Signs of the times.

[humble soul]

To me, it screams the further denigration of our countries traditional core values on the family unit

Your view must reflect so many Christians in America.
I don't like same sex marriage either. But I respect fidelity in a relationship. And that is not confined to traditional heterosexual marriages. My views on gays is evolving. I don't think an all or nothing approach towards them is constructive. In some cases they are degrading the morals of a future society. But not all.
Likewise abortion. An all or nothing approach is neither practical nor compassionate in my opinion. I realise such a view can be controversial on a Christian forum. I do agonise over these issues. Some people live promiscuous lives knowing that abortion is an easy option. That's wrong of course. Educate these people. Don't make it too easy for them, if at all possible.
Anyway, "family values" is such a broad term. I see both sides of politics not living up to this. To my way of thinking, we need to examine our own consciences more deeply, and establish what values are most important to us.

 

[Blade]

Tell me if this does not fit here. I am reading the posts and this song is playing at the same time "Even The Impossible" "Do what only you can do. Move what only you can move. Even the impossible is possible with you." Listen to the song.. praise GOD its perfect timing again.

No matter what we see, its not somethings work out but all and another key words "we know" "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose."

We forget just who our Father is.. OUR FATHER you know ..hello GOD? We are in right standing and we are still here. There is no kind of darkness that can ever over take us. Rub your eyes.. clean them. Ok? Now look who is standing infront of us. Yeah.. Hes always been there. He never left. So no matter what we see hear feel know He is for us never against us and He is the vine we are the branches. He covers us..Psa 91 read it again for ALL of it was written just for you! For ever one of His people His Children. So no matter what it looks like feels like rejoice and praise Him.. I have never seen the righteous YOU forsaken.

 

[stovebolts]

Your view must reflect so many Christians in America.
I don't like same sex marriage either. But I respect fidelity in a relationship. And that is not confined to traditional heterosexual marriages. My views on gays is evolving. I don't think an all or nothing approach towards them is constructive. In some cases they are degrading the morals of a future society. But not all.
Likewise abortion. An all or nothing approach is neither practical nor compassionate in my opinion. I realise such a view can be controversial on a Christian forum. I do agonise over these issues. Some people live promiscuous lives knowing that abortion is an easy option. That's wrong of course. Educate these people. Don't make it too easy for them, if at all possible.
Anyway, "family values" is such a broad term. I see both sides of politics not living up to this. To my way of thinking, we need to examine our own consciences more deeply, and establish what values are most important to us.

My son will be 22 soon. He went to school under the Obama Biden era. Those were transforming years in America. The Affordable Care Act was established (which I supported conceptionally) but also gay marriage was solidified. My place of work changed as restrooms for transgenders were required. I was sent to help Steve with an issue, but I found Sarah instead. Talk about an awkward moment as the reality of the bathroom debate became cLear.

No longer were there two genders and there was even a catagory for transmamal. In the high schools it was suddenly cool to be transsexual as girls kissed other girls in the hallway and boys held hands in the hallways. I’ve heard this not only from my son, but other teens during those years, We have a good friend who is a high school teacher in Warren Mi and he sees it daily. They have even had to discuss it during class. And yes, he had a gal who identified as transmamal which may be a softer way of saying beastiality.

The teen years are confusing enough and as I related to JLB earlier, social structure within a teens world dictates the current morals and values of our teens. We literally have teens raising teens. I was fortunate enough to understand this and made a huge effort to stay in my sons life. jasonc was a huge help and support for me during those years. He used to say I was living vicariously through my son lol.

My point is this. Teens naturally rebel againet their parents as they discover who they really are. They know us well enough to passify us as they conform to their peers social structure. And I would add that teens become sexually active. Its a hormone thing. You see, the perfect storm has been created to promote a skewed sexual identity. Sex feels good, regardless if it’s heterosexual or homosexual. If it feels good, it must not be bad not to mention being bisexual is a form of rebellion against the parents and it’s the hottest trend that “all the kids are doing”.

This mentality was rampant in our middle schools and our high school and took its toll on many families.

while I’m not up for debate on people born as homosexuals, I will say the repercussions of the Obama , Biden era had a huge negative ripple effect to our teens during those years. We had four years of reprieve under President Trump and it appears Biden isn’t wasting anytime trying to play catch-up for the last for years his agenda lost ground.

The children of today will eventually run our country and the politics of the Biden administration in regard to abortion and marriage / sexual identity is shaping that future. Just as Trumps words had an impact on our Nation, Bidens words also make an impact on our nation, either intentionally, or unintentionally. When Biden hired a transgender as part of his cabinet, make no mistake what his agenda is.

