What's new
Christian Forums

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Do not use Chrome Incognito when registering as it freezes the registration page.
  • Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
  • No longer will OSAS vx OSNAS be allowed to be debated, argued, or discussed in theology forum. Too much time is required to monitor and rescources used to debate this subject which hasn't been definitively decided in 3,000 years.

Bible Study Sabbath Obligation?

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
14,917
Gender
Female
so is the idea of the levites.
shabat is on the time I said it and define work?
enter all the problems with legalism on that.
Gosh Jason,,,,
I don't understand what you mean.
The Levites in relation to the Sabbath?
Shabat -- not sure what that is. Friday evening liturgy?
Legalism.....how does that go with the Sabbath?
 

jasonc

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
39,285
Christian
Yes
Gosh Jason,,,,
I don't understand what you mean.
The Levites in relation to the Sabbath?
Shabat -- not sure what that is. Friday evening liturgy?
Legalism.....how does that go with the Sabbath?
Because its a day of rest,resting from Work from the provision God gave ,based on the creation week,and on the seventh day God rested from,all,that he made .

Its not lets go to church ,listen to the bible being preached,sing a few,then go eat at some restaurant .

It was save food for an offering ,and also to eat on the days before ,do no work ,not even collecting sticks .

Defing work would vary from rabbi or priest in,the area.its not a sin to do Shabbat ,but its from Friday at sunset to sunset on,Saturday.
 

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
14,917
Gender
Female
Because its a day of rest,resting from Work from the provision God gave ,based on the creation week,and on the seventh day God rested from,all,that he made .

Its not lets go to church ,listen to the bible being preached,sing a few,then go eat at some restaurant .

It was save food for an offering ,and also to eat on the days before ,do no work ,not even collecting sticks .

Defing work would vary from rabbi or priest in,the area.its not a sin to do Shabbat ,but its from Friday at sunset to sunset on,Saturday.
OK I know what you mean.
Of course Christians that love God understand that the Sabbath (whatever day it is) is meant to honor God and this does not mean just going to church.

Although this is what it has become to many.
Too little teaching in our churches nowadays.

As t o collecting sticks....is that a work?
I don't think so.

God made it a day of rest....
And man made it a day or work...
As Jesus stated....it is a day for MAN, not the other way around.
 

jasonc

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
39,285
Christian
Yes
OK I know what you mean.
Of course Christians that love God understand that the Sabbath (whatever day it is) is meant to honor God and this does not mean just going to church.

Although this is what it has become to many.
Too little teaching in our churches nowadays.

As t o collecting sticks....is that a work?
I don't think so.

God made it a day of rest....
And man made it a day or work...
As Jesus stated....it is a day for MAN, not the other way around.
Yes,it was .

In,the Torah ,

We say an egyptish woman picking up,sticks,is this work,yes,says the Lord,she was stoned .

That's Sabbath law. Once we remove the death requirement and such its an option
 

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
14,917
Gender
Female
Yes,it was .

In,the Torah ,

We say an egyptish woman picking up,sticks,is this work,yes,says the Lord,she was stoned .

That's Sabbath law. Once we remove the death requirement and such its an option
VERY INTERESTING!!!!
I think I see some light at the end of the proverbial tunnel !!
THANKS!

Also, worshiping of the Sabbath is a ceremonial law and the
ceremonial laws have been abolished.

What do you think about this?
 

jasonc

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
39,285
Christian
Yes
VERY INTERESTING!!!!
I think I see some light at the end of the proverbial tunnel !!
THANKS!

Also, worshiping of the Sabbath is a ceremonial law and the
ceremonial laws have been abolished.

What do you think about this?
Fulfilled in Christ,Jesus is our rest .

For if Joshua had given them rest ...same word Sabbath. Hmm might ask pastor to a discussion on,the Torah
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Staff member
Topical Studies Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
24,036
Gender
Male
It could be that Paul didn't mention the Sabbath observance because it was taken for granted that is should be ovserved.
The weekly Sabbath points to the rest to come.

