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Rich Man and Lazarus

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guibox

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Folks,

I found this site on the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus. It is probably one of the most thorough exegetical studies on it that I have seen (and from a non-Adventist too for all you SDA bashers!).

It is very good.

I know how we feel about it all and we all have our own opinions and this has been hashed out many times so...

PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS AND COMMENT ON IT SPECIFICALLY

http://bible-truths.com/lazarus.html
 
I haven't read the whole thing yet (really, only the first part) and I don't doubt this man is intelligent.

However, what stopped me from continuing is remembering that Jewish Rabbi's (which the Messiah was), do not use names in parables. This is therefore, not a parable. And he did speak in parables to the multitudes.

However, he was not speaking to the multitudes here. Not at first glance at it.

I'm being lazy. But I'll probably take a look later.
 
Just thought that I'd 'bump up' this topic. I've so far read about half of the text - it's very lengthy but interesting. While I still have the other half to complete I think I can safely say at this point that only those who are blind to the truth will reject the conclusion.

I personally didn't require this additional literary source to convince me that the Rich Man & Lazarus is a parable and that it doesn't support eternal suffering in hell. The reading does, however, offer thorough insight into this scripture that I hadn't previously considered. I would suggest this reading to everyone ...but one may first have to clear their minds of preconceived beliefs that are based on pure misinterpretaion.
 
One has only to see what the Bible says about death to realize it is ABSOLUTEY a parable.
Because of Adam's rebellion, he was not sentenced to the churches 'Hellfire'.
 
This is one of the LEAST exegetical articles I have ever started to read.
In the first few lines the writer calls other views heresy.
The bias is evident in every paragraph and just screams eisegesis.

The author does not engage with the text until after you are force fed an entire theology.
The author does not allow for both sides to be possible and then look at the text to see where it points.
The author tells you what to believe and then provides out of context verses to back up his statements.

Sloppy work of the highest order.
 
Where was Samuel before he appeared to Saul ? Answer = Abraham's bosom Luke 16:22-23

The text can not be any more clear, Samuel appeared to Saul, gave him a prophecy that he would die and be with him the next day, and what happened, Saul died the next day.

1 Samuel 28

11​

Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.

12​

And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

13​

And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

14​

And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

15​

And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

16​

Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

17​

And the LORD hath done to him, as he spake by me: for the LORD hath rent the kingdom out of thine hand, and given it to thy neighbor, even to David:

2 Corinthians 5:6
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2 Corinthians 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Where did YESHUA go during the three days and nights that His body lay dead?

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
__
There's someone new here that is full of watchtower theology, without the Spirit of God, denying both the Father and the Son, discernment says that seven worse than the first found an empty place to to occupy.
 
theSeriousOne said:
I don't know,
Please answer my question.
Click to expand...

This is the the one to whom I refer, but that's something that he already knew.

The Life of the Flesh is in the Blood. YESHUA's Blood made the atonement. Leviticus 17:11, Acts 20:28 .... The Ekklesia of God which He purchased with His Own Blood = Literal Greek (the word son does not occur in the Greek)

He died for our sins (shed His Blood}, was buried and the body that was buried rose again on the third day.

His Spirit went and preached to the spirits in prison during the three days and nights that His body lay dead. 1 Peter 3:18-19

The second death is when the soul is destroyed, annihilated, no life in it, compared to the body when it dies Matthew 10:28 in gehenna = lake of fire

John 20:28 O Kurios mu kai O Theos mu = The LORD of me and The GOD of me

And how does YESHUA respond to Thomas calling Him, THE definite article LORD THE definite article GOD

Because you have seen Me you believe, blessed are those that have not seen and believe.

Being that you are a natural man, meaning the Spirit of God does not dwell in you, the Word says that you can not understand the things of the Spirit of God.
 
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232 Ben Yissachar said:
This is the the one to whom I refer, but that's something that he already knew.