 

[humble soul]

My son will be 22 soon. He went to school under the Obama Biden era. Those were transforming years in America. The Affordable Care Act was established (which I supported conceptionally) but also gay marriage was solidified. My place of work changed as restrooms for transgenders were required. I was sent to help Steve with an issue, but I found Sarah instead. Talk about an awkward moment as the reality of the bathroom debate became cLear.

No longer were there two genders and there was even a catagory for transmamal. In the high schools it was suddenly cool to be transsexual as girls kissed other girls in the hallway and boys held hands in the hallways. I’ve heard this not only from my son, but other teens during those years, We have a good friend who is a high school teacher in Warren Mi and he sees it daily. They have even had to discuss it during class. And yes, he had a gal who identified as transmamal which may be a softer way of saying beastiality.

The teen years are confusing enough and as I related to JLB earlier, social structure within a teens world dictates the current morals and values of our teens. We literally have teens raising teens. I was fortunate enough to understand this and made a huge effort to stay in my sons life. jasonc was a huge help and support for me during those years. He used to say I was living vicariously through my son lol.

My point is this. Teens naturally rebel againet their parents as they discover who they really are. They know us well enough to passify us as they conform to their peers social structure. And I would add that teens become sexually active. Its a hormone thing. You see, the perfect storm has been created to promote a skewed sexual identity. Sex feels good, regardless if it’s heterosexual or homosexual. If it feels good, it must not be bad not to mention being bisexual is a form of rebellion against the parents and it’s the hottest trend that “all the kids are doing”.

This mentality was rampant in our middle schools and our high school and took its toll on many families.

while I’m not up for debate on people born as homosexuals, I will say the repercussions of the Obama , Biden era had a huge negative ripple effect to our teens during those years. We had four years of reprieve under President Trump and it appears Biden isn’t wasting anytime trying to play catch-up for the last for years his agenda lost ground.

The children of today will eventually run our country and the politics of the Biden administration in regard to abortion and marriage / sexual identity is shaping that future. Just as Trumps words had an impact on our Nation, Bidens words also make an impact on our nation, either intentionally, or unintentionally. When Biden hired a transgender as part of his cabinet, make no mistake what his agenda is.

I appreciate your point of view better and feel more informed. I'm not a fan of transgender. I can sympathise with you more.
It's the culture wars. And believe or not, I'm more on your side than theirs.

 

[Christ_empowered]

i don't know Biden's personal opinion on anything. He's a highly skilled, career politician....his outlook and voting habits have always reflected the norms and values of that given time, within his given demographic.

so...a trans-sexual gets a cabinet pick. i say, ok. i don't think gender non-conformity should be 'dealt with' thru messing with hormones, operations, etc., but...ok. if this person is competent, then awesome. beats a lot of what we (the people) got under Trump. the sex change aspect probably just reflects Biden pandering to the LGBTQI in his base, scores him points as a 'progressive' (he's actually a -very- corporate-friendly, center-right democrat...but OK...), and...

yeah. i don't think Christians, or anyone, should look to elected officials to model morally upright behavior. what's the old phrase...public virtue, private vice? anyway...moving on...

God lifts up and then replaces leaders. Biden is squarely in His hands, and for this season in the usa, we get a career politician (good, I think) who approved legislation that led to mass incarceration (popular at the time...) and the seemingly never.ending.wars "on terror" and "on drugs," etc...


and, as for abortion...what's the point in voting for someone who promises to clamp down on abortion if a) its just political football, and they really just want to give very rich people tax breaks and make life for everyone else unbearable; and b) even if abortion is restricted, it'll just lead to a black market/back alley industry ?

as for gay marriage...well, gay marriage is a result of -the death of marriage as an institution- . 40, 50 years into having 'no fault' divorce laws, marriage is largely viewed as an optional relationship that can be entered and exited whenever one or both people feel like it, and...boom. done. now, the usa divorce rates aren't as bad as they were in the 70s-80s. and, fun historical fact: there was -huge- upswing right after WWII, there was an upswing in both official divorces and cases of 'abandonment' during the Great Depression, and...and...

blah blah blah. I think its like this: the marriage laws, like so much else that both -affects- and -is affected by- society at large, got changed so "the gays" (LOL) could wed because the overall understanding of marriage had already changed (partly because of easy, breezy divorce laws...but then again, those laws reflected what was already building in society...), so its more about "freedom" and "rights" and "feelings/love," not about "marriage as a contract" and/or "marriage is a building block of society," etc.