For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:8-9




having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
Colossians 2:14-17



The seventh prophetic day is fast approaching when Jesus will return and destroy our enemies, and we will reign with Him for one thousand years.




JLB
 

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
14,917
Gender
Female
The weekly Sabbath points to the rest to come.

For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:8-9




having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
Colossians 2:14-17



The seventh prophetic day is fast approaching when Jesus will return and destroy our enemies, and we will reign with Him for one thousand years.




JLB
Thanks JLB.
Yes, I know Colossians 2 also.

Since I tend to trust the ECFs on questionable doctrine....
and they taught worship on the First Day of the week,,, Sunday....
I guess I should just stop wondering and accept it.

It was not changed, however, by the CC as many believe....
it was actually practiced by the Early Fathers. Just a short time after Jesus...actually earlier even than the gospels.

It just bothers me that it's one of the commandments.
But it DOES happen to be a ceremonial commandment,,,which was part of the ceremonial law which actually was abolished.
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Staff member
Topical Studies Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
24,036
Gender
Male
Thanks JLB.
Yes, I know Colossians 2 also.

Since I tend to trust the ECFs on questionable doctrine....
and they taught worship on the First Day of the week,,, Sunday....
I guess I should just stop wondering and accept it.

It was not changed, however, by the CC as many believe....
it was actually practiced by the Early Fathers. Just a short time after Jesus...actually earlier even than the gospels.

It just bothers me that it's one of the commandments.
But it DOES happen to be a ceremonial commandment,,,which was part of the ceremonial law which actually was abolished.
The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

The weekly Sabbath points to the rest to come.


JLB
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Staff member
Topical Studies Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
24,036
Gender
Male
Since I tend to trust the ECFs on questionable doctrine....
Post a few quotes about the Sabbath from the Early Church Fathers that you feel are the most notable.

Maybe Polycarp?



JLB
 

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
14,917
Gender
Female
Post a few quotes about the Sabbath from the Early Church Fathers that you feel are the most notable.

Maybe Polycarp?



JLB
Yes!
Polycarp would be one of them.
He was taught by John.

Clement of Rome would be another one...
He was taught by Paul and also knew Peter.

Also Ignatius of Antioch who was taught by Peter and also knew John.

They worshipped on Sunday.

I'll see if I could find some quotes on the net.
There's a great set of books with all the ECFs.
It's about a 10 volume set and has a high price.
You'd like it I'm sure.
I can't get it over here, but I do find a lot on the internet.
(the set would be better---I like books)
 
  • Like
Reactions: JLB

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Staff member
Topical Studies Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
24,036
Gender
Male
Yes!
Polycarp would be one of them.
He was taught by John.

Clement of Rome would be another one...
He was taught by Paul and also knew Peter.

Also Ignatius of Antioch who was taught by Peter and also knew John.

They worshipped on Sunday.

I'll see if I could find some quotes on the net.
There's a great set of books with all the ECFs.
It's about a 10 volume set and has a high price.
You'd like it I'm sure.
I can't get it over here, but I do find a lot on the internet.
(the set would be better---I like books)
Awesome.

Direct disciples of John and Paul would be great.


Also, is their anything in the Didache about the Sabbath.


Many people call the Sabbath the “Lords Day”.

The Lord’s Day is His Day of Resurrection.

The first day of the week.


One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
Romans 14:5



JLB
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Staff member
Topical Studies Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
24,036
Gender
Male
Yes!
Polycarp would be one of them.
He was taught by John.

Clement of Rome would be another one...
He was taught by Paul and also knew Peter.

Also Ignatius of Antioch who was taught by Peter and also knew John.

They worshipped on Sunday.

I'll see if I could find some quotes on the net.
There's a great set of books with all the ECFs.
It's about a 10 volume set and has a high price.
You'd like it I'm sure.
I can't get it over here, but I do find a lot on the internet.
(the set would be better---I like books)
Awesome.

Direct disciples of John and Paul would be great.