The Life of the Flesh is in the Blood. YESHUA's Blood made the atonement. Leviticus 17:11, Acts 20:28 .... The Ekklesia of God which He purchased with His Own Blood = Literal Greek (the word son does not occur in the Greek)

He died for our sins (shed His Blood}, was buried and the body that was buried rose again on the third day.

His Spirit went and preached to the spirits in prison during the three days and nights that His body lay dead. 1 Peter 3:18-19

The second death is when the soul is destroyed, annihilated, no life in it, compared to the body when it dies Matthew 10:28 in gehenna = lake of fire

John 20:28 O Kurios mu kai O Theos mu = The LORD of me and The GOD of me

And how does YESHUA respond to Thomas calling Him, THE definite article LORD THE definite article GOD

Because you have seen Me you believe, blessed are those that have not seen and believe.

Being that you are a natural man, meaning the Spirit of God does not dwell in you, the Word says that you can not understand the things of the Spirit of God.
Click to expand...
"He died for our sins (shed His Blood}, was buried and the body that was buried rose again on the third day.
His Spirit went and preached to the spirits in prison during the three days and nights that His body lay dead."

That's the church con.
And He/They resurrected Himself/Themselves even though LIVING!
 
theSeriousOne said:
"He died for our sins (shed His Blood}, was buried and the body that was buried rose again on the third day.
His Spirit went and preached to the spirits in prison during the three days and nights that His body lay dead."

That's the church con.
And He/They resurrected Himself/Themselves even though LIVING!
Click to expand...

The Body was Resurrected, that is what died and was buried. His Spirit did not die... Repeat, it was His Blood that made the Atonement , and Yes Father Son and Spirit raised YESHUA from the dead.

Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Theotes bodily.

Theotes = Deity, The State of Being God

John

19​

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20​

Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21​

But He spake of the temple of His body.

22​

When therefore He was risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

They Believed the Word that YESHUA had said, That After three days He would raise His own Body.


Acts 13:33
God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that He hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art My Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.

If the Spirit of God dwells within someone, their Mortal body will be raised just like His was raised

Luke 24:39
Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself: handle Me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me have.

As stated theSeriousOne is a watchtower wolf-slave presently or has been in the past, 100% incapable of understanding the scriptures, he made another post below this one, but now that he has been exposed and refuted. I have other matters to attend to with my time.
 
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" His Spirit did not die".
So, Jesus, who told his followers he would be laying down his very LIFE- was LYING?

The churches teach he NEVER died!
 
guibox said:
Folks,

I found this site on the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus. It is probably one of the most thorough exegetical studies on it that I have seen (and from a non-Adventist too for all you SDA bashers!).

It is very good.

I know how we feel about it all and we all have our own opinions and this has been hashed out many times so...

PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS AND COMMENT ON IT SPECIFICALLY

http://bible-truths.com/lazarus.html
Click to expand...
This summary was exceptionally too lengthy; however, what I read I basically agree with. The following summary may have added a few points:

Jesus Christ was speaking to his disciples in the present of the Pharisees and scribes prior to the account at Luke 16:19-31.

In this illustration, the rich man depicts the Jewish clergy who were well provided for with spiritual provisions; who considered themselves children of the kingdom, clothed in purple; who were very self-righteous, wearing fine linen; and who were proud of being Abraham’s offspring. (Matthew 23:27, 28; Romans 3:1, 2; Revelation 19:8) The beggar Lazarus depicts the Jewish common people, who were despised by the clergy, who because of neglect were spiritually sick and were hungering and thirsting for righteousness, and who appreciated their need of Christ Jesus.-John 7:49; Matthew 5:6; Mark 2:17.