I don't expect leaders I vote for to be Christians. far from it. Pharaoh was raised up by God...and God also hardened Pharaoh's heart, so He could then show His might vs a vessel of wrath in a high place.

ramble, ramble...as for my 'political beliefs...' im -against- poverty, -against- the death penalty, -against- mass incarceration, i think abortion is generally immoral, same sex unions are not real marriages in God's eyes, divorce is generally best avoided, when possible...

so, I guess I qualify as left leaning Christian? i dunno. I also think...well, we are fallen, sinful creatures, and we live in a fallen, sin stained world. most people are on the broad road, at any given time. social policies, legislation should probably try to maximize freedom and prosperity for the masses, minimize pain and poverty.

 

[jasonc]

the aca makes health care unaffordable

 

[stovebolts]

I appreciate your point of view better and feel more informed. I'm not a fan of transgender. I can sympathise with you more.
It's the culture wars. And believe or not, I'm more on your side than theirs.

What people fail to realize is that the culture wars are being waged in our schools and Christianity is loosing.

Did you know the average middle school child on,y spends about 10 minutes a day with their parents? The vast majority of their day is spent with their peers and social media.

kids raising kids...

 

[stovebolts]

the aca makes health care unaffordable

For many, yes. And Trump made many changes to ease that. I maintain my own healthcare, but I benefit from the aca policies, as do all Americans with pre existing conditions. Prior to the aca, I would not have any healthcare right now because of my pre- existing condition.
For me, the policies within the aca saved my healthcare. Without those policies, I would not currently have healthcare.
There are always two sides of a coin Jason.

 

[jasonc]

For many, yes. And Trump made many changes to ease that. I maintain my own healthcare, but I benefit from the aca policies, as do all Americans with pre existing conditions. Prior to the aca, I would not have any healthcare right now because of my pre- existing condition.
For me, the policies within the aca saved my healthcare. Without those policies, I would not currently have healthcare.
There are always two sides of a coin Jason.

depends my,stare made it illegal to deny on prexisting conditions ,what could is it if they charge 500 a month and have a 10 grand deductible and you have a chronic condition ?

160 a month 15 years ago versus triple that now for me and my wife

 

[WIP]

Yes, and this is the America that President Trump and so many others were working on by bringing back our economy and putting America first. IOW restoring America to its roots, when America set the standard for the rest of the world.

Dad went to work and mom stayed home and a strong family unit built upon Christian values.

This is what we must return to if we are to see America become great again.

A return to Christ Jesus and His kingdom, with righteous leaders and laws that are implemented in our schools.



JLB

I personally think that generally speaking, our need for dual incomes is not driven by need so much as it is driven by desire. When I was a child in the 1970's with six siblings and we lived on one income and this was rather common for most people I knew.

One might say that those were simpler times and incomes went further but I beg to differ. Consider how things have changed.

Today, we desire large expensive homes rather than being content with adequate. The average family home today is nearly double the size it was in the 1970's and the average family size is about half what it was. That change didn't come without an increased cost.

Consider our automobiles. Today, it is only by special order one can obtain a new vehicle without all the bells and whistles. Due to our desire new vehicles now come standard with all the amenities like power windows, power door locks, power seats, air conditioning, hi def stereo systems complete with other media, and so forth. These things have always had a cost.

When I was a child we lived in a small town (pop. ~200). The nearest city (pop. ~8,000) was about 10 miles away. It was only a once a week venture to go to that city to buy our groceries and anything else we needed. The closest major city (pop. ~175,000) was about 60 miles. To drive to that city was a once a year event at best. Today, we don't plan things as much so it's normal to just jump in the car and drive 20 miles to town. My wife and I have thought nothing about driving 60 miles to go to a restaurant for dinner. We are not content to be at home as much and so we do more and spend more time away from home today than we did then and that adds to our costs. It also shows in our vehicle miles. When I was a child the average miles driven was about 12,000 per year. Today, try to find a 1-year old vehicle with fewer than 20,000 miles on the odometer. That adds up to more costs due to our desires.

We are not content today with our home climate. We install air conditioning because we are a little uncomfortable. Truth is, it isn't really a need anywhere in my state of MN. Yes, we may have to sweat sometimes but it's not life threatening. It's a convenience thing. This comes at a cost not only to our pocket book but also our environment.

Look at the extras we think we need today by comparison. ATV's, UTV's, boats (not just simple row boats but fully decked out boats), snowmobiles, cell phones, computers, various forms of entertainment, and so on. These things, if they existed, were not commonly enjoyed by the regular working class but because we desired them we needed more resources.

Edit: For those of us that live in the north where lakes are frozen take a look at the fish houses that are out on the ice. It's rare to see someone on the ice without a shelter and those shelters are not just thrown together scraps of plywood anymore either. Ice Castle fish houses are used a lot around here. They are basically a 16'-24' camper-trailer designed with holes cut in the floor for fishing. They range in price from $20,000.00 - $60,000.00 and up depending on what amenities are inside. And boats. My brother-in-law's fishing boat is a 22' Lund Fiberglass Pro-V powered by a 300hp Mercury outboard. I'm only guessing but it wouldn't surprise me if that boat retails for somewhere around $75,000.00. That's double what I've paid for either of the two homes I've purchased in my lifetime.

