its important to understand the context of what you're reading;

ABOUT THE PARABLE.... In the foregoing parable the Old Testament was likened to a vineyard, with the focus mainly on the matter of labor under the law; in this parable the New Testament is likened to a wedding feast, with the focus mainly on the matter of enjoyment under grace.

ABOUT THE GARMENT...... This wedding garment is typified by the embroidered garment in Psa. 45:14 and is signified by the fine linen in Rev. 19:8.......

(Revelation  19 : 8 " And it was given to her that she should be clothed in fine linen, right and clean; for the fine linen is the righteousnesses of the saints."
The righteousnesses (plural) here are not the righteousness (i.e., Christ) that we received for our salvation (1 Cor. 1:30). The righteousness we received for our salvation is objective and enables us to meet the requirement of the righteous God, whereas here the righteousnesses of the overcoming saints are subjective (Phil. 3:9) and enable them to meet the requirement of the overcoming Christ. In Psa. 45:13-14 the queen has two garments: one corresponds with the objective righteousness, which is for our salvation, and the other with the subjective righteousnesses, which are for our victory. The second garment is equivalent to the wedding garment in Matt. 22:11-12.)

..... This is the surpassing righteousness of the overcoming believers, mentioned in 5:20....

(Matthew  5 : 20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens."
Righteousness here does not refer only to objective righteousness, which is the Christ whom we receive when we believe in Him and are thus justified before God (1 Cor. 1:30; Rom. 3:26); it refers even more to subjective righteousness, which is the indwelling Christ lived out of us as our righteousness that we may live in the reality of the kingdom today and enter into its manifestation in the future. This subjective righteousness is obtained not by merely the fulfilling of the old law, but by the complementing of the old law through the fulfilling of the new law of the kingdom of the heavens given by the new King here in this section of the Word. This righteousness of the kingdom people, which is according to the new law of the kingdom, surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, which is according to the old law. It is impossible for our natural life to gain this surpassing righteousness; it can be produced only by a higher life, the resurrection life of Christ. This righteousness, which is likened to the wedding garment (22:11-12), qualifies us to participate in the wedding of the Lamb (Rev. 19:7-8) and inherit the kingdom of the heavens in its manifestation, that is, to enter into the kingdom of the heavens in the future.
The righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees is the righteousness of letters, which they practiced by their own life according to the old law of letters; the surpassing righteousness of the kingdom people is the righteousness of life, which they live out by taking Christ as their life according to the new law of life. Both in nature and in standard, the righteousness of life far surpasses the lifeless righteousness practiced by the scribes and Pharisees.)

...... The man not clothed with a wedding garment is saved, because he has come to the wedding feast. He has received Christ as his righteousness that he might be justified before God (1 Cor. 1:30; Rom. 3:26), but he has not lived Christ out as his subjective righteousness (Phil. 3:9) that he might participate in the enjoyment of the kingdom of the heavens. He has been called to salvation, but he has not been chosen for the enjoyment of the kingdom of the heavens, which is for the overcoming believers only.


This parable concerns the reward a believer will receive,... or not receive. Those who were found in the proper garment (their living being in Christ during their lifetime on earth) will receive the reward. Those believers who were found not to have the proper garments on (did not have a living in Christ during their lifetime) will suffer further discipline.



Tara, there is a difference between "becoming" a Christian and "living" the life of a Christian.

A person can be saved yet for many reasons, all of which God is aware of, just not be expressing the reality of their salvation.

On the other hand, a person might have a certain living and being that might not seem to conform to so-called "accepted" standards of Christian living,.... but if you do the best with what you have been given (circumstances and situations) God again knows the truth of the matter.

Whatever the situation, it is not answered by looking back but by looking forward.

The series of parables that you are reading in Matthew are some of the most insightful that a person can read regarding the kingdom of God.

And understand this, God's kingdom is not a place in heaven, God's kingdom is a way of divine living and being.