Also, is their anything in the Didache about the Sabbath.


Many people call the Sabbath the “Lords Day”.

The Lord’s Day is His Day of Resurrection.

The first day of the week.


There's a great set of books with all the ECFs.
It's about a 10 volume set and has a high price.
You'd like it I'm sure.
I can't get it over here, but I do find a lot on the internet.
(the set would be better---I like books)
Im not really motivated towards those things, but like to hear what the Apostles taught directly to the more prominent of their disciples.


I like the Didache.

The Didache: The Lord's Teaching Through the Twelve Apostles to the Nations.

Chapter 1. The Two Ways and the First Commandment. There are two ways, one of life and one of death, but a great difference between the two ways. The way of life, then, is this: First, you shall love God who made you; second, love your neighbor as yourself, and do not do to another what you would not want done to you. And of these sayings the teaching is this: Bless those who curse you, and pray for your enemies, and fast for those who persecute you. For what reward is there for loving those who love you? Do not the Gentiles do the same? But love those who hate you, and you shall not have an enemy. Abstain from fleshly and worldly lusts. If someone strikes your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and you shall be perfect. If someone impresses you for one mile, go with him two. If someone takes your cloak, give him also your coat. If someone takes from you what is yours, ask it not back, for indeed you are not able. Give to every one who asks you, and ask it not back; for the Father wills that to all should be given of our own blessings (free gifts). Happy is he who gives according to the commandment, for he is guiltless. Woe to him who receives; for if one receives who has need, he is guiltless; but he who receives not having need shall pay the penalty, why he received and for what. And coming into confinement, he shall be examined concerning the things which he has done, and he shall not escape from there until he pays back the last penny. And also concerning this, it has been said, Let your alms sweat in your hands, until you know to whom you should give.



This part to me is huge!



  • Woe to him who receives; for if one receives who has need, he is guiltless; but he who receives not having need shall pay the penalty, why he received and for what. And coming into confinement, he shall be examined concerning the things which he has done, and he shall not escape from there until he pays back the last penny. And also concerning this, it has been said, Let your alms sweat in your hands, until you know to whom you should give.



JLB
 

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
14,917
Gender
Female
Awesome.

Direct disciples of John and Paul would be great.


Also, is their anything in the Didache about the Sabbath.


Many people call the Sabbath the “Lords Day”.

The Lord’s Day is His Day of Resurrection.

The first day of the week.


One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
Romans 14:5



JLB
Yes. The Didache does mention something, but I can't remember it being very clear.
I'll link to it......
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Staff member
Topical Studies Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
24,036
Gender
Male
Chapter 2. The Second Commandment: Grave Sin Forbidden. And the second commandment of the Teaching; You shall not commit murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit pederasty, you shall not commit fornication, you shall not steal, you shall not practice magic, you shall not practice witchcraft, you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born. You shall not covet the things of your neighbor, you shall not swear, you shall not bear false witness, you shall not speak evil, you shall bear no grudge. You shall not be double-minded nor double-tongued, for to be double-tongued is a snare of death. Your speech shall not be false, nor empty, but fulfilled by deed. You shall not be covetous, nor rapacious, nor a hypocrite, nor evil disposed, nor haughty. You shall not take evil counsel against your neighbor. You shall not hate any man; but some you shall reprove, and concerning some you shall pray, and some you shall love more than your own life.