Part of the reason for both parents working is also a desire. Women wanted to work and in WWII they got a good taste and liked it.

We have and are becoming more and more driven by worldly desires and that comes at a cost so an average middle income single family income doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[JLB]

I personally think that generally speaking, our need for dual incomes is not driven by need so much as it is driven by desire. When I was a child in the 1970's with six siblings and we lived on one income and this was rather common for most people I knew.

One might say that those were simpler times and incomes went further but I beg to differ. Consider how things have changed.

Today, we desire large expensive homes rather than being content with adequate. The average family home today is nearly double the size it was in the 1970's and the average family size is about half what it was. That change didn't come without an increased cost.

Consider our automobiles. Today, it is only by special order one can obtain a new vehicle without all the bells and whistles. Due to our desire new vehicles now come standard with all the amenities like power windows, power door locks, power seats, air conditioning, hi def stereo systems complete with other media, and so forth. These things have always had a cost.

When I was a child we lived in a small town (pop. ~200). The nearest city (pop. ~8,000) was about 10 miles away. It was only a once a week venture to go to that city to buy our groceries and anything else we needed. The closest major city (pop. ~175,000) was about 60 miles. To drive to that city was a once a year event at best. Today, we don't plan things as much so it's normal to just jump in the car and drive 20 miles to town. My wife and I have thought nothing about driving 60 miles to go to a restaurant for dinner. We are not content to be at home as much and so we do more and spend more time away from home today than we did then and that adds to our costs. It also shows in our vehicle miles. When I was a child the average miles driven was about 12,000 per year. Today, try to find a 1-year old vehicle with fewer than 20,000 miles on the odometer. That adds up to more costs due to our desires.

We are not content today with our home climate. We install air conditioning because we are a little uncomfortable. Truth is, it isn't really a need anywhere in my state of MN. Yes, we may have to sweat sometimes but it's not life threatening. It's a convenience thing. This comes at a cost not only to our pocket book but also our environment.

Look at the extras we think we need today by comparison. ATV's, UTV's, boats (not just simple row boats but fully decked out boats), snowmobiles, cell phones, computers, various forms of entertainment, and so on. These things, if they existed, were not commonly enjoyed by the regular working class but because we desired them we needed more resources.

Edit: For those of us that live in the north where lakes are frozen take a look at the fish houses that are out on the ice. It's rare to see someone on the ice without a shelter and those shelters are not just thrown together scraps of plywood anymore either. Ice Castle fish houses are used a lot around here. They are basically a 16'-24' camper-trailer designed with holes cut in the floor for fishing. They range in price from $20,000.00 - $60,000.00 and up depending on what amenities are inside. And boats. My brother-in-law's fishing boat is a 22' Lund Fiberglass Pro-V powered by a 300hp Mercury outboard. I'm only guessing but it wouldn't surprise me if that boat retails for somewhere around $75,000.00. That's double what I've paid for either of the two homes I've purchased in my lifetime.

Part of the reason for both parents working is also a desire. Women wanted to work and in WWII they got a good taste and liked it.

We have and are becoming more and more driven by worldly desires and that comes at a cost so an average middle income single family income doesn't cut it anymore.

Yes, the return to family values where dad went to work and mom stayed at home with the children, wholesome television, prayer in schools, media that reported the news rather that pushed an ideological agenda, godly men and women in government, conservative values, and an immense fear of the Lord where we honor His teachings. These are just some of the things that made our nation great.


Men were men and women were women.





JLB

 

[jasonc]

tv shows ,honestly were never truly realistic portrayals ,

many actors being sinners were gay that played opposite roles

George takeI,Zulu marries has a kid in the st univese
major bedfellows on I dream if geanie was known to have lived with his gay lover on set

the art community is hedonistic.

that isn't to say that tv shows were sinful to watch but that needs a thread .I catch old tv shows having aldultery and fornicatuon in them

mash and star trek come to mind .

 

[humble soul]

What people fail to realize is that the culture wars are being waged in our schools and Christianity is loosing.

I don't have kids. I can pretty much avoid culture wars unless I seek it. Twitter is one of the main battlegrounds .
I don't wish to see homosexuality promoted or normalised. But to some extent we can't stop society progressing like this.
The challenge will be standing up for what we believe and staying decent at the same time. If we cave in to insults like they use, we lose. I also think a fundamentalist view of the Bible will always trigger their anger. I try to have a wider view of Christianity. Because I think God is bigger than the Bible and literal interpretations.

 

[JLB]