In love,
cj

 

[cj]

Second, Jesus said that he came not to bring peace, but a sword. He said he came to turn families against each other. Why? I though he was the Prince of Peace?

The whole earth is under Satan's usurpation (1 John 5:19). The heavenly King came to call some out from that usurpation. This certainly aroused Satan's opposition. He instigated the people under his usurpation to fight against the heavenly King's called ones. Thus, His coming did not bring peace but a sword.

The fighting instigated by the usurping Satan against the heavenly King's called ones is waged even in their own household. The heavenly called ones are attacked in their homes by their kindred who remain under the evil one's usurping hand.

Our love for the Lord must be absolute. We should love nothing above Him. He is the One most worthy of our love, and we must be worthy of Him.

Christ took the Father's will and was crucified (26:39, 42). When He was baptized, He was counted as crucified, and from that time He bore His cross to do the will of God. His called ones were identified with Him. He asked them to take their cross and follow after Him, that is, to take the will of God by putting themselves aside. This demanded that at any cost they first give their love to Him that they might be worthy of Him.

To find the soul-life is to allow the soul to have its enjoyment and to escape suffering. To lose the soul-life is to cause the soul to lose its enjoyment and thereby to suffer. If the heavenly King's followers allow their soul to have its enjoyment in this age, they will cause their soul to suffer the loss of its enjoyment in the coming kingdom age. If they allow their soul to suffer the loss of its enjoyment in this age for the King's sake, they will enable their soul to have its enjoyment in the coming kingdom age, that is, to share the King's joy in ruling over the earth (25:21, 23).


In love,
cj

 

[cj]

Jesus said that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel. What about the rest of us?

The Lord was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. However, at this time He came to a Gentile region, thus affording the Gentiles an opportunity to participate in His grace. This bears dispensational significance, showing that Christ came to the Jews first and that because of their unbelief, His salvation turned to the Gentiles (Acts 13:46; Rom. 11:11).



The Canaanite woman, not offended by the Lord's word but admitting that she was a heathen dog, considered that at that time Christ, after being rejected by the children, the Jews, became crumbs under the table as a portion to the Gentiles. The holy land of Israel was the table on which Christ, the heavenly bread, had come as a portion to the children of Israel. But they threw Him off the table to the ground, the Gentile land, so that He became broken crumbs as a portion to the Gentiles. What a realization this Gentile woman had at that time! No wonder the heavenly King admired her faith (v. 28).



The entire plan of salavation for men started back in the OT (which is why its good to read it, though hard).

The Jews were a called out people who were, in a sense, set-up by God.

See His plan was to have all men be saved but first He needed to establish a way, and He did this by introducing a system that would prove that men were not able. That is, everyone except Jesus.

The system by which men could obtain a righteous standing before God was a system that only God Himself could keep, and He knew this all along. But in His wisdom and foreknowledge He knew this was the way to go about saving men.

Jesus knew that He would be rejected by the Jews, He predicted it, and it was prophesied in the OT. But as a result of this rejection Jesus could then turn to everyone else with the offer of eternal life. Which was always His plan.



Abraham's decendants are all men who will believe, and God's promise to Abraham is that He would save all men who believed, and more, fill them with Himself.

Whereas, the Jews will be saved in there keeping of the law and ordinances.

They rejected Jesus in favor of their laws and ordinances, therefore how well they did in keeping the law and ordinances will be the yardstick by which they will be saved.


In love,
cj

 

[Geo]

...... The man not clothed with a wedding garment is saved, because he has come to the wedding feast. He has received Christ as his righteousness that he might be justified before God (1 Cor. 1:30; Rom. 3:26), but he has not lived Christ out as his subjective righteousness (Phil. 3:9) that he might participate in the enjoyment of the kingdom of the heavens. He has been called to salvation, but he has not been chosen for the enjoyment of the kingdom of the heavens, which is for the overcoming believers only.