Chapter 3. Other Sins Forbidden. My child, flee from every evil thing, and from every likeness of it. Be not prone to anger, for anger leads to murder. Be neither jealous, nor quarrelsome, nor of hot temper, for out of all these murders are engendered. My child, be not a lustful one. for lust leads to fornication. Be neither a filthy talker, nor of lofty eye, for out of all these adulteries are engendered. My child, be not an observer of omens, since it leads to idolatry. Be neither an enchanter, nor an astrologer, nor a purifier, nor be willing to took at these things, for out of all these idolatry is engendered. My child, be not a liar, since a lie leads to theft. Be neither money-loving, nor vainglorious, for out of all these thefts are engendered. My child, be not a murmurer, since it leads the way to blasphemy. Be neither self-willed nor evil-minded, for out of all these blasphemies are engendered.
Rather, be meek, since the meek shall inherit the earth. Be long-suffering and pitiful and guileless and gentle and good and always trembling at the words which you have heard. You shall not exalt yourself, nor give over-confidence to your soul. Your soul shall not be joined with lofty ones, but with just and lowly ones shall it have its intercourse. Accept whatever happens to you as good, knowing that apart from God nothing comes to pass.
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Staff member
Topical Studies Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
24,036
Gender
Male
Chapter 4. Various Precepts. My child, remember night and day him who speaks the word of God to you, and honor him as you do the Lord. For wherever the lordly rule is uttered, there is the Lord. And seek out day by day the faces of the saints, in order that you may rest upon their words. Do not long for division, but rather bring those who contend to peace. Judge righteously, and do not respect persons in reproving for transgressions. You shall not be undecided whether or not it shall be. Be not a stretcher forth of the hands to receive and a drawer of them back to give. If you have anything, through your hands you shall give ransom for your sins. Do not hesitate to give, nor complain when you give; for you shall know who is the good repayer of the hire. Do not turn away from him who is in want; rather, share all things with your brother, and do not say that they are your own. For if you are partakers in that which is immortal, how much more in things which are mortal? Do not remove your hand from your son or daughter; rather, teach them the fear of God from their youth. Do not enjoin anything in your bitterness upon your bondman or maidservant, who hope in the same God, lest ever they shall fear not God who is over both; for he comes not to call according to the outward appearance, but to them whom the Spirit has prepared. And you bondmen shall be subject to your masters as to a type of God, in modesty and fear. You shall hate all hypocrisy and everything which is not pleasing to the Lord. Do not in any way forsake the commandments of the Lord; but keep what you have received, neither adding thereto nor taking away therefrom. In the church you shall acknowledge your transgressions, and you shall not come near for your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life.
 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Staff member
Topical Studies Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
24,036
Gender
Male
Chapter 5. The Way of Death. And the way of death is this: First of all it is evil and accursed: murders, adultery, lust, fornication, thefts, idolatries, magic arts, witchcrafts, rape, false witness, hypocrisy, double-heartedness, deceit, haughtiness, depravity, self-will, greediness, filthy talking, jealousy, over-confidence, loftiness, boastfulness; persecutors of the good, hating truth, loving a lie, not knowing a reward for righteousness, not cleaving to good nor to righteous judgment, watching not for that which is good, but for that which is evil; from whom meekness and endurance are far, loving vanities, pursuing revenge, not pitying a poor man, not laboring for the afflicted, not knowing Him Who made them, murderers of children, destroyers of the handiwork of God, turning away from him who is in want, afflicting him who is distressed, advocates of the rich, lawless judges of the poor, utter sinners. Be delivered, children, from all these.
 

wondering

Supporter
Joined
Dec 26, 2015
Messages
14,917
Gender
Female
Awesome.

Direct disciples of John and Paul would be great.


Also, is their anything in the Didache about the Sabbath.


Many people call the Sabbath the “Lords Day”.

The Lord’s Day is His Day of Resurrection.

The first day of the week.


One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
Romans 14:5



JLB
I know you like to read and study and thought the following would be good.
It speaks about the Lord's Day and also Chapter 14 of the Didache, which mentions the Lord's Day. It also goes into the history of how the day changed from Saturday to Sunday. I'll be reading it myself after printing it out.




a different view:




and more....



And, the actual Didache for anyone interested

 

JLB

Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life
Staff member
Topical Studies Moderator
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
24,036
Gender
Male
I didn’t read anything in these first five chapters, which covered many things, and seem to be prioritized by importance, about a requirement to observe the Sabbath (especially as required by the law).


JLB
 

Help support cf.net

Total amount
$1,580.00
Goal
$5,080.00
Top