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Refuting Preterism

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Well, one thing that has always puzzled me is all the warnings and laments about the particular day, the season, being pregnant or nursing, not wasting even the few minutes it would take to slip back into the house or to grab a coat........ IF one of today's missiles (or a lighting bolt or something) was going to level half the city.

And what good is it going to do anyone to run, on foot, to the mountains to hide in a city there?

The coming of the Lord is clear language for the return ofJesus Christ with His saints from heaven at the end of the age.

14 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.

Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:1-6

JLB
 
Jesus' feet were standing on the Mount of Olives when He gave the Olivet Discourse.

Exactly. There were no armies surrounding Jerusalem when He gave His discourse to His disciples.

For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; Zechariah 14:2

“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
“Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.
Luke 21:20-21


It's interesting that the mount of Olives is the first mountain you come to when you leave the Temple and it's from here that Jesus gave His teaching to His disciples privately about His return, and return to that very mount when He comes.

The only difference will be the mount of Olives will be two mountains as they will be split in two when His feet stand there.

That's why he says in Luke 21...
Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains (plural)...

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.

4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,

From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, Zechariah 14:3-5


JLB
 
Luk 12:51 - Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52 - For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

Jhn 10:18 - No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Jhn 10:19 - There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.​

The division is not about a physical piece of ground, but the separation of Christianity out of Judaism that began with Christ's incarnation on the earth.
 
Luk 12:51 - Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52 - For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

Jhn 10:18 - No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Jhn 10:19 - There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.​

The division is not about a physical piece of ground, but the separation of Christianity out of Judaism that began with Christ's incarnation on the earth.

How does this address my post?

The Olivet Discourse is teaching from Zechariah's Prophecy.

The same Lord that comes with His saints in Zechariah 14, is the same Lord who comes with His saints in Mark 13.


JLB
 
Well, one thing that has always puzzled me is all the warnings and laments about the particular day, the season, being pregnant or nursing, not wasting even the few minutes it would take to slip back into the house or to grab a coat........ IF one of today's missiles (or a lighting bolt or something) was going to level half the city.

And what good is it going to do anyone to run, on foot, to the mountains to hide in a city there?
I would state Rev 11 is a sign that can't be mistaken.
Randy
 
Well, refuting preterism is easy, just let one talk for a few moments and they trip themselves, and look silly. Because they are so far out there, and I never even heard of one until I came on this forum, they are easy to refute.

Post and Pre trib doctrines on the other hand are both steeped in future events we are promised, they will happen. Both sides have seen truths by the same Holy Spirit, but both sides do not agree on timing events.

We can fix timing events, we can't fix someone who thinks there is nothing to fix as it's all come to pass already.

Mike.
 
Not that simple really, one doctrine puts Antichrist in the past the other puts him in the future the bible puts him in the present..

tob
 
How does this address my post?

The Olivet Discourse is teaching from Zechariah's Prophecy.

The same Lord that comes with His saints in Zechariah 14, is the same Lord who comes with His saints in Mark 13.


JLB

If a thousand years are as a day, then we can see the prophecy fulfilled over a period of time longer than 24hrs.
 
Well, refuting preterism is easy, just let one talk for a few moments and they trip themselves, and look silly. Because they are so far out there, and I never even heard of one until I came on this forum, they are easy to refute.

Post and Pre trib doctrines on the other hand are both steeped in future events we are promised, they will happen. Both sides have seen truths by the same Holy Spirit, but both sides do not agree on timing events.

We can fix timing events, we can't fix someone who thinks there is nothing to fix as it's all come to pass already.

Mike.

You've had 2000yrs to fix the timing events. Any progress?
 
Antichrist is past, present, and future. It's just not the Pope.

But the pope claims sole ownership to the keys of the kingdom..

200px-Coat_of_arms_Holy_See.svg.png


tob
 
If a thousand years are as a day, then we can see the prophecy fulfilled over a period of time longer than 24hrs.

Makes zero sense.

The Olivet Discourse is teaching from Zechariah's Prophecy.

The same Lord that comes with His saints in Zechariah 14, is the same Lord who comes with His saints in Mark 13.

Which means for your Preterism that both the Olivet Discourse and Zechariah 14 have absolutely nothing to do with 70 AD!



JLB
 
i have some good information concerning this.. when these kind of events were taking place they had to do something to stop the bleeding.. the proverbial cat was out of the bag..

William Tyndale was put to death – strangled with an iron collar (garrotted) and burnt at the stake – for translating the Bible into English, and this was not just any translation. It was the basis of the King James version and every other English version, so I understand. In reviewing some biographical information on Tyndale I also learned how incensed he was at the practice of scholastic disputation because even scholars were prevented from reading and studying the Bible until they had done years of study:

http://www.theredmountainpost.com/burned-at-the-stake-for-translating-the-bible-into-english-7420/

tob
 
Not that simple really, one doctrine puts Antichrist in the past the other puts him in the future the bible puts him in the present..

tob
This statement is not correct.. The scripture to this orthodox preterist puts antichrists past present future..
 
i know reba it was at work in Paul's time.. and its at work now

II Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

tob
 
You've had 2000yrs to fix the timing events. Any progress?

I am sorry to report, that despite my efforts, there are still post tribbers in the world. I don't seem to be that effective yet.

Mike.
 
I am sorry to report, that despite my efforts, there are still post tribbers in the world. I don't seem to be that effective yet.

Mike.

Here is a look at what is described by Zechariah, as the Lord Coming with His saints, which Paul describes in 1 Thessalonians.

1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east. And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two, From east to west, Making a very large valley; Half of the mountain shall move toward the north And half of it toward the south.
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley, For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal. Yes, you shall flee As you fled from the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Thus the Lord my God will come, And all the saints with You.
6 It shall come to pass in that day That there will be no light; The lights will diminish.
7 It shall be one day Which is known to the Lord-- Neither day nor night. But at evening time it shall happen That it will be light.
Zechariah 14:1-7

Zechariah - Day of the Lord, saints coming with Him.


14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!" then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.1 Thessalonians 4:14-5:4


1 Thessalonians - Day of the Lord, saints coming with Him.

Same Event.


I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
Zechariah 14:1-4


...Then the Lord will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle.



JLB
 
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