This parable concerns the reward a believer will receive,... or not receive. Those who were found in the proper garment (their living being in Christ during their lifetime on earth) will receive the reward. Those believers who were found not to have the proper garments on (did not have a living in Christ during their lifetime) will suffer further discipline.

Very good. That's the truth. It's "phase 2" in the Christian walk.
After we become booksmarts we have to become streetsmarts
(allow Him to transform us, and let us apply truth to make
it our reality) otherwise he cannot but notice 'ahh I see you are
dressed insufficiently for this wedding'.

This may also apply for the rapture.

 

[wavy]

Whereas, the Jews will be saved in there keeping of the law and ordinances.

They rejected Jesus in favor of their laws and ordinances, therefore how well they did in keeping the law and ordinances will be the yardstick by which they will be saved.

This, without mincing words, is the most abominable lie I have ever heard.

 

[Solo]

Whereas, the Jews will be saved in there keeping of the law and ordinances.

They rejected Jesus in favor of their laws and ordinances, therefore how well they did in keeping the law and ordinances will be the yardstick by which they will be saved.

This, without mincing words, is the most abominable lie I have ever heard.

Will Israelites be saved apart from believing in Jesus Christ?

 

[wavy]

Will Israelites be saved apart from believing in Jesus Christ?

Apart from believing in Yahweh through Yahshua, no.

 

[Solo]

Will Israelites be saved apart from believing in Jesus Christ?

Apart from believing in Yahweh through Yahshua, no.

Then cj was correct in his statement that you called an abominable lie. The Jews will be saved by how well they kept the Law and ordinances (which they didn't keep, therefore they will not be saved), or by their belief in God as redeemer through the Messiah. The Israelites are not saved then by the Law, but by understanding the impossible task of being righteous as God's Law revealed, therefore, requiring God as their saviour, which Jesus is God their Savior.

 

[wavy]

Then cj was correct in his statement that you called an abominable lie.

Please pay attention and read your question and my answer again:

Will Israelites be saved apart from believing in Jesus Christ?

In essence, you are asking will Israelites be saved other than by Messiah. My answer:

Apart from believing in Yahweh through Yahshua, no.

Meaning they will not be saved apart from belief in Yahweh through Yahshua. There is nothing else.

You would rather try to make me contradict myself, when I so clearly did not, than deal with the statements cj made.

We both agree that he is wrong. But no, pick on wavy...

Anyway...moving on...

 

[Solo]

Then cj was correct in his statement that you called an abominable lie.

Please pay attention and read your question and my answer again:

Will Israelites be saved apart from believing in Jesus Christ?

In essence, you are asking will Israelites be saved other than by Messiah. My answer:

Apart from believing in Yahweh through Yahshua, no.

Meaning they will not be saved apart from belief in Yahweh through Yahshua. There is nothing else.

You would rather try to make me contradict myself, when I so clearly did not, than deal with the statements cj made.

We both agree that he is wrong. But no, pick on wavy...

Anyway...moving on...

I am not picking on wavy. I am pointing out that as I read cj's post I saw that he was saying that unless the Israelites kept the entire law they would not be saved by any other means other than a belief in Jesus Christ.

If there is a misunderstanding of cj's post, then I understand how you or I could be in error. I was clearing up cj's and wavy's intent as I did not see cj's post as an abominable lie. That is all there is to it.

Cowboy up, pardner.

 

[wavy]

Whereas, the Jews will be saved in there keeping of the law and ordinances.

They rejected Jesus in favor of their laws and ordinances, therefore how well they did in keeping the law and ordinances will be the yardstick by which they will be saved.

Well, this a pretty strong statement, but I see what you are saying. Even still, this is not true for any Jew. This is true for all human beings who are unbelievers. not just "Jews" because Torah is not a "Jewish" Torah.

Leviticus 24:22 Ye shall have one manner of Torah, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am YHWH your God.