The death of the rich man and of Lazarus pictured a change taking place in the relative positions of these two classes. This should be no surprise to us because the Bible shows that death can be used symbolically, representing people as dying or having died though still alive, meaning thereby that a great change in one’s life or course of action. Compare Romans 6:2, 11-13; 7:4-6; Colossians 3:3; 1 Timothy 5:6. A death, or change from former conditions, happened when Jesus fed the Lazarus class spiritually; and, they thus came into the favor of the greater Abraham: God. At the same time, the false religious leaders “died” with respect to having God’s favor. Being cast off, they suffered torments when Christ’s followers after Pentecost forcefully exposed their evil works. (Acts 7:51-57) So this illustration is not literal and does not teach that some dead persons are tormented in a literal fiery hell.

Furthermore, it is not reasonable or Scriptural to believe that a man suffers torment simply because he is rich, wears good clothing and has plenty to eat. It is not Scriptural to believe that one is blessed with heavenly life just because he is a beggar. Jesus said nothing about the rich man’s living a degraded life worthy of “fiery” punishment; the man’s failing was that he did not feed (spiritually) the poor. Further, Jesus said nothing about Lazarus’ doing good things, things that clearly would merit his going to heaven.

Furthermore, “No man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.” (John 3:13) The resurrection of the dead did not start at that time.
 
Mark51 said:
This summary was exceptionally too lengthy; however, what I read I basically agree with. The following summary may have added a few points:

Jesus Christ was speaking to his disciples in the present of the Pharisees and scribes prior to the account at Luke 16:19-31.

In this illustration, the rich man depicts the Jewish clergy who were well provided for with spiritual provisions; who considered themselves children of the kingdom, clothed in purple; who were very self-righteous, wearing fine linen; and who were proud of being Abraham’s offspring. (Matthew 23:27, 28; Romans 3:1, 2; Revelation 19:8) The beggar Lazarus depicts the Jewish common people, who were despised by the clergy, who because of neglect were spiritually sick and were hungering and thirsting for righteousness, and who appreciated their need of Christ Jesus.-John 7:49; Matthew 5:6; Mark 2:17.

The death of the rich man and of Lazarus pictured a change taking place in the relative positions of these two classes. This should be no surprise to us because the Bible shows that death can be used symbolically, representing people as dying or having died though still alive, meaning thereby that a great change in one’s life or course of action. Compare Romans 6:2, 11-13; 7:4-6; Colossians 3:3; 1 Timothy 5:6. A death, or change from former conditions, happened when Jesus fed the Lazarus class spiritually; and, they thus came into the favor of the greater Abraham: God. At the same time, the false religious leaders “died” with respect to having God’s favor. Being cast off, they suffered torments when Christ’s followers after Pentecost forcefully exposed their evil works. (Acts 7:51-57) So this illustration is not literal and does not teach that some dead persons are tormented in a literal fiery hell.

Furthermore, it is not reasonable or Scriptural to believe that a man suffers torment simply because he is rich, wears good clothing and has plenty to eat. It is not Scriptural to believe that one is blessed with heavenly life just because he is a beggar. Jesus said nothing about the rich man’s living a degraded life worthy of “fiery” punishment; the man’s failing was that he did not feed (spiritually) the poor. Further, Jesus said nothing about Lazarus’ doing good things, things that clearly would merit his going to heaven.

Furthermore, “No man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.” (John 3:13) The resurrection of the dead did not start at that time.
Click to expand...

The rich man, a literal man was in hell, burning in torment in the fire.

Lazarus a literal man was safely in paradise, Abraham's Bosom, and was with Abraham and comforted though he seemed to be poor and cursed on earth.

This was the mindset of the Jews in that culture.

If a person was poor they were not blessed.



JLB
 
JLB said:
The rich man, a literal man was in hell, burning in torment in the fire.

Lazarus a literal man was safely in paradise, Abraham's Bosom, and was with Abraham and comforted though he seemed to be poor and cursed on earth.

This was the mindset of the Jews in that culture.

If a person was poor they were not blessed.



JLB
Click to expand...
Acts 26:23 and Colossians 1:18 contradicts what you posted. I am confused with your last statement: "If a person was poor they were not blessed." The poor certain may be blessed. A persons financial status are not a qualifier.
 
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